Contracts

[Oldschool]

It seems to me that the whole issue of contracts needs its' own thread.
There already been a lot of water under the bridge but there's plenty more to flow.
Let's start with a basic issue.
Transfer fees.
No problem with players having freedom of movement etc, however!
Affordability is a huge issue for the provinces considering the financial competition they face from French and UK clubs.
Should a club be entitled to some kind of fee for developing players?
Indeed should the Pacific nations be entitled to compensation for other nations 'stealing' their potential internationals?

[COYBIB]

From a purely Irish perspective, if a province invests 10/15 years in developing a talent through schools, academy, senior team, international team, to whatever level, and those resources are then seen better used elsewhere, that province should be compensated and there should be provisions in the budgets for that.

If we're sending 3 or 4 international quality players off to other provinces to keep them in the country, get them game time and for the good of "team Ireland", then at least let there be enough compensation to sign one top quality NIQ.

An internal transfer payment system of sorts.

[neilinboston]

From a purely Irish perspective, if a province invests 10/15 years in developing a talent through schools, academy, senior team, international team, to whatever level, and those resources are then seen better used elsewhere, that province should be compensated and there should be provisions in the budgets for that.

If we're sending 3 or 4 international quality players off to other provinces to keep them in the country, get them game time and for the good of "team Ireland", then at least let there be enough compensation to sign one top quality NIQ.

An internal transfer payment system of sorts.

Like Fardy? Or Lowe?

[COYBIB]

Well the fact that virtually our whole squad is home produced and mostly recent academy graduates, and the fact that we have had very, very few high cost imports for several years, we've done pretty well with those two, but even having said that, I don't think Fardy or Lowe command serious coin, just because they're playing well for us, would they be more expensive than the likes of Douglas and Kirchner? I don't think so.

No I'm talking established world class internationals that are out of our reach that end up in England or France, like a Jean DeVilliers or Doug Howlett, world class players in their prime.

Even when we did make amazing signings such as Brad Thorn he was on a few months contract and almost 40, Rocky Elsom came as an international player, but didn't come as a massive name and nobody could have expected how well he would turn out, same with Nacewa and Contepomi, they made their name at Leinster more than being signed as such.

[mildlyinterested]

Cronin's contract is one to watch.

[mildlyinterested]

Ruddick signed a 2 yr deal accordibg to indo and

" Leinster are believed to be on track to completing the majority of their business early"

[curates_egg]

Cronin's contract is one to watch.

Is that reason why he was bizarrely overlooked from the Irish squad in November?
I really hope we don't lose nugget. I imagine his eye-catching style of play means he has offers from across the water though.

[molloyjh]

Why do some people talk about players like they are an inanimate commodity? Teams don't "send" players anywhere. Player choose to move for their own reasons. Should an ex-employer of mine be compensated for my development during my time there? Should Trinity be compensated for my degree by all future employers?

Teams develop players for themselves and get their monies worth while the player is there. The player is fully entitled to go elsewhere should they want to though. There really isn't any more to it than that.

[OSS]

Why do some people talk about players like they are an inanimate commodity? Teams don't "send" players anywhere. Player choose to move for their own reasons. Should an ex-employer of mine be compensated for my development during my time there? Should Trinity be compensated for my degree by all future employers?

Teams develop players for themselves and get their monies worth while the player is there. The player is fully entitled to go elsewhere should they want to though. There really isn't any more to it than that.

Trinity was paid handsomely for your degree mainly by the Tax paying public (making assumptions on your age here) and you in turn will help pay for the next generation of education.

So should it be the taxpayer who is at least partially refunded for any development done by schools as surely the capitation (?) for every 2nd level student funds a decent amount of their development?

[Ruckedtobits]

Cronin's contract is one to watch.

Totally agree but have been rationalising his omission (not exclusion) as being a matter of Joe taking the opportunity to assess Herring and Treacy in depth over the longest Camp that he could guarantee both players international caps.

IMO, Best is well ahead of all competition at present. Scannell appears a potential replacement and Nugget has demonstrated a unique skill-set that offer a unique attacking ability which can turn a game, particularly against tiring opponents. Joe knows what Nugget brings to the party, phenomenal carrying and running coupled with occasionally wayward throwing. His familiarity with the strengths of our international Props is also an added bonus.

For Nugget, the continued prospect of a Squad place through to the next World Cup alongside a place in every Leinster Squad over the next 2 / 3 years should be sufficient to convince him to re-sign his Provincial contract.

I certainly hope so. For him to up stakes and go elsewhere whilst not fundamentally curing his throwing flaws, would be a huge career risk......and one he doesn't need to take at this point.

[Ruckedtobits]

Cronin's contract is one to watch.

Totally agree but have been rationalising his omission (not exclusion) as being a matter of Joe taking the opportunity to assess Herring and Treacy in depth over the longest Camp that he could guarantee both players international caps.

IMO, Best is well ahead of all competition at present. Scannell appears a potential replacement and Nugget has demonstrated a unique skill-set that offer a unique attacking ability which can turn a game, particularly against tiring opponents. Joe knows what Nugget brings to the party, phenomenal carrying and running coupled with occasionally wayward throwing. His familiarity with the strengths of our international Props is also an added bonus.

For Nugget, the continued prospect of a Squad place through to the next World Cup alongside a place in every Leinster Squad over the next 2 / 3 years should be sufficient to convince him to re-sign his Provincial contract.

I certainly hope so. For him to up stakes and go elsewhere whilst not fundamentally curing his throwing flaws, would be a huge career risk......and one he doesn't need to take at this point.

[molloyjh]

Trinity was paid handsomely for your degree mainly by the Tax paying public (making assumptions on your age here) and you in turn will help pay for the next generation of education.

So should it be the taxpayer who is at least partially refunded for any development done by schools as surely the capitation (?) for every 2nd level student funds a decent amount of their development?

Well, I paid for my own education so maybe it's a bad example. An employer is a far more relevant one anyway. And if I gain a lot of experience from an employer they get no compensation from a new employer if I move. They may, depending on contracts etc, get compensation from me having invested in my development (e.g. paid for a course on the agreement that I remain in place for a certain time period, but I leave before that period ends) but they will never get compensation from the new employer.

Leinster is no different.

[neilinboston]

Trinity was paid handsomely for your degree mainly by the Tax paying public (making assumptions on your age here) and you in turn will help pay for the next generation of education.

So should it be the taxpayer who is at least partially refunded for any development done by schools as surely the capitation (?) for every 2nd level student funds a decent amount of their development?

Well, I paid for my own education so maybe it's a bad example. An employer is a far more relevant one anyway. And if I gain a lot of experience from an employer they get no compensation from a new employer if I move. They may, depending on contracts etc, get compensation from me having invested in my development (e.g. paid for a course on the agreement that I remain in place for a certain time period, but I leave before that period ends) but they will never get compensation from the new employer.

Leinster is no different.

Agreed. We also overlook that the likes of Conway wanted the move. Moved to get first team Rugby faster having felt he was being overlooked at Leinster a little. He’d be a nailed on starter for us now but it was still his choice. Similarly jordi may want to be a starter and pack leader, he’s being overtaken by vdf and leavy with deegan coming up fast.

These players aren’t being stolen from us, they’re making career moves.

If we can win without big star imports I’d prefer to do it that way.
How much we pay them is irrelevant- cj vdl was paid a lot of money to make use of our podiatrists, isa would have come here on a small contract initially.

Besides we have big star internationals, sob Healy, heaslip, furlong, Sexton, Kearney would all be in contention for any team (or would have been a few years ago). And we can say we grew up with them, played against them, watched them play as kids, watched them learn as pros, grew up watching them as our role models.
Or we could bring in a completely uninterested Kane Douglas on a big contract because he’s shiny and talks funny.

[Dexter]

Trinity was paid handsomely for your degree mainly by the Tax paying public (making assumptions on your age here) and you in turn will help pay for the next generation of education.

So should it be the taxpayer who is at least partially refunded for any development done by schools as surely the capitation (?) for every 2nd level student funds a decent amount of their development?

Well, I paid for my own education so maybe it's a bad example. An employer is a far more relevant one anyway. And if I gain a lot of experience from an employer they get no compensation from a new employer if I move. They may, depending on contracts etc, get compensation from me having invested in my development (e.g. paid for a course on the agreement that I remain in place for a certain time period, but I leave before that period ends) but they will never get compensation from the new employer.

Leinster is no different.

Agreed. We also overlook that the likes of Conway wanted the move. Moved to get first team Rugby faster having felt he was being overlooked at Leinster a little. He’d be a nailed on starter for us now but it was still his choice. Similarly jordi may want to be a starter and pack leader, he’s being overtaken by vdf and leavy with deegan coming up fast.

These players aren’t being stolen from us, they’re making career moves.

If we can win without big star imports I’d prefer to do it that way.
How much we pay them is irrelevant- cj vdl was paid a lot of money to make use of our podiatrists, isa would have come here on a small contract initially.

Besides we have big star internationals, sob Healy, heaslip, furlong, Sexton, Kearney would all be in contention for any team (or would have been a few years ago). And we can say we grew up with them, played against them, watched them play as kids, watched them learn as pros, grew up watching them as our role models.
Or we could bring in a completely uninterested Kane Douglas on a big contract because he’s shiny and talks funny.

Ah no, sure Conway always loved Munster, he's a self confessed Lunster.....

[cormac]

Loughman has signed a 3 month deal with Munster

[Oldschool]

Why do some people talk about players like they are an inanimate commodity? Teams don't "send" players anywhere. Player choose to move for their own reasons. Should an ex-employer of mine be compensated for my development during my time there? Should Trinity be compensated for my degree by all future employers?

Teams develop players for themselves and get their monies worth while the player is there. The player is fully entitled to go elsewhere should they want to though. There really isn't any more to it than that.

The players (employees) are the product whereas most employees 'only' contribute to the ultimate sale of the product.

[cormac]

New two-year deal for Ringer

http://www.the42.ie/garry-ringrose-cont ... tter_short

[paddyor]

New two-year deal for Ringer

http://www.the42.ie/garry-ringrose-cont ... tter_short

Woo hoo

[neilinboston]

New two-year deal for Ringer

http://www.the42.ie/garry-ringrose-cont ... tter_short

Yes!

[RoboProp]

Trinity was paid handsomely for your degree mainly by the Tax paying public (making assumptions on your age here) and you in turn will help pay for the next generation of education.

So should it be the taxpayer who is at least partially refunded for any development done by schools as surely the capitation (?) for every 2nd level student funds a decent amount of their development?

Well, I paid for my own education so maybe it's a bad example. An employer is a far more relevant one anyway. And if I gain a lot of experience from an employer they get no compensation from a new employer if I move. They may, depending on contracts etc, get compensation from me having invested in my development (e.g. paid for a course on the agreement that I remain in place for a certain time period, but I leave before that period ends) but they will never get compensation from the new employer.

Leinster is no different.

Stop me if you've heard this one before, how do you know if someone is a vegan?
They tell you.