Leinster vs Exeter Sat 16-12-17@3.15PM - BT Sport

[Blue not red blood]

That was as tough a game physically I have been at since we played Montferrand in Donnybrook.
Think whichever team recovers the most and can bring in fresh legs could win the game handy.
It is a huge ask for the same 15 to start again.
Would like to think that our strength in depth will be the difference.
Don't see this game as the given many are calling it

[Oldschool]

That was as tough a game physically I have been at since we played Montferrand in Donnybrook.
Think whichever team recovers the most and can bring in fresh legs could win the game handy.
It is a huge ask for the same 15 to start again.
Would like to think that our strength in depth will be the difference.
Don't see this game as the given many are calling it

Exeter have stickability and can be hard to shake off.
Therefore rotation of some of our pack is essential.
It's likely Adam Byrne won't be fit enough to risk.
It's quite possible too, that Sexton may not be able to take the kicks, meaning Isa will start.
So it's the tough call, will the coaches stoop so Lowe as to drop Fergie?
To Fergie's advantage is his exposure to Exeter last weekend.

[ronk]

Lest we forget

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... eport.html

14th December 2013 and taken from the Torygraph for added emphasis, the night of our great horror and a reminder of how sport laughs at predictions.

Just compare the euphoria that was around after the first leg in Franklin Gardens, here's the Leinster Rugby match report of 7th Dec 2013:

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/report/nor ... -leinster/

So many comparables and parallels, but lightening can strike twice. So I will keep reminding myself, we must win this match first, the manner is unimportant. As Gervaise reminded everybody in his IT piece today, only 4 out of 10 fixtures last year were back-to-back victories. They are as rare as Hen's Teeth.

Seriously rtb - do 40% of hen's have teeth?

If you flipped a coin 50% would be the expected result. Does this even count as rare?

[hugonaut]

Can't see Ferg getting dropped after that performance, nor should he be. He put in a cracking game.

Dropping a player after he has played indisputably well is a risky decision – you can completely demotivate him on the basis of one selection. "The coach just doesn't rate me" or "What more can I do?" or "My face doesn't fit" or "My best isn't good enough" or "He's just looking for a reason to drop me" or "It's a personality clash and not about rugby".

I understand that squad rotation is part of the game, but the old fashioned logic of re-picking the players who played well for you holds true in 90% of the cases when it's a straight A or B selection.

[wixfjord]

I think it's more likely we'll see Byrne come in rather than Lowe. As I say I think people are reading a bit much into Lowe coming into the squad for an injured Ruddock. If Ruddock weren't injured would be even be an option?
Can't see us dropping JGP and we're certainly not going to drop Fardy, unless injured.

[curates_egg]

I think it's more likely we'll see Byrne come in rather than Lowe. As I say I think people are reading a bit much into Lowe coming into the squad for an injured Ruddock. If Ruddock weren't injured would be even be an option?
Can't see us dropping JGP and we're certainly not going to drop Fardy, unless injured.

Somebody said above that Fardy - who has an Irish born kid - is no longer considered to be fahrden under dem rooeles. Can someone confirm this?
If so, there was a lot of bluster and brouhaha in the anti-Leinster meeja about nothing...and we could have all three of them in our squad.

That said, as hugo points out, I don't see how you can drop Ferg after that performance. Particularly not for a player with defensive issues or a guy who is only getting to grips with the system in a game in which defense will again be hugely important.
I also don't see how you can drop Isa - not because he is playing well on the wing anymore, but because he is our captain and the guy who takes the kicks with Sexton can't...which is likely to be the case. If only we had Cooney back...

[johng]

We will see on Friday if Lowe is selected.

If Nick McCarthy is on the bench then one view is correct. If its jgp then the other one is correct.

[riocard911]

Could Ferg could not take over the kicking, if needs be? Ditto Ringer?

[wixfjord]

Surely Leinster would have clarified that Lowe issue by now if it weren't true? They've had plenty of opportunities to do so.

[Raydollard]

Though he will always be one of my favorite players, Ferguson is past it. He was cr@p for three-quarters of the game.

[Raydollard]

Fergus not Ferguson

[harblstuff]

I think it's more likely we'll see Byrne come in rather than Lowe. As I say I think people are reading a bit much into Lowe coming into the squad for an injured Ruddock. If Ruddock weren't injured would be even be an option?
Can't see us dropping JGP and we're certainly not going to drop Fardy, unless injured.

Somebody said above that Fardy - who has an Irish born kid - is no longer considered to be fahrden under dem rooeles. Can someone confirm this?
If so, there was a lot of bluster and brouhaha in the anti-Leinster meeja about nothing...and we could have all three of them in our squad.

http://rugbylaw.blogspot.ie/2011/04/kol ... ayers.html

However, there may, for some players, now be another angle. In the recent Zambrano case, the ECJ held that parents of a dependent EU national child are to be given full rights to work in the EU state of which those children are nationals as a consequence of the rights of that EU national child. So, the non-EU, non-Kolpak parents of an Irish child could work in Ireland with no restrictions; and, following on other decisions, could move to another EU state to work.

If that's true, then he's no longer a non-Kolpak and would allow Leinster to pick him, Lowe and JGP.

Does anyone have a confirmation?

[desperado]

Fergus not Ferguson

what game were you watching. McFadden had one of his best games in a very long time for Leinster. Certainly not 'cr@p' for 75% of the game - he overran (slightly) 2 garryowens, and pretty much everything else he did was on the money. As Hugo said, it would be hard to drop anyone based on how the team performed. Bomber was also making the point that the group has focussed on not only having a good gameplan but being able to change that if the opposition vary from expected tactics. I'd say the only changes will be injury, or tiredness enforced - depending on how everyone is assessed at the one training session this week (Wed).

[johng]

Surely Leinster would have clarified that Lowe issue by now if it weren't true? They've had plenty of opportunities to do so.

Why would they bother doing that?

[Xanthippe]

Somebody said above that Fardy - who has an Irish born kid - is no longer considered to be fahrden under dem rooeles. Can someone confirm this?
If so, there was a lot of bluster and brouhaha in the anti-Leinster meeja about nothing...and we could have all three of them in our squad.

http://rugbylaw.blogspot.ie/2011/04/kol ... ayers.html

However, there may, for some players, now be another angle. In the recent Zambrano case, the ECJ held that parents of a dependent EU national child are to be given full rights to work in the EU state of which those children are nationals as a consequence of the rights of that EU national child. So, the non-EU, non-Kolpak parents of an Irish child could work in Ireland with no restrictions; and, following on other decisions, could move to another EU state to work.

If that's true, then he's no longer a non-Kolpak and would allow Leinster to pick him, Lowe and JGP.

Does anyone have a confirmation?

Under the Good Friday Agreement and the 19th Amendment to the Constitution the following clause came into effect:

• It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation.

Through this wording anyone who arrived into Ireland and gave birth automatically gained citizen rights for their child and by extension for themselves.

In 2004, through the 27th Amendment to the Constitution (or the Irish Nationality and Citizenship (Amendment) Bill), the Irish government moved to close this loophole by effectively creating different 'classes' of children. The Bill introduced a distinction between 'Irish born' and 'Irish citizen' children. Since then a child born in Ireland is only entitled to become a citizen if, at the time of his/her birth:

• a parent of the child is an Irish citizen
  or
  a parent of the child had three years residency in the State when the child was born
  or
  the child was born in Ireland and is stateless (where it's impossible for the child to become a citizen of the country of birth of either parent)

Scott Fardy has an Irish born but not Irish citizen child so does not qualify under the Zambrano ruling therefore we can't play Frady, Lowe and JGP in the same team.

[curates_egg]

Somebody said above that Fardy - who has an Irish born kid - is no longer considered to be fahrden under dem rooeles. Can someone confirm this?
If so, there was a lot of bluster and brouhaha in the anti-Leinster meeja about nothing...and we could have all three of them in our squad.

http://rugbylaw.blogspot.ie/2011/04/kol ... ayers.html

However, there may, for some players, now be another angle. In the recent Zambrano case, the ECJ held that parents of a dependent EU national child are to be given full rights to work in the EU state of which those children are nationals as a consequence of the rights of that EU national child. So, the non-EU, non-Kolpak parents of an Irish child could work in Ireland with no restrictions; and, following on other decisions, could move to another EU state to work.

If that's true, then he's no longer a non-Kolpak and would allow Leinster to pick him, Lowe and JGP.

Does anyone have a confirmation?

Under the Good Friday Agreement and the 19th Amendment to the Constitution the following clause came into effect:

• It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation.

Through this wording anyone who arrived into Ireland and gave birth automatically gained citizen rights for their child and by extension for themselves.

In 2004, through the 27th Amendment to the Constitution (or the Irish Nationality and Citizenship (Amendment) Bill), the Irish government moved to close this loophole by effectively creating different 'classes' of children. The Bill introduced a distinction between 'Irish born' and 'Irish citizen' children. Since then a child born in Ireland is only entitled to become a citizen if, at the time of his/her birth:

• a parent of the child is an Irish citizen
  or
  a parent of the child had three years residency in the State when the child was born
  or
  the child was born in Ireland and is stateless (where it's impossible for the child to become a citizen of the country of birth of either parent)

Scott Fardy has an Irish born but not Irish citizen child so does not qualify under the Zambrano ruling therefore we can't play Frady, Lowe and JGP in the same team.

Frady out

Thanks Xan. I remember that 'keep the Nigerians out' referendum now. That settles it so.

[johng]

That seems fairly definitive. I still want to see what happens with selection though. There could be some other factor that we don't know about. Unlikely as that may be.

[paddyor]

But Isa's visa issues indicate you don't have to be a citizen or even a passport holder for the ruling to not apply.......

[mildlyinterested]

Sexton missing from training pics today, while Nacewa looked like he sat out.

[Barry]

Somebody said above that Fardy - who has an Irish born kid - is no longer considered to be fahrden under dem rooeles. Can someone confirm this?
If so, there was a lot of bluster and brouhaha in the anti-Leinster meeja about nothing...and we could have all three of them in our squad.

http://rugbylaw.blogspot.ie/2011/04/kol ... ayers.html

However, there may, for some players, now be another angle. In the recent Zambrano case, the ECJ held that parents of a dependent EU national child are to be given full rights to work in the EU state of which those children are nationals as a consequence of the rights of that EU national child. So, the non-EU, non-Kolpak parents of an Irish child could work in Ireland with no restrictions; and, following on other decisions, could move to another EU state to work.

If that's true, then he's no longer a non-Kolpak and would allow Leinster to pick him, Lowe and JGP.

Does anyone have a confirmation?

Under the Good Friday Agreement and the 19th Amendment to the Constitution the following clause came into effect:

• It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation.

Through this wording anyone who arrived into Ireland and gave birth automatically gained citizen rights for their child and by extension for themselves.

In 2004, through the 27th Amendment to the Constitution (or the Irish Nationality and Citizenship (Amendment) Bill), the Irish government moved to close this loophole by effectively creating different 'classes' of children. The Bill introduced a distinction between 'Irish born' and 'Irish citizen' children. Since then a child born in Ireland is only entitled to become a citizen if, at the time of his/her birth:

• a parent of the child is an Irish citizen
  or
  a parent of the child had three years residency in the State when the child was born
  or
  the child was born in Ireland and is stateless (where it's impossible for the child to become a citizen of the country of birth of either parent)

Scott Fardy has an Irish born but not Irish citizen child so does not qualify under the Zambrano ruling therefore we can't play Frady, Lowe and JGP in the same team.

Frady out

Thanks Xan. I remember that 'keep the Nigerians out' referendum now. That settles it so.

based on normal rates, that's about 50k's worth of legal advice - hope this forum has deep pockets.