Munster v Leinster St Stephen's Day 3.15 TG4 & Sky Sports

[wixfjord]

Feels a long way away, and am sure the lads will have a bit of time off now, but El Clasico is 8 days away.

I'd imagine that, like last year, we'll see a mix and match across the seasonal interpros, with a few guys rested. Munster will likely play all their big guns in this one, so we'll be up against it.

Unlike last year though, we should be in a better position to cope.

The side last year was:
15. Zane Kirchner 14. Isa Nacewa (captain) 13. Rory O’Loughlin 12. Robbie Henshaw 11. Barry Daly 10. Ross Byrne 9. Jamison Gibson-Park 1. Cian Healy 2. James Tracy 3. Tadhg Furlong 4. Ross Molony 5. Mike McCarthy 6. Rhys Ruddock 7. Dan Leavy 8. Jack Conan Replacements: 16. Richardt Strauss 17. Peter Dooley 18. Michael Bent 19. Ian Nagle 20. Dominic Ryan 21. Charlie Rock 22. Noel Reid 23. Tom Daly

This time around, I'd like to see something like
McGrath, Tracy, Bent, Fardy, Ryan, VDF, Leavy, Murphy, McGrath, Byrne, Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose, MCF, RK
Dooley, Byrne, Porter, Molony, Deegan, JGP, Reid, ROL

Nice and strong pack with good leadership all around. We may see a bit of rotation at centre and maybe A Byrne coming in, but MCF is in good form and normally relishes these games.

The likes of JGP, A Byrne, ROL etc should come back in with Toner, Sexton, SOB, Cronin, Isa for Conn.

Would have no issue with a completely different side, but one thing I would really, really not like is us to play JGP and Byrne again in Thomond. That didn't work at all last year and it's not a partnership I like when they're under pressure.

Plus McGrath will want to test himself against Murray.

[curates_egg]

This time around, I'd like to see something like
McGrath, Tracy, Bent, Fardy, Ryan, VDF, Leavy, Murphy, McGrath, Byrne, Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose, MCF, RK
Dooley, Byrne, Porter, Molony, Deegan, JGP, Reid, ROL

The main fixture for us over the coming 3 games is the Ulster 8 pointer. As such, I would wonder if we will really send a team that strong to Thomond, despite all the tradition and their Pashun.
Of that selection, Fardy needs a break and I wouldn't risk Ryan. Byrne probably shouldn't be risked (but probably will). I very much doubt we will see both of Hen-rose. Probably Henshaw rested. While this is clearly more a game for McGrath, I wonder will he start due to the amount of minutes he has over the last 3 weeks.
JGP, Lowe and Fardy definitely can't be in the matchday 23 anyway. My guess would be more something like:
McGrath, Tracy, Bent, Toner, Kearney/Molony, Murphy, Leavy, Deegan, JGP, Byrne (although he should be rested), Lowe, Reid, Ringrose, MCF, RK

[CiaranIrl]

Surely they can't play Ross Byrne after the collision he took. Cathal Marsh every day for me. He's actually impressed every time he's come on. Deserves a shot here.

McGrath, Tracy, Porter, Toner, Molony, Murphy, Leavy, Deegan, JGP, Marsh, Lowe, Reid, Ringrose, Adam Byrne, Larmour

Strauss, Byrne, Bent, Josh Murphy, Doris, McCarthy, O'Loughlin, Dave Kearney

I'd like to see something like that personally

[fourthirtythree]

Surely they can't play Ross Byrne after the collision he took. Cathal Marsh every day for me. He's actually impressed every time he's come on. Deserves a shot here.

McGrath, Tracy, Porter, Toner, Molony, Murphy, Leavy, Deegan, JGP, Marsh, Lowe, Reid, Ringrose, Adam Byrne, Larmour

Strauss, Byrne, Bent, Josh Murphy, Doris, McCarthy, O'Loughlin, Dave Kearney

I'd like to see something like that personally

I imagine that, as with last year, we will be without outhalves: Carberry from Ireland injury, Sexton despite not at all failing his HIA or recovering for nebulous reasons, Ross Byrne despite definitely not ever failing his HIA cough something something, so Nacewa will be our sub outhalf and this time it's Marsh as last man standing.

We have a comparatively shitty fixture scheduling in the conferences with home and away etc compared to Ulster so we owe A conference absolutely nothing and will definitely target Ulster at home because it is an 8 pointer and Connacht because it is a home match.

As has happened before I can see a shadow team out there for Munster on Stephen's day hoping to win but with an LBP as a realistic target.

[BlueBlue]

JGP, Lowe and Fardy definitely can't be in the matchday 23 anyway.

I presume you are saying this due to the ' only 2 non-European rule' , if so, that does not apply to Pro14 rules, only Champions Cup rules, so we can play them if that is our desire.

[Ruckedtobits]

Wouldn't have Luke McGrath near this fixture and would pick Fardy, Lowe and JGP to let them see that Irish rugby is about more than us and that we must win in Thomond. No Sexton or Henshaw, but lots more Ringrose and R Kearney. Deegan by preference and James Ryan to start (time to take off the cotton wool and encourage both to test themselves locally). A Byrne and Lowe as wingers, should give encouragement to anybody in mid-field.

Finally let's give Dooley/ Ed Byrne and Porter / Bent starts just to show Munster where the standard of Irish props really starts and also give Cian, Jack & Tadgh some more down time.

Don't waste frontliners on this emotional limbo, target Ulster and lets be smart.

[cormac]

JGP, Lowe and Fardy definitely can't be in the matchday 23 anyway.

I presume you are saying this due to the ' only 2 non-European rule' , if so, that does not apply to Pro14 rules, only Champions Cup rules, so we can play them if that is our desire.

The rule also applies to the Pro14.

Rule 6.2 from the link below.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/competition-rules/

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Could someone smarter and more informed than me set up a thread about the eligibility stuff and sticky it at the top of this section? It's coming up in most threads now and it's the same stuff over and over.

If I remember correctly the selections last year seemed to be stacked in favour of the home teams so that each province could come away with at least one win and be reasonably content with everything. Thing is, our second string is very strong and I'd still expect a lot from us.

I hope Ross Byrne makes it and realistically we need him so think he'll be given every chance. Don't forget that there's a longer recovery period than usual, ten days is a long time to get him set. He wasn't great on Saturday but as I said in the match thread I'd give him a pass because of the "injury". He's got to be fairly close to making the Ireland squad though, partly because of his recent form and partly because of a lack of options, and a big performance in Thomond might just see him jump the queue.

[johng]

If I remember correctly the selections last year seemed to be stacked in favour of the home teams so that each province could come away with at least one win and be reasonably content with everything. Thing is, our second string is very strong and I'd still expect a lot from us.

As has been pointed out. Last Year we didn't have conferences. While it would be nice to get 4 points from Thomond it is much more important that we beat Ulster (and Scarlets twice in Feb)

[curates_egg]

I hope Ross Byrne makes it and realistically we need him so think he'll be given every chance. Don't forget that there's a longer recovery period than usual, ten days is a long time to get him set. He wasn't great on Saturday but as I said in the match thread I'd give him a pass because of the "injury". He's got to be fairly close to making the Ireland squad though, partly because of his recent form and partly because of a lack of options, and a big performance in Thomond might just see him jump the queue.

Keatley's in the finest run of form of his professional life right now.

If we get 8 out of the 9 points on offer vs Ulster and a win against Connacht, it will have been a good set of interpros for us.
I wouldn't risk anyone for this game. Rest Healy, Furlong, Fardy, SOB, Conan, McGrath, Byrne, Sexton, Henshaw. We'll still have a decent side that will have a point to prove.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

If I remember correctly the selections last year seemed to be stacked in favour of the home teams so that each province could come away with at least one win and be reasonably content with everything. Thing is, our second string is very strong and I'd still expect a lot from us.

As has been pointed out. Last Year we didn't have conferences. While it would be nice to get 4 points from Thomond it is much more important that we beat Ulster (and Scarlets twice in Feb)

It just seemed like an IRFU decision to do that last year so I expect the same again.

[paddyor]

If I remember correctly the selections last year seemed to be stacked in favour of the home teams so that each province could come away with at least one win and be reasonably content with everything. Thing is, our second string is very strong and I'd still expect a lot from us.

As has been pointed out. Last Year we didn't have conferences. While it would be nice to get 4 points from Thomond it is much more important that we beat Ulster (and Scarlets twice in Feb)

I think the importance is a little overstated. The conference games are a good way to deny teams points but if you win less than half your intra conference games it still counts.

[johng]

If I remember correctly the selections last year seemed to be stacked in favour of the home teams so that each province could come away with at least one win and be reasonably content with everything. Thing is, our second string is very strong and I'd still expect a lot from us.

As has been pointed out. Last Year we didn't have conferences. While it would be nice to get 4 points from Thomond it is much more important that we beat Ulster (and Scarlets twice in Feb)

I think the importance is a little overstated. The conference games are a good way to deny teams points but if you win less than half your intra conference games it still counts.

Of course. But beating Scarlets home and away are the most important league games remaining with Ulster third.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

It'll be interesting to see how Connacht do. They won't be affected as much and didn't have the tough games that the other provinces had.

[CiaranIrl]

I hope Ross Byrne makes it and realistically we need him so think he'll be given every chance. Don't forget that there's a longer recovery period than usual, ten days is a long time to get him set. He wasn't great on Saturday but as I said in the match thread I'd give him a pass because of the "injury". He's got to be fairly close to making the Ireland squad though, partly because of his recent form and partly because of a lack of options, and a big performance in Thomond might just see him jump the queue.

Keatley's in the finest run of form of his professional life right now.

If we get 8 out of the 9 points on offer vs Ulster and a win against Connacht, it will have been a good set of interpros for us.
I wouldn't risk anyone for this game. Rest Healy, Furlong, Fardy, SOB, Conan, McGrath, Byrne, Sexton, Henshaw. We'll still have a decent side that will have a point to prove.

I'd add Rob Kearney to that list as well. He's been outstanding since coming back from injury - for Ireland and for us. I'd even give McFadden & Nacewa Christmas off after their efforta the last couple of weeks. We have more than enough to make a backline out of Lowe, Larmour, Adam Byrne, Noel Reid, O'Loughlin, Dave Kearney. Maybe give Ringrose the extra gametime and play him though. A back three of Lowe, Byrne and Larmour is far from a step down!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That reminds me, Larmour's cameo was great on Saturday, did brilliantly to get the intercept and stop a certain try. Think he/we gave a penalty away after that but he really did superbly.

[neiliog93]

So in the event of a (still realistic) worst case scenario, we might be looking at this:

1.E.Byrne 2.Tracy (hasn't started a game in a while) 3.Bent

4.M.Kearney/Fardy 5.Molony

6.Leavy (needs game time) 8.Jordi 7.VDF (needs game time for full fitness)

9.JGP/McCarthy 10.Marsh 12.Reid 13.O'Loughlin 14.Lowe

11.D.Kearney 15.Larmour

16.Strauss 17.Dooley 18.Porter 19.Nagle 20.Deegan 21.McCarthy/Rock 22.Nacewa/Frawley 23.McFadden

Personally, I think given the 10-day break, we'll get Ross Byrne to play 10, and the coaches will probably want to get Lowe some action, which might see JGP drop out in order to allow Fardy to play in a weak position for us (with James Ryan and Toner resting).

[curates_egg]

the coaches will probably want to get Lowe some action, which might see JGP drop out in order to allow Fardy to play in a weak position for us (with James Ryan and Toner resting).

If you are resting any second row, it has to be Fardy. He is already our most important player in the row and he has more minutes than any of the others I would imagine (the statos will confirm)...that is before you factor in his Super Rugby minutes.
I don't see why Toner needs a rest, and why so few people are including him. I would have thought the opposite were the case. Had a quiet November (in terms of minutes played), put in a good shift in Exeter but was hauled ashore early in Landsdowne Road.

[CiaranIrl]

the coaches will probably want to get Lowe some action, which might see JGP drop out in order to allow Fardy to play in a weak position for us (with James Ryan and Toner resting).

If you are resting any second row, it has to be Fardy. He is already our most important player in the row and he has more minutes than any of the others I would imagine (the statos will confirm)...that is before you factor in his Super Rugby minutes.
I don't see why Toner needs a rest, and why so few people are including him. I would have thought the opposite were the case. Had a quiet November (in terms of minutes played), put in a good shift in Exeter but was hauled ashore early in Landsdowne Road.

I totally agree with you about resting Fardy, but more often than not, resting players is about IRFU mandated minutes more than 'who needs a rest'. I guess people instinctively go with that assumption built in. Even so, I'd definitely go for Toner here, and have Moloney with him. I've heard that Ryan is carrying a niggle, so I'd give him time to sort that.

On an unrelated note, shouldn't Porter start with Bent on the bench? Porter made the bench ahead of Bent a few days ago. He didn't get much gametime either, so I'd love to see him get a run out.

[cormac]

Fardy has more minutes for Leinster than Toner this season but not by much and when you include Toner's 175 minutes for Ireland he's well out in front in terms of minutes played. Fardy also gets the benefit of two rest periods before and during the 6N while he also sat out our trip to South Africa. Both Nagle and Molony went off injured in the A game on Friday evening. Hard to say whether they were badly injured. Both managed to walk off unaided.

Anyway I'd imagine we'll see a lot of rotation over the next three games. Wouldn't be surprised if none of the squad started all three games.