Leinster vs Ulster, 06/01/18, 17.35pm (Sky, BBC & TG4)

[curates_egg]

Are you suggesting it is Kiss alone? Maybe he's not a good coach but he was well regarded with Ireland. Gibbes seems to have had no impact.
I don't know enough to have an opinion on where the problem is... I am convinced that your squad is not as bad as they are playing though.

[Cianostays]

Feel sorry for the Ulster fans who deserve an awful lot better but that was awful from Ulster. It's hard to believe that the schools system up there doesn't seem to be producing many forwards at all. It's sad to see an Ulster pack getting beaten up as badly as they have in the last 3 games. I'd say Best and Henderson can't wait to get to Carton House.

Having said all that, some of the tries we scored were a joy to watch. Larmour will steal the headlines but I love the fact that Ferg is playing like it's 6 years ago. Porter's cameo off the bench was heartening and it looks like his shift to tighthead will work out. It certainly will if he continues to hold scrums steady on his side.

It'll be interesting to see what team Glasgow put out next week. Hopefully we'll be able to wrap up a home QF.

[wixfjord]

Giving Diack and Ah You as examples of Ulster's pack sort of makes the point.

Gibbes has to take some flack too. They may not have the players, but the forwards look poorly drilled and devoid of motivation.

[rooster]

Are you suggesting it is Kiss alone? Maybe he's not a good coach but he was well regarded with Ireland. Gibbes seems to have had no impact.
I don't know enough to have an opinion on where the problem is... I am convinced that your squad is not as bad as they are playing though.

He did reasonably well with Ireland for a while but the wheels really fell off against Argentina when they ran hard and fast down the outside channels, same happens now with Ulster and every team is exploiting it even the King's ran in a 4 try bonus against us.
From the bits I have heard he over analyses things and complicates things too much which may be fine if you have a steady team but the way they are changed around defies belief at times even changes from training to actual start of matches.
When a sub comes on it rarely is like for like and there is a wholesale rejig of positions.
Gibbes seems to have had no impact at all which is very strange and you have got to ask the question why, we don't have the best bunch of forwards but at the same time are they really as bad as they appear on the pitch ?
There are a lot of very disillusioned people up here as to the running of the entire show.

[neiliog93]

Yeah, you have to question Kiss. But some of the social media campaign against him, the whole 'FOLK' thing on the forums, is horrible. Much worse than Leinster's worst people with MOC. There's also a fair bit of delusion amongst Ulster fans, 'why wouldn't we beat Leinster?' a common thought. Because Leinster have much better players.

[wixfjord]

Yeah, you have to question Kiss. But some of the social media campaign against him, the whole 'FOLK' thing on the forums, is horrible. Much worse than Leinster's worst people with MOC. There's also a fair bit of delusion amongst Ulster fans, 'why wouldn't we beat Leinster?' a common thought. Because Leinster have much better players.

Is it really any worse than some of the stuff said about MOC?
I'm not so sure. I remember some pretty bad, childish stuff.

I do agree though there's way too much being put on Kiss and not enough on underperforming players with no bite and a forwards coach who is supposed to be one of the best in the NH.

[paddyor]

Ah You, Diack.

I'm not saying they're anywhere close to us, and they've been going backwards, but they're not as bad as they're playing. They were embarrassing last night: optional tackling, dropped balls. Clancy was doing his best to keep them in the game. It's sad to see. Gibbes and Kiss are two good coaches.
They've got injuries and losing Pienaar AND Olding-Jackson seems to have totally disrupted them.
But all that doesn't explain the abject displays they've been putting in lately.
Dundon essentially accused players of not being bothered. Piutau, who is class, seems to not play when they are defending.

No. Just no. This Ulster side isn't a patch on the one that got to the HEC final, Best aside they've no real front row, their locks are young and still developing. Compare this squad to that one.

They're at their level, 3rd in their conference and 2nd in their pool with an outside chance of making the knockouts.

[rooster]

Yeah, you have to question Kiss. But some of the social media campaign against him, the whole 'FOLK' thing on the forums, is horrible. Much worse than Leinster's worst people with MOC. There's also a fair bit of delusion amongst Ulster fans, 'why wouldn't we beat Leinster?' a common thought. Because Leinster have much better players.

Is it really any worse than some of the stuff said about MOC?
I'm not so sure. I remember some pretty bad, childish stuff.

I do agree though there's way too much being put on Kiss and not enough on underperforming players with no bite and a forwards coach who is supposed to be one of the best in the NH.

Since Kiss is the boss the buck stops with him, he should be getting the best out of his squad with the assistance of his other coaches, he is failing miserably and has had no positive effect on the team since he came in

[Logorrhea]

Since Kiss is the boss the buck stops with him, he should be getting the best out of his squad with the assistance of his other coaches, he is failing miserably and has had no positive effect on the team since he came in

Apologies. i know I'm not having to watch my team capitulate week in and week out, and I do sympathise, but thats premier league fan shite. Kiss is a part of it, but if you dont look at the players your just going to be screaming the same shite next year and the year after. Changing the manager may motivate he players to perform better or try harder in the short term, but eventually they will revert to type.

I cant believe how the players are getting such a free ride.

The one of the big things Ive noticed over the past two matches of theirs is the lack of work rate. The number of times I've seen an ulster attacker make a line break and then get isolated. They arent getting isolated because they did something stupid, the ulster players just arent working hard enough to support eachother. They dont really seem to want it and a lot of them are passengers.

Add to that the volume of stupid stupid turnovers and I fail to see what Kiss can really do.

Take yesterdays match for example. Piatau's "tackle" on Daly. What can Kiss do about that? Or the time when Ulsters rolling maul was moving towards our line and the pack mess up the transfer, knock it on and Leinster break. Or what about when Darren Cave gets the ball ripped out in a tackle (error #1), gets up and waves his arms at porter (error #2) and Leinster run the length of the pitch to score. All Kiss can really do is put Cave back on the bench but who can he bring in? Jackson, Olding and Payne are unavailable. Who can Kiss turn to? If he rotates the players out that are making the errors, the second string are just a new level of sh!t.

I'm not a huge fan of Kiss. I wouldnt want him in charge of Leinster or Ireland, but I dont think Ulsters current problems are his doing. The lack of impact from Gibbs confirms that for me too. Gibbs has never had a problem in motivating a pack but even he hasnt made this forward unit perform yet. They need to clean these players out and get some proper pro's in. They also need a bit more luck with their imports.

it’s whether we need to have him in the bench- or can Nick McCarthy do the last 20.

Surely its whether Nick McCarthy can do 70 mins if McGrath is injured early. That would be the more important question. I dont think hes there yet.

[paddyor]

it’s whether we need to have him in the bench- or can Nick McCarthy do the last 20.

Surely its whether Nick McCarthy can do 70 mins if McGrath is injured early. That would be the more important question. I dont think hes there yet.

Spot on. He should get a few starts during the 6 nations.

[CiaranIrl]

it’s whether we need to have him in the bench- or can Nick McCarthy do the last 20.

Surely its whether Nick McCarthy can do 70 mins if McGrath is injured early. That would be the more important question. I dont think hes there yet.

Spot on. He should get a few starts during the 6 nations.

I'm not so sure. We have Scarlets home and away during 6N, and McGrath is unlikely to get gametime with Ireland, so he'll end up playing for us.

[paddyor]

[paddyor]

I'm not so sure. We have Scarlets home and away during 6N, and McGrath is unlikely to get gametime with Ireland, so he'll end up playing for us.

Actually, the only game he's likely to get a start is the KIngs at home. Edinburgh away will be a tough game too.

[ronk]

Since Kiss is the boss the buck stops with him, he should be getting the best out of his squad with the assistance of his other coaches, he is failing miserably and has had no positive effect on the team since he came in

Apologies. i know I'm not having to watch my team capitulate week in and week out, and I do sympathise, but thats premier league fan shite. Kiss is a part of it, but if you dont look at the players your just going to be screaming the same shite next year and the year after. Changing the manager may motivate he players to perform better or try harder in the short term, but eventually they will revert to type.

I cant believe how the players are getting such a free ride.

The one of the big things Ive noticed over the past two matches of theirs is the lack of work rate. The number of times I've seen an ulster attacker make a line break and then get isolated. They arent getting isolated because they did something stupid, the ulster players just arent working hard enough to support eachother. They dont really seem to want it and a lot of them are passengers.

Add to that the volume of stupid stupid turnovers and I fail to see what Kiss can really do.

Take yesterdays match for example. Piatau's "tackle" on Daly. What can Kiss do about that? Or the time when Ulsters rolling maul was moving towards our line and the pack mess up the transfer, knock it on and Leinster break. Or what about when Darren Cave gets the ball ripped out in a tackle (error #1), gets up and waves his arms at porter (error #2) and Leinster run the length of the pitch to score. All Kiss can really do is put Cave back on the bench but who can he bring in? Jackson, Olding and Payne are unavailable. Who can Kiss turn to? If he rotates the players out that are making the errors, the second string are just a new level of sh!t.

I'm not a huge fan of Kiss. I wouldnt want him in charge of Leinster or Ireland, but I dont think Ulsters current problems are his doing. The lack of impact from Gibbs confirms that for me too. Gibbs has never had a problem in motivating a pack but even he hasnt made this forward unit perform yet. They need to clean these players out and get some proper pro's in. They also need a bit more luck with their imports.

Maybe a simpler gameplan. If you want to play faster, play simpler.

Supporting breaks isn’t about the work you do after the break, it’s the work you do before the break to be ready for it.

There’s a reason JGP was ahead of Larmour for that kick through. It was a longer line to the potential ruck but a shorter one to support the potential break. A clean focus on the basics makes everything simple.

Leinster could keep going round the corner knowing that the defense would fall behind. Connacht were the opposite, they’d have more defenders on the open side than we had attackers quite often after a few phases.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Watched the game again this morning and was thinking the same thing about the Ulster players getting a bit of a free ride. Piutau's tackle was appalling but there also the moment where he just flung the ball back over someone's head near the middle of the pitch, what the hell was that about?

I think Kiss' goose is cooked and agree that he hasn't added anything positive, but the players are a much bigger issue IMO. To send down a strong team like that was a signal of intent...and then they didn't show up, that's very worrying. And now they have to face La Rochelle having been embarrassed in Dublin. Being well beaten was always on the cards but now you would think they're totally demoralised heading into next week as well, and Kiss should have guarded against that IMO. I think there'll be a reaction next week in terms of intensity but their confidence must be shot.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I also wouldn't be too enamoured with Dwayne Peel. He was asked about what Ulster needed to do to improve their defence during his in game interview and said they didn't need to do anything, just needed to get possession. I wouldn't expect him to tear into anyone in public but that's a bit of a joke really.

[limecat]

[curates_egg]

Ah You, Diack.

I'm not saying they're anywhere close to us, and they've been going backwards, but they're not as bad as they're playing. They were embarrassing last night: optional tackling, dropped balls. Clancy was doing his best to keep them in the game. It's sad to see. Gibbes and Kiss are two good coaches.
They've got injuries and losing Pienaar AND Olding-Jackson seems to have totally disrupted them.
But all that doesn't explain the abject displays they've been putting in lately.
Dundon essentially accused players of not being bothered. Piutau, who is class, seems to not play when they are defending.

No. Just no. This Ulster side isn't a patch on the one that got to the HEC final, Best aside they've no real front row, their locks are young and still developing. Compare this squad to that one.

They're at their level, 3rd in their conference and 2nd in their pool with an outside chance of making the knockouts.

I think you are misreading what I am saying. 3rd in conference is where they are at but that doesn't tell the full story. Some of their performances over the past 2 months have been abject. The collection of players they have is not that bad.
Sure, they had a weak pack last night...but that doesn't account for the hammering they took. Basic errors, lack of commitment and lack of guts seemed to be pretty obvious factors.

Anyway, enough time wasted discussing Ulster. We used 37 players in the interpro series without blinking. That's pretty heartening stuff. I don't want to get ahead of myself but I am more excited about this second half of the season than I have been in years.

[Oldschool]

In simplistic terms and agreeing with a lot of what has been said.
1. The Jackson/Olding affair must be impacting on the Ulster squad.
2. Possession - Ulster cough up possession too easily and don't work hard enough at the breakdown to either protect their own possession or turnover the opposition's possession.
3. Kiss needs to get continuity of selection sorted notwithstanding the need for rotation.
Kiss therefore needs to simplify the way his team plays.
Leinster are at a different level at the moment so forget about competing with us or Scarlets for the moment (unless at home)

[artaneboy]

it’s whether we need to have him in the bench- or can Nick McCarthy do the last 20.

Surely its whether Nick McCarthy can do 70 mins if McGrath is injured early. That would be the more important question. I dont think hes there yet.

Spot on. He should get a few starts during the 6 nations.

Angels on pinhead stuff really- but... the last 20 are the standard requirement of McCarthy: in any game he benches for, he will more than likely get that.

Obviously if he’s judged to be capable of holding his end up in the final quarter of an important match- the, probably correct, assumption is that he’s a risk worth taking to fill in for an injury to the starting 9 from earlier in a match.

The question is, can McCarthy do the job almost as well as the starter? The time on the pitch is a factor, but not a deciding one.


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