Leinster Vs Scarlets Sat 17th Feb 15.15 Sky Sports

[wixfjord]

Surprised to see the extreme negativity here. 4-1 is an ok result all things considered IMO.

We were missing 4 props, 2 second rows, 2 back rows, 1 outhalf, a wing and a fullback to the IRFU. We are missing 3 centres, 4 back rows, one hooker to injury.
We had some serious novices in that 23.
We had what was possibly our weakest backline defensively.
Our outhalf is in a bad run of form.
Our scrum was poor, our defence was worrying, and it was very annoying to leak a bonus point at the death.

But we beat the conference leaders and league champions.

To call it 'extreme negativity' is a bit, well 'extreme'. And also untrue.

It's great to get an important win, but we should've pushed on or at least kept them pointless.

It's disappointing not to at least win 4-0 and to not have come close to the 5-0 when we were 17-7 up at 41 minutes and had so much of the ball.

A two point swing could be huge at the end of the year, but more than that, we were carrying some passengers today who didn't perform up to scratch.

[curates_egg]

It's great to get an important win, but we should've pushed on or at least kept them pointless.

It's disappointing not to at least win 4-0 and to not have come close to the 5-0 when we were 17-7 up at 41 minutes and had so much of the ball.

I agree with all of that.

A two point swing could be huge at the end of the year, but more than that, we were carrying some passengers today who didn't perform up to scratch.

We were carrying passengers from the outset though, against the league champions and leaders. That is largely down to injuries and the IRFU.
Against that background, to get a win is an OK return.

I hope the IRFU have taken note and release at least one of Healy/McGrath and Porter for the return leg. Hopefully, we will also have Isa and Ringrose then too.
I would be a lot more confident then.

[Ruckedtobits]

Lots of learnings from that game against another well coached team.

Larmour will have learned that his skills may be best employed as alternatively runner and decoy and his linking with wingers such as Lowe and Byrne, who both have huge potential as attacking carriers, will yield more opportunities than merely jinking like a high-energy bunny against a team attuned to his skills.

Bent is a huge asset and well under-rated. The absence of a pure number 7 was evident but Jordi did so many things well including turnovers that for 2nd and 3rd quarters, we prevented James Davies from getting too many opportunities.

Our mid-field was porous in first quarter and Scarlets defence produced real confusion in Reid's head.

In the final 25 minutes, Ross Byrne overhit two and possible three cross-kicks to Adam Byrne which should have given him the opportunity to win air contests rather than forlornly chase kicks.

Happy to get ahead of them on the log but should have taken a 5-0 points return, although I believe we can get a win over there so long as we don't have Lacy again. He was one-eyed at breakdowns in 2nd half and it wasn't in favour of home team!

[wixfjord]

It's great to get an important win, but we should've pushed on or at least kept them pointless.

It's disappointing not to at least win 4-0 and to not have come close to the 5-0 when we were 17-7 up at 41 minutes and had so much of the ball.

I agree with all of that.

A two point swing could be huge at the end of the year, but more than that, we were carrying some passengers today who didn't perform up to scratch.

We were carrying passengers from the outset though, against the league champions and leaders. That is largely down to injuries and the IRFU.
Against that background, to get a win is an OK return.

I hope the IRFU have taken note and release at least one of Healy/McGrath and Porter for the return leg. Hopefully, we will also have Isa and Ringrose then too.
I would be a lot more confident then.

Which passengers were starting? That was a team of guys who have all got either a lot of experience or have been playing well over the season.

Scarlets were missing similar numbers to us and on paper our side was much stronger.

To get a win at the start of the day might've been an ok return.

As the game panned out a 4-1 wasn't a good return, and we should've put them away or at least stopped the LBP.

That's not 'extreme negativity' or anything near it.

[CiaranIrl]

McGrath looked ropey enough going off with the ankle knock. We could be missing him for a while,which weirdly means we'll be missing Lowe too. O'Loughlin was out cold as well. We'll end up very short at centre for next week.

[wixfjord]

McGrath looked ropey enough going off with the ankle knock. We could be missing him for a while,which weirdly means we'll be missing Lowe too. O'Loughlin was out cold as well. We'll end up very short at centre for next week.

Was it a head knock that ROL went off for?

Without McGrath starting against Sarries, I think we can kiss a SF goodbye tbh. 6 weeks though, so hopefully he'll be grand.

McCarthy had a nice cameo when he came on. Does the nuts and bolts pretty well.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I've sympathy for the guys who defended poorly out wide early on. Ross Byrne and Noel offered zero linespeed which meant the guys outside were outnumbered and on the back foot. We didn't stay connected but I can see how they were put under pressure.

Disappointed with Ross again but I wonder if he was injured? He wasn't playing so badly that he should have been stripped of kicking duty and from what I've seen from Frawley his kicking isn't so good that he'd automatically be given the kicking role, plus he went off early. Frawley was good though. Didn't see it at 20's level but thought he'd improved hugely in an A game recently and he was more than solid today. Our midfield really didn't function early on though, Noel looked lost a few times when he was on the ball, and ROL's concussion was a direct result of the backs not knowing what to do. Larmour was far too selfish. I think it was when he ran back towards Beirne and got turned over that he had a chance to move the ball the other way but went himself. I don't expect it to happen again but he was playing a one man game at times, and also got caught out of position a fair bit.

Thought we really lacked ball carriers. It was a real struggle to get go forward and quick ball. I was disappointed with Cronin, thought he got caught out wide a few times, fell off a couple of tackles, and had that wonky lineout. The comment above about Molony was more praise of Beirne than criticism of Molony but I thought he was really good actually. Unfortunately he doesn't have the power/bulk to get over the gainline, but his defence was outstanding and he was a very willing carrier and the lineout/maul generally went very well. Deegan was similar. Defensively he was brilliant, just reads things so well and bounces off the ground to make sure he can make the next tackle. Showed some nice skills and had some good close in carries as well as a good turnover. Jordi had a couple of good turnovers too but we needed to see himself and Josh on the ball more.

Beirne was superb but I'm still surprised we didn't deal with him better. You could see our players having a sly look after he'd win the ball back, it was like they knew it would be him and that they were supposed to have planned for it, thought that was very poor.

Most of that is negative but we took our tries well and I was happy that we were able to lift the tempo at the start of the second half when we really needed to. Lowe was great and it was good to see Nick play well when he came on.

[fourthirtythree]

Happy to get ahead of them on the log but should have taken a 5-0 points return, although I believe we can get a win over there so long as we don't have Lacy again. He was one-eyed at breakdowns in 2nd half and it wasn't in favour of home team!

I''m not sure we can expect much over there based on our play alone.

I was counting at the breakdowns and Lacy was very kind to them (awarding turnovers when they were being kept from contesting the ball even!) and not so much for us. That said it didn't really impact on the scoreline. We weren't getting any quick ball anyway and they didn't do much attacking from their penalties at the breakdown. We lost 3 penalty kicks to our scrum, the miss for one of those was quite shocking. We also just about came away with the ball when they destroyed our scrum around our 22.

[limecat]

McGrath looked ropey enough going off with the ankle knock

He seemed to have an ice pack on his knee heading into the changing room after the match.

[A16]

Getting Porter back really could have made a difference today. Our scrum was appalling once Bent was substituted.

[Oldschool]

Surprised to see the extreme negativity here. 4-1 is an ok result all things considered IMO.

We were missing 4 props, 2 second rows, 2 back rows, 1 outhalf, a wing and a fullback to the IRFU. We are missing 3 centres, 4 back rows, one hooker to injury.
We had some serious novices in that 23.
We had what was possibly our weakest backline defensively.
Our outhalf is in a bad run of form.
Our scrum was poor, our defence was worrying, and it was very annoying to leak a bonus point at the death.

But we beat the conference leaders and league champions.

To balance that up, how many players were Scarlets missing?
Their line speed was impressive and coordinated.
Ours was lacking speed and coordination.

[Oldschool]

McGrath looked ropey enough going off with the ankle knock. We could be missing him for a while,which weirdly means we'll be missing Lowe too. O'Loughlin was out cold as well. We'll end up very short at centre for next week.

Byrne should never have given that pass to ROL.
It was so late it was intercepted and ROL took the brunt of trying to prevent the intercept.
Currently Byrne only looks good behind a really dominant pack.
Talk of him being a better option that Joey is pure nonsense.
Moloney is another who has been overhyped by some although in fairness nobody has nominated him for the Ireland squad.
Our pack went well today until the much maligned Bent was subbed off.
Of the backs Lowe and Frawley were good.
Adam Byrne had an ok game considering it was his first match in months.
Byrne and Reid were very poor defencively and conceded territory way too easily.
Leinster are going to have to come up with a short term strategy to bolster our midfield defence or we'll get caught out like we did against Edinburgh and could easily have done again today.

[wixfjord]

McGrath looked ropey enough going off with the ankle knock. We could be missing him for a while,which weirdly means we'll be missing Lowe too. O'Loughlin was out cold as well. We'll end up very short at centre for next week.

Currently Byrne only looks good behind a really dominant pack.
Talk of him being a better option that Joey is pure nonsense.

Funny, I can't think of a time when has Joey looked good at 10 for us behind a pack going backwards?
Can you?

[Oldschool]

McGrath looked ropey enough going off with the ankle knock. We could be missing him for a while,which weirdly means we'll be missing Lowe too. O'Loughlin was out cold as well. We'll end up very short at centre for next week.

Currently Byrne only looks good behind a really dominant pack.
Talk of him being a better option that Joey is pure nonsense.

Funny, I can't think of a time when has Joey looked good at 10 for us behind a pack going backwards?
Can you?

It'd be a waste of time.

[wixfjord]

It'd be a waste of time.

Sorry?

The question stands. You said Byrne only looks good behind a dominant pack. I'd disagree there, but I'd also say that even if that is the case, Carbery hasn't shown anything different.

So could you back up your point with an example?

[curates_egg]

Which passengers were starting? That was a team of guys who have all got either a lot of experience or have been playing well over the season.

Scarlets were missing similar numbers to us and on paper our side was much stronger.

Passengers is maybe not the right word, but I was trying to riff on your post.
However, Reid and ROL have been definite passengers this season. In defence, AByrne and Lowe have not ever looked like they are part of a cohesive system. As for Molony, I bought into the hype at the beginning but - as someone mentioned above - when you see him up against a player we released, he really has disappointed in how he has developed. Ross Byrne must be carrying a knock or something because he hasn't looked good for a while now.

When you take that into account, as well as the fact we had a makeshift backline for most of the game and a bench that was anything but impact, I think - even on balance of the game - 4-1 is OK. Not great, but OK.
It is annoying to leak the point at the end for sure, but look at the team that finished.
Dooley, Strauss, Heffernan, Molony, Nagle, Fardy, Connors, Deegan, McCarthy, Frawley, Lowe, AByrne, Reid, Daly, Larmour...
It was not that surprising that we couldn't canter home after McGrath got his try and was subbed shortly after.

Sure, it's frustrating, but it is what it is.
As I say, I hope the IRFU have taken note of this round of matches from the Irish provinces, and we are cut a bit more slack in two weeks.
If we had Healy/McGrath, Porter and McFadden, or even just Porter and McFadden, I think we would have closed it out without a problem.

[wixfjord]

Which passengers were starting? That was a team of guys who have all got either a lot of experience or have been playing well over the season.

Scarlets were missing similar numbers to us and on paper our side was much stronger.

Passengers is maybe not the right word, but I was trying to riff on your post.
However, Reid and ROL have been definite passengers this season. In defence, AByrne and Lowe have not ever looked like they are part of a cohesive system. As for Molony, I bought into the hype at the beginning but - as someone mentioned above - when you see him up against a player we released, he really has disappointed in how he has developed. Ross Byrne must be carrying a knock or something because he hasn't looked good for a while now.

When you take that into account, as well as the fact we had a makeshift backline for most of the game and a bench that was anything but impact, I think - even on balance of the game - 4-1 is OK. Not great, but OK.
It is annoying to leak the point at the end for sure, but look at the team that finished.
Dooley, Strauss, Heffernan, Molony, Nagle, Fardy, Connors, Deegan, McCarthy, Frawley, Lowe, AByrne, Reid, Daly, Larmour...
It was not that surprising that we couldn't canter home after McGrath got his try and was subbed shortly after.

Sure, it's frustrating, but it is what it is.
As I say, I hope the IRFU have taken note of this round of matches from the Irish provinces, and we are cut a bit more slack in two weeks.
If we had Healy/McGrath, Porter and McFadden, or even just Porter and McFadden, I think we would have closed it out without a problem.

Nah, it's not correct to say Reid and ROl have been passengers all season. Nor would I swap them for what Scarlets had at 12/13.
Molony is good at this level, and did ok today. Hardly a passenger.

We were 17-7 up at 41 minutes. It ended 20-13 despite us having the majority of possession. A big swing in points could've put us 5 up instead of three.

Again, you said 'extreme negativity'. That was 'extreme' in itself. It's just poor to give them a needless LBP and not look remotely like getting a TBP for ourselves, which could be crucial.

[curates_egg]

Nah, it's not correct to say Reid and ROl have been passengers all season. Nor would I swap them for what Scarlets had at 12/13.
Molony is good at this level, and did ok today. Hardly a passenger.

We were 17-7 up at 41 minutes. It ended 20-13 despite us having the majority of possession. A big swing in points could've put us 5 up instead of three.

Again, you said 'extreme negativity'. That was 'extreme' in itself. It's just poor to give them a needless LBP and not look remotely like getting a TBP for ourselves, which could be crucial.

I apologise for my extreme use of the word extreme then

Seriously though, look at our finishing XV: we were never going to canter home.
We'll presumably have an odd selection next week again but I really hope we get cut a bit of slack for the second game against Scarlets.

Other things I hope: we don't get any more injured players; McGrath's injury isn't as bad as it looked; we have two fit centres for Saracens...
Our season was going great before the effing 6 Nations.

[wixfjord]

Nah, it's not correct to say Reid and ROl have been passengers all season. Nor would I swap them for what Scarlets had at 12/13.
Molony is good at this level, and did ok today. Hardly a passenger.

We were 17-7 up at 41 minutes. It ended 20-13 despite us having the majority of possession. A big swing in points could've put us 5 up instead of three.

Again, you said 'extreme negativity'. That was 'extreme' in itself. It's just poor to give them a needless LBP and not look remotely like getting a TBP for ourselves, which could be crucial.

I apologise for my extreme use of the word extreme then

Seriously though, look at our finishing XV: we were never going to canter home.
We'll presumably have an odd selection next week again but I really hope we get cut a bit of slack for the second game against Scarlets.

Other things I hope: we don't get any more injured players; McGrath's injury isn't as bad as it looked; we have two fit centres for Saracens...
Our season was going great before the effing 6 Nations.

We didn't need to 'canter' home. We needed to grab a few points to keep them out of range or put a bit more pressure on their tryline, we did neither.

Also, look at their finishing XV.

To expect McGrath/Healy and Porter to be released is a bit much. Not sure Ferg would've made much difference today either considering we had Larmour, Byrne, Lowe and Daly available.

[Keith]

Which passengers were starting? That was a team of guys who have all got either a lot of experience or have been playing well over the season.

Scarlets were missing similar numbers to us and on paper our side was much stronger.

Passengers is maybe not the right word, but I was trying to riff on your post.
However, Reid and ROL have been definite passengers this season. In defence, AByrne and Lowe have not ever looked like they are part of a cohesive system. As for Molony, I bought into the hype at the beginning but - as someone mentioned above - when you see him up against a player we released, he really has disappointed in how he has developed. Ross Byrne must be carrying a knock or something because he hasn't looked good for a while now.

When you take that into account, as well as the fact we had a makeshift backline for most of the game and a bench that was anything but impact, I think - even on balance of the game - 4-1 is OK. Not great, but OK.
It is annoying to leak the point at the end for sure, but look at the team that finished.
Dooley, Strauss, Heffernan, Molony, Nagle, Fardy, Connors, Deegan, McCarthy, Frawley, Lowe, AByrne, Reid, Daly, Larmour...
It was not that surprising that we couldn't canter home after McGrath got his try and was subbed shortly after.

Sure, it's frustrating, but it is what it is.
As I say, I hope the IRFU have taken note of this round of matches from the Irish provinces, and we are cut a bit more slack in two weeks.
If we had Healy/McGrath, Porter and McFadden, or even just Porter and McFadden, I think we would have closed it out without a problem.

Ross Byrne hasn't looked good for a while?? You mean he has struggled against Edinburgh and the Scarlets... He has been great this season.