Post-Slam, pre-Sarries Demented Mole examines Leinster

[riocard911]

Must read!! Enjoy!!!

https://dementedmole.com/2018/03/21/fro ... eo-rising/

[Oldschool]

Good article and thanks for posting the link.
A very important point that MOC missed completely is that fans want to see the younger guys getting selected.
A large number of fans are from rugby playing schools and they want to see their own running out onto the pitch.
Ditto the local club players and fans.
Fans, subconsciously, also want to see that the club they support has a future as well as a present.
One Scott Farfy is brilliant, ten maybe not so much.
MOC lost the fans before he lost the dressing room but it was probably a close run thing.

[curates_egg]

I've never understood why hugonaut doesn't post them on here: modesty?

[hugonaut]

I've never understood why hugonaut doesn't post them on here: modesty?

One of the other Moles wrote that one. It's very good I think! It is something that has been discussed on this board a lot but [as far as I know] he's not a member here.

[Donny B.]

Excellent piece, thanks for posting it.

MOC was always too thick to realise what he thought was Leinster's biggest weakness was actually their biggest strength. His decision to play big club wingers like Fanning and McGrath (good lads but not of the required class) rather than younger lads showed how remedial his theory on the game were.

Ireland probably wouldn't have won the Slam this season if Leinster hadn't sacked him.

[COYBIB]

Ireland probably wouldn't have won the Slam this season if Leinster hadn't sacked him.

Crucial point for its validity.

Of all the really poor selection policies MOC had, and there were many, his handling of the 9 jersey was the most criminal. Day after day people were complaining about his insistence on playing Boss who was clearly in the twilight of his career, and his insistence not to treat Boss / Reddan as one selection and McGrath / Cooney as the other cost us a really good scrum half, a waste of a NIQ signing and a hole in our development (and it was abundantly clear how good Cooney was at the time).

Credit where its due, he did some good stuff, converting Ben Te'o was probably his finest moment, but overall he was a complete disaster for Leinster. Not so much Irish rugby as plenty of young players left and ended up elsewhere, Tadgh Beirne, Flanagan, Roux in the second row (at least Denton got plenty of game time!), a whole host of players to Connacht for example, at the time Kelleher seemed like a big loss (but at least Fanning and Kirchner were kept busy!). He can't take full responsibility for each player that left, and I don't think anyone saw how good Beirne was at the time, but given how well we could be sorted at 9, his mismanagement of those players and having to use that NIQ spot is unforgivable.

[cormac]

Kelleher left a full season after O'Connor.

[wixfjord]

Kelleher left a full season after O'Connor.

As did Beirne.

Also on Cooney, he has certainly come good at Ulster and latterly at Connacht, and had some nice cameos at Leinster, along with some bad days.
But to say it was 'abundantly clear how good Cooney was at the time' is revisionist.

[Dave Cahill]

Ireland probably wouldn't have won the Slam this season if Leinster hadn't sacked him.

Crucial point for its validity.

Of all the really poor selection policies MOC had, and there were many, his handling of the 9 jersey was the most criminal. Day after day people were complaining about his insistence on playing Boss who was clearly in the twilight of his career, and his insistence not to treat Boss / Reddan as one selection and McGrath / Cooney as the other cost us a really good scrum half, a waste of a NIQ signing and a hole in our development (and it was abundantly clear how good Cooney was at the time).

Credit where its due, he did some good stuff, converting Ben Te'o was probably his finest moment, but overall he was a complete disaster for Leinster. Not so much Irish rugby as plenty of young players left and ended up elsewhere, Tadgh Beirne, Flanagan, Roux in the second row (at least Denton got plenty of game time!), a whole host of players to Connacht for example, at the time Kelleher seemed like a big loss (but at least Fanning and Kirchner were kept busy!). He can't take full responsibility for each player that left, and I don't think anyone saw how good Beirne was at the time, but given how well we could be sorted at 9, his mismanagement of those players and having to use that NIQ spot is unforgivable.

Kelleher and Beirne left a year after O'Connor did, Flanagan was released by Schmidt.

[COYBIB]

But to say it was 'abundantly clear how good Cooney was at the time' is revisionist.

I don't think so, he was marginally more impressive than McGrath for my money and his "cameos" were pretty much the only minutes he got on the pitch and he was generally very impressive. I can't remember the opposition, but after he was loaned to Connacht and we had to call him back due to lack of scrum halves, he was superb in the game he played,again, it was abundantly clear that we needed to hold on to the guy.

Re the people leaving after MOC, was it not the years of exclusion that preceded it the whole point? Like I said in my original post, he can't be blamed for every player leaving, but certainly in some instances his complete lack of interest in rotating young players in and giving them game time would be a big consideration on whether to stick around or not, especially when another province puts a contract in front of you and tells you they'll play you.

[wixfjord]

But to say it was 'abundantly clear how good Cooney was at the time' is revisionist.

I don't think so, he was marginally more impressive than McGrath for my money and his "cameos" were pretty much the only minutes he got on the pitch and he was generally very impressive. I can't remember the opposition, but after he was loaned to Connacht and we had to call him back due to lack of scrum halves, he was superb in the game he played,again, it was abundantly clear that we needed to hold on to the guy.

Re the people leaving after MOC, was it not the years of exclusion that preceded it the whole point? Like I said in my original post, he can't be blamed for every player leaving, but certainly in some instances his complete lack of interest in rotating young players in and giving them game time would be a big consideration on whether to stick around or not, especially when another province puts a contract in front of you and tells you they'll play you.

As I say, I think you're being very revisionist and trying to fit a narrative around your own opinion.
The last time he played for us was a game against Dragons at home, in which he got 14 minutes and we lost.

Cooney at Leinster was nowhere near Cooney in his latter stages at Connahct, and certainly nowhere near his Ulster form.

Your whole point about the players that left was that they left when he was there. That wasn't true in 3 of the 4 players you mentioned. In the case of Roux, he had one season under MOC in which he got 400 minutes.

[ronk]

MOC's problem was that he wasnt that great a coach. We needed someone who could embrace the challenges of our very fragmented season.

When he didnt ge control over that he never got to the point ehere he could develop a long term vision for the squad