Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby desperado » April 29th, 2018, 11:43 pm

Blueberry wrote:
wwed wrote:Don't accept that this was inevitable or should be dismissed as meaningless. We had 10 or 11 who will be in the 23 for Bilbao. Most others were reasonably experienced pro players who are an injury away from the first 23. A good culture means turning up every time. We were humiliated, beaten in every aspect of play. Should have seen more, even just from individual player pride.


Look it's not fun to watch and of course you'd like to see a closer game and a better performance. Just think we need a touch of perspective about the reality of playing at these levels. The difference between pro teams is quite narrow in most games. When we rock up in Connacht (A province who always seems to reserve their best game of the year for us...and then add Muldoon's last game into the mix) with our mind on bigger prizes and with a very mixed team with some of our weakest squad players starting I just can't see how anyone could really have expected much else. I didn't. Yes it was a shambles, yes it's not ideal but it is reality. People calling it unacceptable, wanting to write to Leo etc etc is just daft. If we can get over the line in Bilbao we will have had arguably the greatest European cup run of any team, with the results and teams we have beaten this year and with a solid league performance and hopefully a trophy there too we would have had our greatest ever season. I think Leocaster should be trusted now to manage things as they see fit, they have earned this and we are in a sweet place ATM. End results are all that matters.Watching us dismantle Saracens and Scarlets and our pool performance has been stunning and a pleasure to watch. The next month will determine how great this year will be, not this dead rubber in Connacht. Most other teams fans would bite off their left hand to be where Leinster are now and I can't imagine many other teams fans are seriously looking at this Leinster result being of any significance. Yes question and discuss the performance of some of our second string and third players, they need to be looked at to see where our squad depth is but to question culture and for others to call it unacceptable and be giving out yards is off the mark and disrespects our opposition. A motivated first string team at home from another Irish province should be beating our a second/third string Leinster mix, if not Nucifora would be moving the lot anyway !!!


forget about quoting 'second and third string players' as a comparison. Go down through the starting 15 on both sides and then go through the bench. How many in Connacht's side would you have rated (before the game) either based on reputation, previous performance, or rating in say Joe Schmidt's eyes as being better than their counterpart. I can think of Roux , Marmion. FFS we had a front row of Porter, Tracy, McGrath -all Ireland capped and including a Lion. There's a difference in being beaten and carried off on your shield and having your arse handed to you.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby Blueberry » April 30th, 2018, 12:20 am

Fair point re Leavy but last year he was a promising backrow in a clutter of good Leinster backrows, this year right now he is arguably first choice for Leinster and Ireland in the back row and a world class operator, huge progress from a super player. Stellar progress worth highlighting.

Loved every minute of our second string side v Munster but it was a stronger side on the pitch, mid season with no distractions.

We can talk this round the houses forever but did the result v Connacht surprise me, no, was it unacceptable to me, no and should we be worried, no. It means little or nothing, it was a dead rubber and a fired up Connacht in Galway are always tricky, much better, less distracted Leinster sides have come a cropper there before.

Bit of perspective needed methinks.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby Blueberry » April 30th, 2018, 12:28 am

desperado wrote:
Blueberry wrote:
wwed wrote:Don't accept that this was inevitable or should be dismissed as meaningless. We had 10 or 11 who will be in the 23 for Bilbao. Most others were reasonably experienced pro players who are an injury away from the first 23. A good culture means turning up every time. We were humiliated, beaten in every aspect of play. Should have seen more, even just from individual player pride.


Look it's not fun to watch and of course you'd like to see a closer game and a better performance. Just think we need a touch of perspective about the reality of playing at these levels. The difference between pro teams is quite narrow in most games. When we rock up in Connacht (A province who always seems to reserve their best game of the year for us...and then add Muldoon's last game into the mix) with our mind on bigger prizes and with a very mixed team with some of our weakest squad players starting I just can't see how anyone could really have expected much else. I didn't. Yes it was a shambles, yes it's not ideal but it is reality. People calling it unacceptable, wanting to write to Leo etc etc is just daft. If we can get over the line in Bilbao we will have had arguably the greatest European cup run of any team, with the results and teams we have beaten this year and with a solid league performance and hopefully a trophy there too we would have had our greatest ever season. I think Leocaster should be trusted now to manage things as they see fit, they have earned this and we are in a sweet place ATM. End results are all that matters.Watching us dismantle Saracens and Scarlets and our pool performance has been stunning and a pleasure to watch. The next month will determine how great this year will be, not this dead rubber in Connacht. Most other teams fans would bite off their left hand to be where Leinster are now and I can't imagine many other teams fans are seriously looking at this Leinster result being of any significance. Yes question and discuss the performance of some of our second string and third players, they need to be looked at to see where our squad depth is but to question culture and for others to call it unacceptable and be giving out yards is off the mark and disrespects our opposition. A motivated first string team at home from another Irish province should be beating our a second/third string Leinster mix, if not Nucifora would be moving the lot anyway !!!


forget about quoting 'second and third string players' as a comparison. Go down through the starting 15 on both sides and then go through the bench. How many in Connacht's side would you have rated (before the game) either based on reputation, previous performance, or rating in say Joe Schmidt's eyes as being better than their counterpart. I can think of Roux , Marmion. FFS we had a front row of Porter, Tracy, McGrath -all Ireland capped and including a Lion. There's a difference in being beaten and carried off on your shield and having your arse handed to you.


Several good players in that Connacht side, the only real question I have left from the game is why have they been so poor all year. Surprised they beat what we had out comfortably, no. Bigger fish to fry yes and you won't see Porter, McGrath etc standing off rucks and ambling round the pitch in Bilbao when called upon.

Time to move on....Bilbao awaits !!!!
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby Xanthippe » April 30th, 2018, 12:36 am

curates_egg wrote:
desperado wrote:McGrath is not a captain.


Have thought this on each occasion. I seem to recall us underperforming in the games where he has been captain, with one obvious exception. He is also really off form. Classic post-Lions blip; needs time off to sort himself out.
If the captain is dialling a performance in, what kind of message does that send to the rest?



Ah that may be a bit unfair.

He’s captained us four times now and in the two important games (away to Munster and home to Ulster) his teams performed brilliantly.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby hugonaut » April 30th, 2018, 8:18 am

desperado wrote:forget about quoting 'second and third string players' as a comparison. Go down through the starting 15 on both sides and then go through the bench. How many in Connacht's side would you have rated (before the game) either based on reputation, previous performance, or rating in say Joe Schmidt's eyes as being better than their counterpart. I can think of Roux , Marmion. FFS we had a front row of Porter, Tracy, McGrath -all Ireland capped and including a Lion. There's a difference in being beaten and carried off on your shield and having your arse handed to you.


You don't think Bundee Aki is better than Noel Reid? Seriously?
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby backrower8 » April 30th, 2018, 9:00 am

Gearzbox2 wrote:Id agree with a lot of the comments re: we need to take stock to whats on the horizon but the other half of me cant get take in how bad we were today

From Dalys opening howler to cronin/healy messing up for their scrummies try it was utter shite
Jack mc looks like hes 5kgs too heavy
Tracys form has gone backwards at a rate of knots
Porter wasn't up to much
Mick K threw himself about...Ross M im sorry to say again was poor
Didnt realise Max Deegan was playing
Thought Peadar did well

Backs were so so bad....rudderless
Joey looks lost, its so bizarre to see
Thought Reid actually fronted up well

Subs tried, cronin and healy did ok
Doris did very well, who ill call it now will play for ireland in the next 3 years


A wise summation.

I am also of the view that the coaches have done zip in terms of preparation outside of the Champions Cup matches since we qualified.

There still needs to be more experience in the starting team but injuries and the big picture did for that.

Ross Byrne should impose himself more on these occasions and I expect ally want to see him develop himself as a running option bringing the ball to the line and staying square in the pass, however we were done in the front 5 before we lost anywhere else and our backrow configuration was a joke.

No, it was not acceptable and an insult to fans (especially the travelers) but let’s keep it in big picture perspective.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby olaf the fat » April 30th, 2018, 9:51 am

The 2014 winners beaten by the 2016 winners in a dead rubber. Leinster have only eyes for the CC Final and Pro 14 Semi and B&I final, the only aim of that last game was to lose by less than 6o.

The Westies had a point to prove and a hero to send off. Fair play to them for the deserved hosing.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby OTT » April 30th, 2018, 10:05 am

I just don't accept people not trying in a Leinster team. Why did Lowe make an effort (even if he cost us a few scores), why did Doris come on and play like an express train? Were they not told to be sh*t*?? Did they miss the memo?

Of course the result does not matter the job was done a few weeks ago but it matters to me that players looked like they could not give a toss. Lots of these guys are our future, they should go out and earn it every match. Kearney, Molony, McCarthy, Reid, Daly, Carbery to name a few young guns and squad players are playing for the right to be part of the best squad in Europe. They should have some perspective themselves and play for the f'ing jersey. What have they won in their career that they don't need to bother? F-all! (Other then Carbery who is living off his rep).

No doubt the intensity will be back up for Bilbao just a pity some of the other members of our squad who won't be involved don't seem to give a toss.

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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby neiliog93 » April 30th, 2018, 10:16 am

Ah now, we're underestimating Connacht a bit here.

LP: Jack McGrath is better than Buckley, but unfortunately in the worst form of his senior career, probably wrecked after a heavy workload last season and the Lions tour.
HK: Delahunt is probably better than Tracy now.
TP: Porter is marginally ahead of Bealham, who when consistently on form in 2016 was Ireland's second choice tight-head for a while.

LK: Molony is ahead of Thornbury although the latter might have more potential due to his huge size; going to New Zealand seems to have helped him a lot.
LK: Roux is better than Kearney.

BFL: McKeon is better than Deegan (for the time being), purely as an option at 6.
OFL: Butler is significantly better than Timmins.
No.8: Conan is better than Muldoon.

SH: Marmion is better than McCarthy
OH: Byrne is better than Carty overall but the latter is a better running 10.

ICE: Aki is better than Reid
OCE: T.Farrell is better than T.Daly

OB: Adeleokun and B.Daly are about the same.
OB: M.Healy is overall about the same as Lowe. Lowe is a much better natural footballer but just makes too many errors at the moment. Healy remains a huge attacking threat.
OB: O'Halloran is a worse overall player than Carbery but a better fullback.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby Fireworks » April 30th, 2018, 10:55 am

A few days since that match and the pain is clearing to allow a bit of perspective in. Dead rubber with a weakened selection and a few first squad guys thinking about a flight to Spain. If all goes to plan over the next few weeks then us fans will quickly forget the pain. I cannot imagine that the management or the guys involved will forget so quickly. It pointed out that our strength in depth is not quiet that deep and some of the second/third string need more work.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby Flash Gordon » April 30th, 2018, 2:03 pm

OTT wrote:I just don't accept people not trying in a Leinster team. Why did Lowe make an effort (even if he cost us a few scores), why did Doris come on and play like an express train? Were they not told to be sh*t*?? Did they miss the memo?

Of course the result does not matter the job was done a few weeks ago but it matters to me that players looked like they could not give a toss. Lots of these guys are our future, they should go out and earn it every match. Kearney, Molony, McCarthy, Reid, Daly, Carbery to name a few young guns and squad players are playing for the right to be part of the best squad in Europe. They should have some perspective themselves and play for the f'ing jersey. What have they won in their career that they don't need to bother? F-all! (Other then Carbery who is living off his rep).

No doubt the intensity will be back up for Bilbao just a pity some of the other members of our squad who won't be involved don't seem to give a toss.

Sorry for the fans who traveled.


Many of the lads who played are not in the coaches' plans for the matchday squad. You'd think they would want to give Leo and Bomber something to think about and make selection difficult but that was a really awful Leinster performance. Connacht didn't actually do that much and their league position shows that they are a poor team but at least they showed up.

Leinster treated the game like a practice match. There was a bit of chat about Muldoon's conversion and whether it lacked respect but not letting the outhalf take kicks and restarts was pretty disrespectful.

I was at the game and to be honest, it was embarrassing and humiliating, not because we lost but because we didn't try. The concerning thing is that we are entering the knockout cup rugby stage of the season and you need to do that with a squad, that's twice now the extended squad haven't shown up.

More positively, congrats to John Muldoon on a remarkable career. That appearance record may never be broken, incredible player and an even better man.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby mildlyinterested » April 30th, 2018, 2:04 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:
OTT wrote:I just don't accept people not trying in a Leinster team. Why did Lowe make an effort (even if he cost us a few scores), why did Doris come on and play like an express train? Were they not told to be sh*t*?? Did they miss the memo?

Of course the result does not matter the job was done a few weeks ago but it matters to me that players looked like they could not give a toss. Lots of these guys are our future, they should go out and earn it every match. Kearney, Molony, McCarthy, Reid, Daly, Carbery to name a few young guns and squad players are playing for the right to be part of the best squad in Europe. They should have some perspective themselves and play for the f'ing jersey. What have they won in their career that they don't need to bother? F-all! (Other then Carbery who is living off his rep).

No doubt the intensity will be back up for Bilbao just a pity some of the other members of our squad who won't be involved don't seem to give a toss.

Sorry for the fans who traveled.


Many of the lads who played are not in the coaches' plans for the matchday squad. You'd think they would want to give Leo and Bomber something to think about and make selection difficult but that was a really awful Leinster performance. Connacht didn't actually do that much and their league position shows that they are a poor team but at least they showed up.

Leinster treated the game like a practice match. There was a bit of chat about Muldoon's conversion and whether it lacked respect but not letting the outhalf take kicks and restarts was pretty disrespectful.

I was at the game and to be honest, it was embarrassing and humiliating, not because we lost but because we didn't try. The concerning thing is that we are entering the knockout cup rugby stage of the season and you need to do that with a squad, that's twice now the extended squad haven't shown up.

More positively, congrats to John Muldoon on a remarkable career. That appearance record may never be broken, incredible player and an even better man.


:green clap:
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby Peg Leg » April 30th, 2018, 2:11 pm

I feel sorry for Carbery. Graham Henry told us he could see the matrix, but he is no Neo.
Expectation is too much for a lad who hasn't had much time to earn much of the lofty weight he is expected to carry.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby riocard911 » April 30th, 2018, 2:41 pm

Peg Leg wrote:I feel sorry for Carbery. Graham Henry told us he could see the matrix, but he is no Neo.
Expectation is too much for a lad who hasn't had much time to earn much of the lofty weight he is expected to carry.


I agree. If I were Carbery at this stage I'd have my agent line up a megabuck deal with some English or French outfit, tell Joe and Leo that they either get their **** together or I'm off to foreign climes next season and they can stick their J10 succession plans where the sun don't shine.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby Leinsterlunatic » April 30th, 2018, 3:27 pm

Noel Reid is very poor.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby mildlyinterested » April 30th, 2018, 3:28 pm

Leinsterlunatic wrote:Noel Reid is very poor.


says a lot that he got 100 caps for leinster.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby Leinsterlunatic » April 30th, 2018, 3:33 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
Leinsterlunatic wrote:Noel Reid is very poor.


says a lot that he got 100 caps for leinster.


He can add a little flair when we are playing the likes of Zebre, however, I don't think he'll ever be good enough to start a European game, and at 28 he is also running out of time.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby mildlyinterested » April 30th, 2018, 3:36 pm

Leinsterlunatic wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
Leinsterlunatic wrote:Noel Reid is very poor.


says a lot that he got 100 caps for leinster.


He can add a little flair when we are playing the likes of Zebre, however, I don't think he'll ever be good enough to start a European game, and at 28 he is also running out of time.


well he has started several european games.. but I know what you mean...

His time is run, leinster should be looking to move on from him at the end of his next contract, now do they will have the homegrown options to do so is another thing...
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby Leinsterlunatic » April 30th, 2018, 3:42 pm

I like Tom Daly, he's quite big (like Henshaw) but maybe a bit one dimensional.

I always liked Peter Robb before he went to Connacht, he is also a specimen.
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Re: Connacht vs. Leinster, 28/04/2018, 15.05 IST

Postby olaf the fat » April 30th, 2018, 3:48 pm

Maybe it was just a "play shit, Ulster are looking" or a "I dont want to go to Belfast" type of performance.

On a serious point though, it shows just how little difference there is between being really good and being really poor. We are losing Jordi, Isa, Jamie, Strauss, and possibly either of Joey or Ross (plenty of room for Friends puns) - thats a lot of change to the dynamic of a squad.
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