Leinster Squad 18-19

[MelbourneRebel]

I'm clearly wired differently but I never understand Leinster fans on a Leinster forum, discussing our squad for next season, willing even more of our players into Ireland camp.

Because if they are good enough for Ireland then it is great for Leinster. And Ireland.

[johng]

99% of Leinster fans are also Ireland fans so......

[curates_egg]

I'm clearly wired differently but I never understand Leinster fans on a Leinster forum, discussing our squad for next season, willing even more of our players into Ireland camp.

Because if they are good enough for Ireland then it is great for Leinster. And Ireland.

Except it's not that simple.

[curates_egg]

99% of Leinster fans are also Ireland fans so......

I wouldn't be sure of that - I've seen Leinster jerseys in France, Belgium, New Zealand and other places.

But I am also also an Ireland fan. I just draw the line in a different place to you it seems.

[johng]

99% of Leinster fans are also Ireland fans so......

I wouldn't be sure of that - I've seen Leinster jerseys in France, Belgium, New Zealand and other places.

Ive seen plenty of Irish people in France, Belgium, New Zealand and other places. But I'm sure not all of the Leinster jerseys you have seen are Irish people.

But I am also also an Ireland fan. I just draw the line in a different place to you it seems.

You are perfectly entitled to draw any lines you feel necessary anywhere you like. Personally I don't feel I have to choose between Leinster and Ireland as they never play each other.

[riocard911]

On the question of Ireland vs Leinster, I reckon they both feed off each other. It's not a coincidence that in 2009 Leinster won their first Heino and Ireland their first slam in a gazillion years. The crossover between the two teams manifested itself positively in the recent 2017/2018 season. Leinster's group successes in the Heino - particularly the away wins in Sandy Park, Montpellier and Glasgow - laid the groundwork for the Slam with away wins in Twickenham and Paris. Perceived wisdom up to this point suggested that Ireland only had a chance to win a Slam in years when England and France played in Dublin. Similarly the experience the likes of James Ryan and Dan Leavy gained during the course of the Six Nations campaign contributed in no small manner, IMO, to Leinster's subsequent demolition of all opposition in the knock out stages of the ERCC and the Pro 14. The bit that gets me - still - is SO'B missing the Scarlet's semi in the RDS last year, so he could make the Lions tour to NZ, subsequent to which - thanks to the cheap hit to the shoulder from Kaino - we essentially haven't seen the guy since. Down with the Lions! Up Ireland! Up Leinster!

[ronk]

Munster have a centrally contracted 8 with JOD behind him and Beirne likely to play there a bit. They will target other positions well before they take an 8 from us.

With Heaslip gone Deegan will have no concerns about gametime. Also Munster have long standing preferences for 8s from a different mold.

Foley, Caughlan, Stander, Leamy were more hard work and aggression than raw talent and athleticism and were heroes. Copeland to some extent and Nick Williams in a big way were different players and never fit in fully.

That would be all wrong for Max. He’s rangy and athletic with footwork into contact, a preference for chop tackles and a serious off-loading/passing game.

Coughlan was a pretty good footballer tbf

And Nick Williams was obese at that stage

[ronk]

Coughlan was a pretty good footballer tbf

And Nick Williams was obese at that stage

Nick was effective at first, but he was never designed for the role he was given. Anscombe got much better production out of him because he played to his strengths.

Coughlan was fine. Played in the same mold.

[curates_egg]

99% of Leinster fans are also Ireland fans so......

I wouldn't be sure of that - I've seen Leinster jerseys in France, Belgium, New Zealand and other places.

Ive seen plenty of Irish people in France, Belgium, New Zealand and other places. But I'm sure not all of the Leinster jerseys you have seen are Irish people.

They're definitely not all Irish, as I've often asked. Saw one just this week on a Belgian guy playing in a touch rugby tournament I was in. I think it's super that our marketing team has done such a good job. We're not Barcelona, but we clearly have non-Irish fans outside (and inside) Ireland. If you're interested in rugby, and not from a country or region that has a team that can compete in Europe, you might want to support a team. I'm always very proud to see people choosing us; ten years ago, I never saw it. Certainly, here in Belgium, the jerseys you saw were Toulouse or Stade Francais.

As for your strawman about Leinster playing Ireland: if you want all of our number 8s (10s, wherever) playing with Ireland, how could we ever play Ireland?

[MelbourneRebel]

I'm clearly wired differently but I never understand Leinster fans on a Leinster forum, discussing our squad for next season, willing even more of our players into Ireland camp.

Because if they are good enough for Ireland then it is great for Leinster. And Ireland.

Except it's not that simple.

It is unless you want to play the victim card which seems unbecoming for Leinster.

If we develop players good enough for Ireland then obviously it is good for Leinster as we are developing players of that quality. Only a limited amount of players can be in international squads which makes it likely that those missing out on squads or being edged out of the XV would have something extra to prove at Leinster too. Not to mention the improvement a player is likely to have when exposed to the elite level test environment. It’s a win/win for everyone. All of our back-rows on the fringes of the test squads are playing out of their skins, while you just look at what Cian Healy has done since being edged out of the Ireland first choice front row.

I hope that this club v country thing creeping into the comments here doesn’t translate to the real world.

[ronk]

I'm clearly wired differently but I never understand Leinster fans on a Leinster forum, discussing our squad for next season, willing even more of our players into Ireland camp.

Because if they are good enough for Ireland then it is great for Leinster. And Ireland.

It’s a formula that won 4 HCs in 10 years.

[Blueberry]

Leinster contributing most of the Irish team is not a bad thing for Leinster, it has driven us to grow a larger squad and our best players are 'comfortable' playing HCUP after internationals - i.e Test is still the ultimate level so it can't be a bad thing.

We have shown we can cope with this and the IRFU player mgmt does keep players fresh better than anywhere else in the world even in a demanding season.

The issue is the growing difference between what Leinster are contributing and the other provinces notably the Munster slide and the weakness up in Ulster as well.

The only way to fix this is 100% focus on bringing through local players up north and down south and growing the effectiveness of their academy input. Longer road than what is currently happening down south for example with the dilution in the Munster squad of 'munster players'.

Nucifora et al moving players around like Carbery is not the fix - leave Leinster be the judge of who we want in our squad from our pool of homegrown players, we have earnt this right and work on encouraging and supporting the academy's in Munster and Ulster not nicking Leinster players.

The reality is that the Leinster Team is close to 'as good' as the Irish national team, Murray and to a lesser extent O'Mahony, Earls and Stockdale are the only really significant players being contributed by other provinces. Murray is arguably the only player that would really make a difference in a Irish v Leinster team.

Ireland's success under Schmidt has largely been supported by the unbelievable success of our province in the last decade.

The failings of the IRFU to recognise the weakness in the other two big provinces 'is the problem' in Irish rugby and while I don't want to harp on about the Carbery move it is a sign that Nucifora doesn't really 'get it'. They need to bring through local players, if the focus is there in time they can start helping Leinster feed the Irish team and this will be better for all.

[ronk]

It’s Nucifora’s job not to get it. He’s implementing a different strategic plan, quietly.

[Keith]

It’s Nucifora’s job not to get it. He’s implementing a different strategic plan, quietly.

Players being moved around at will seriously dilutes the identity of the team. We can see just how much crowds in super rugby have fallen due to this amongst numerous other things, it's a very dangerous path to go down.

[Oldschool]

It’s Nucifora’s job not to get it. He’s implementing a different strategic plan, quietly.

Players being moved around at will seriously dilutes the identity of the team. We can see just how much crowds in super rugby have fallen due to this amongst numerous other things, it's a very dangerous path to go down.

There is a basic problem tho'.
Suppose that Leinster exceed their own requirements by two players.
Those two players are not going to get contracts.
They've three options.
1. Retire from rugby.
2. Emigrate.
3. Move to another province.
A possible, but unlikely fourth option would be to set up another franchise.
So what is to do, the players want options.

[ronk]

If provinces aren’t recruiting then his role is more limited. If he’s identifying projects and diaspora then he’s relevant.

The provincial model has always been supplemented, it’s just been a question of degrees.

[leinsterforever]

Anyone been reading the last few pages of the Irish rugby thread on the planet rugby forum? Seems like Cronin might be in a spot of bother

[riocard911]

Anyone been reading the last few pages of the Irish rugby thread on the planet rugby forum? Seems like Cronin might be in a spot of bother

Just read it. Doesn't sound good. I will make one observation though: In the iconic photo from the Ireland changing room after the Third Test in Sydney everybody - players, coaches, backroom staff etc. - is smiling, cheering and laughing into the camera. Everyone that is except for Sean Cronin. A picture says a thousand words?......

[paddyor]

Anyone been reading the last few pages of the Irish rugby thread on the planet rugby forum? Seems like Cronin might be in a spot of bother

Just read it. Doesn't sound good. I will make one observation though: In the iconic photo from the Ireland changing room after the Third Test in Sydney everybody - players, coaches, backroom staff etc. - is smiling, cheering and laughing into the camera. Everyone that is except for Sean Cronin. A picture says a thousand words?......

He was looking the wrong way FFS.

[FLIP]

Sounds like the fakest of fake news. If someone kicks off on a plane they end up getting arrested at the nearest airport suitable for landing.

The fact that sewa is there trying to link it to roid rage says everything.