Leinster v Munster 2018 Pro14 S/F 19th May RDS

[wixfjord]

And yet the last few posts have been about various players making a massive defensive impact.
Funny but Lowe's name wasn't mentioned in that context.
Selectivity is just that!

Ehm...there's *is* a middleground between being 'atrocious' in defence and 'making a massive defensive impact'!

It doesn't have to be one or the other!

[wixfjord]

Re-watching the Earls try, Larmour doesn't cover himself in glory.

Goes a bit haywire and shoots into the line on a man that shouldn't be his concern, leaving Byrne on his own and Carbery needing to come around to fill the hole.

He's some talent but has a lot to learn still. Doesn't need to make the big play every time.

[Oldschool]

And yet the last few posts have been about various players making a massive defensive impact.
Funny but Lowe's name wasn't mentioned in that context.
Selectivity is just that!

Ehm...there's *is* a middleground between being 'atrocious' in defence and 'making a massive defensive impact'!

It doesn't have to be one or the other!

Let's just both agree with the wise curate and let peace break out.

[wixfjord]

Let's just both agree with the wise curate and let peace break out.

I've said he was tentative and not the finished article.

Uou said he was 'atrocious' defensively which is miles OTT, and then refused to back it up. Each to their own.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Also, yesterday Devin Toner became the first Leinster player to reach 150 appearances in the league.

Also first time that he has taped his ears up for the row.

Thought it was Mark Andrews for a second.

[Oldschool]

Let's just both agree with the wise curate and let peace break out.

I've said he was tentative and not the finished article.

Uou said he was 'atrocious' defensively which is miles OTT, and then refused to back it up. Each to their own.

The only rider I'd put on my 'atrocious' is that it's mostly based on his first half performance because he was on the other side of the pitch (from where I was watching) for the second half.
His first half defensive performance was less than impressive, he was all over the place.
Looking thru the fingers stuff at times!
He's well into his 20s and isn't entitled to the same 'leeway' as the likes of Larmour or Carberry (playing at 15) for that matter.
He's a huge threat in attack, nobody is disputing that.

[wixfjord]

His first half defensive performance was less than impressive,he was all over the place.
Looking thru the fingers stuff at times!

Any examples?

[curates_egg]

I think we really could have used RPG coming on with 30 to go to slicken up the service from scrumhalf

If they accept McGrath is injured, JPR will probably start the final. Wasn't too shabby against Scarlets last time out, was our KPh.

[Mackeroo]

The long kicking from McGrath was a baffling strategy. Put us under a lot of pressure. That and a load of other errors and turnovers.
We should have won a lot more easily. Officials were poor, but we made life difficult for ourselves.
But we won.

Lowe was by far the best attacking player on the pitch. But he also missed at least 2 tackles and is down for 3 turnovers. Made a couple of poor reads but they did target him.
So I think both sides of the argument here protest too much.
Our back three performed just as we expected in fact.

Delighted to win. That performance would see us lose against Scarlets though.

Agree with all of this. Compare our box kicking to Murray's in terms of quality and it was world's apart. Murray gave them a chance to contest/win possession every time. We just booted the ball long and got set for the counter. We looked extremely leggy on Saturday, we should have won more comfortably but thankfully got over the line in the end.

Our lineout was poor, Munster made hay all day either by stealing, disrupting or turning over our lineout maul on their own line.

The positive is obviously the result, but the performance will need to be much better if we're to have a chance of beating Scarlets. In our last 5 matches (Benneton, Scarlets, Connacht, Racing, Munster) the only great performance was against Scarlets in the European semi final, perhaps a long season post Lions tour and Grand Slam exertions are finally taking their toll.

On a completely different note, I thought the self proclaimed Best Fans in The World (TM) were supposed to be somewhat knowledgeable? I had 2 utter morons sitting behind me. They complained about every decision that went our way. I finally called them on their bullshit when Larmour tried to intercept a pass on their penalty advantage and they called for a yellow card. Then they started on about Leinster having a sense of entitlement. They thought Kleyn was hard done by (should have been red) but he was only sin binned because the crowd booed and the ref was a disgrace. They wanted Ross Byrne red carded for tackling Earls as he scored. It really was painful listening to them. They didn't even stay until the end, as soon as Carbery scored the decisive penalty the f**ked off. They really can't cope that we're a better, more successful team than them. It's great!

[Mackeroo]

Who knows whether it was intentionally dirty or what was going through his head, but, tbf to Kleyn, players are put in a very difficult situation being asked to clear out when defenders are in the sort of position that Byrne was in. Like, on the one hand your job is to remove the turnover threat and conversely there's often a head directly in your path.

He needs to be more careful though. Could easily have been red. Probably should have been

From my vantage point it was a red card all day long. In the next ruck immediately after this he had another cheap shot, can't recall on who it was. He also tends to leave the forearm in the face of the player he's just cleaned out.

[mildlyinterested]

The long kicking from McGrath was a baffling strategy. Put us under a lot of pressure. That and a load of other errors and turnovers.
We should have won a lot more easily. Officials were poor, but we made life difficult for ourselves.
But we won.

Lowe was by far the best attacking player on the pitch. But he also missed at least 2 tackles and is down for 3 turnovers. Made a couple of poor reads but they did target him.
So I think both sides of the argument here protest too much.
Our back three performed just as we expected in fact.

Delighted to win. That performance would see us lose against Scarlets though.

Agree with all of this. Compare our box kicking to Murray's in terms of quality and it was world's apart. Murray gave them a chance to contest/win possession every time. We just booted the ball long and got set for the counter. We looked extremely leggy on Saturday, we should have won more comfortably but thankfully got over the line in the end.

Our lineout was poor, Munster made hay all day either by stealing, disrupting or turning over our lineout maul on their own line.

The positive is obviously the result, but the performance will need to be much better if we're to have a chance of beating Scarlets. In our last 5 matches (Benneton, Scarlets, Connacht, Racing, Munster) the only great performance was against Scarlets in the European semi final, perhaps a long season post Lions tour and Grand Slam exertions are finally taking their toll.

On a completely different note, I thought the self proclaimed Best Fans in The World (TM) were supposed to be somewhat knowledgeable? I had 2 utter morons sitting behind me. They complained about every decision that went our way. I finally called them on their bullshit when Larmour tried to intercept a pass on their penalty advantage and they called for a yellow card. Then they started on about Leinster having a sense of entitlement. They thought Kleyn was hard done by (should have been red) but he was only sin binned because the crowd booed and the ref was a disgrace. They wanted Ross Byrne red carded for tackling Earls as he scored. It really was painful listening to them. They didn't even stay until the end, as soon as Carbery scored the decisive penalty the f**ked off. They really can't cope that we're a better, more successful team than them. It's great!

Kicking long could have been a tactic.

[carlow man]

You need to give up and just accept that you got it wrong re Lowe. Guy had a great game. His job is to create and score tries. His defence isn't great but getting better. Well done James!!!!

[molloyjh]

Who knows whether it was intentionally dirty or what was going through his head, but, tbf to Kleyn, players are put in a very difficult situation being asked to clear out when defenders are in the sort of position that Byrne was in. Like, on the one hand your job is to remove the turnover threat and conversely there's often a head directly in your path.

He needs to be more careful though. Could easily have been red. Probably should have been

From my vantage point it was a red card all day long. In the next ruck immediately after this he had another cheap shot, can't recall on who it was. He also tends to leave the forearm in the face of the player he's just cleaned out.

It was Ruddock. He led with the shoulder into Ruddocks ribs after the whistle was blown.

[Oldschool]

You need to give up and just accept that you got it wrong re Lowe. Guy had a great game. His job is to create and score tries. His defence isn't great but getting better. Well done James!!!!

I'll give up when his defence gets up to scratch or whenever other posters give up pretending it's not a problem.
His job is to perform all the duties of a winger.
He had a great game performing some of those duties.

[Fireworks]

I did think the Kleyn card could easily have been red but it was not so blatantly a red that I would complain about it.

The match was tighter than I expected and I am just happy we got the win. We started with some purpose but then appeared to lose our way. There must be still a hangover from the Racing game, literally and metaphorically. We will need a much improved performance for the final or it could be a very tough day. Scarlets will have learnt from their last visit to Dublin.

[Fireworks]

I have a question around stopping the clock. Just to be clear I have no issue with this but think it is an interesting anomaly.

In that game Munster got their late try with just over a minute to go. The ref stopped the clock to go to the TMO. When he awarded the try and started the clock again Keatley was set up for the conversion and took it immediately which allowed for a restart. Had the try been scored in the corner with no need to go to the TMO the clock would not have been stopped and it may have taken more that the remaining time to collected the ball and take the kick.

Should a team be allowed to benefit from the TMO stopped clock.

[wixfjord]

You can bang on about the card all you want but inky one player was stretchered off due to illegal play and he was in red. I'm sure Luke McGrath didn't intend the injury he caused to JOD but there it is, illegally bound in the ruck and a promising young player facing a potentially career ending injury.

Are you honestly comparing what Kleyn did to the accident that caused JOD's injury? I mean I'm biased, but that's taking it to a whole new level.

One was a no arms flying entrance into a ruck that caused a head on head collission. I'm not even sure what you're accusing Luke McGrath of, but jaysus dude, that's reaching.

[mildlyinterested]

Who knows whether it was intentionally dirty or what was going through his head, but, tbf to Kleyn, players are put in a very difficult situation being asked to clear out when defenders are in the sort of position that Byrne was in. Like, on the one hand your job is to remove the turnover threat and conversely there's often a head directly in your path.

He needs to be more careful though. Could easily have been red. Probably should have been

From my vantage point it was a red card all day long. In the next ruck immediately after this he had another cheap shot, can't recall on who it was. He also tends to leave the forearm in the face of the player he's just cleaned out.

You can bang on about the card all you want but inky one player was stretchered off due to illegal play and he was in red. I'm sure Luke McGrath didn't intend the injury he caused to JOD but there it is, illegally bound in the ruck and a promising young player facing a potentially career ending injury.

[Dave Cahill]

I have a question around stopping the clock. Just to be clear I have no issue with this but think it is an interesting anomaly.

In that game Munster got their late try with just over a minute to go. The ref stopped the clock to go to the TMO. When he awarded the try and started the clock again Keatley was set up for the conversion and took it immediately which allowed for a restart. Had the try been scored in the corner with no need to go to the TMO the clock would not have been stopped and it may have taken more that the remaining time to collected the ball and take the kick.

Should a team be allowed to benefit from the TMO stopped clock.

The opposite of that is should a team be punished because the ref has to go to the TMO?

I would imagine that had the try been scored in the corner as you suggest with time as it was, they would have either gone for a quick drop or declined the conversion and play would have had to restart (once the conversion is attempted before time elapses there must be a restart - so if they took a quick drop and the kicker strikes the ball before 80:00:00 then the game restarts)

[the spoofer]

It would have been interesting if Lowe had fallen and Leinster hadn't scored the try as there was a clear foot trip by Zebo on Lowe. Looked like a certain PT and a yellow card.