Pre-Season 2018/19

[Ruckedtobits]

42 17 to Newcastle. That was pretty awful. It was hard to pick out any good performances. Luke McGrath looked sharp when he came on. Mick Kearney wasn’t great for the time he was on. Defense all around was dreadful.

It certainly wasn't good but it wasn't that bad. We lost Frawley with a wrist / forearm early in the game. We brought on Tom Daly at out-half and they scored four tries through the 10 / 12 channel, each orchestrated through a very in-form Toby Flood. We also lost Will Connors very early, replaced on the flank by Deegan.

Falcons more or less played the same team all the way through** and were better than us, particularly in defence and protection of possession. We turned over possession in the tackle and missed one-up tackles regularly - even Fardy and Tomane - and generally didn't look like we knew whether we should be trying to execute the process or compete for a victory. Our line-out was very poor until Molony and Brian Byrne arrived.

Not a typical pre-season performance from Leinster and no star performances. Mick Kearney make the odd mistake, but put in the effort. This guy needs real rugby - not more training. Our back-row forwards must be coming onto the ball not wrestling for it going backwards. Tomane and O'Loughlin need time together and both need to find Barry Daly with the quality passes that both are capable of.

Richards came for a win in pre-season and got it. Cullen and Lancaster were trying to assess whether our third-string pack could stand a stern examination and they can't. Without an out-half it was impossible to draw any other conclusions about Leinster. But nobody will bully Newcastle this season.

** Post-match reports say Newcastle made 10+ changes at half-time. No such changes were notified to those in attendance and the players numbers remained at, largely. 1-15. It certainly appeared as much the same team until last 15 mins.

[cormac]

Newcastle changed most of their team at half-time. The 10-12 defensive channel was abysmal. Tom Daly had a mare at 10.

[riocard911]

42 17 to Newcastle. That was pretty awful. It was hard to pick out any good performances. Luke McGrath looked sharp when he came on. Mick Kearney wasn’t great for the time he was on. Defense all around was dreadful.

Well that performance will certainly give the coaches food for thought, considering Hugh Hogan in his video blurb this week made a big point about how improving defence and not leaking soft tries were a priority for the coming season. Work in progress it would seem...

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Newcastle changed most of their team at half-time. The 10-12 defensive channel was abysmal. Tom Daly had a mare at 10.

Couldn't make it tonight but that's incredibly sh!t for Daly. Having been injured so much he really shouldn't be asked to do anything other than play at 12 so that he has every opportunity possible to make it. His confidence must be really low at the moment and putting him at ten just seems cruel. I'm aware of all the reasons why it happened tonight and I'm not particularly blaming the coaches given that their hands were tied to a large degree but I just feel really bad for the guy.

Given our outhalf situation at the moment I'd actually have put JGP at ten. I'm not suggesting that we develop him as an outhalf, but I can foresee more scenarios where he might potentially move out there, and he's comfortable with carrying the ball to the line and obviously has great skills so suits our style of play, especially given that his potential brief appearances at ten would likely be in the less important league games.

Sounds like it might have been a good night got Harry Byrne, wouldn't back against him making a fair few appearances this season now.

[cormac]

Newcastle changed most of their team at half-time. The 10-12 defensive channel was abysmal. Tom Daly had a mare at 10.

Couldn't make it tonight but that's incredibly sh!t for Daly. Having been injured so much he really shouldn't be asked to do anything other than play at 12 so that he has every opportunity possible to make it. His confidence must be really low at the moment and putting him at ten just seems cruel. I'm aware of all the reasons why it happened tonight and I'm not particularly blaming the coaches given that their hands were tied to a large degree but I just feel really bad for the guy.

Given our outhalf situation at the moment I'd actually have put JGP at ten. I'm not suggesting that we develop him as an outhalf, but I can foresee more scenarios where he might potentially move out there, and he's comfortable with carrying the ball to the line and obviously has great skills so suits our style of play, especially given that his potential brief appearances at ten would likely be in the less important league games.

Sounds like it might have been a good night got Harry Byrne, wouldn't back against him making a fair few appearances this season now.

I feel a bit cr@p having a go at Daly as he's had some serious injury issues and he's not a 10, but our midfield was constantly ripped apart. Hard to tell without replays as to who was at fault but Daly appeared to be completely caught out in no-man's land by some fairly basic Newcastle passing. Not sure what happened to Jimmy O'Brien. Thought he was supposed to be on the bench but he didn't feature.

[hugonaut]

Newcastle changed most of their team at half-time. The 10-12 defensive channel was abysmal. Tom Daly had a mare at 10.

Couldn't make it tonight but that's incredibly sh!t for Daly. Having been injured so much he really shouldn't be asked to do anything other than play at 12 so that he has every opportunity possible to make it. His confidence must be really low at the moment and putting him at ten just seems cruel. I'm aware of all the reasons why it happened tonight and I'm not particularly blaming the coaches given that their hands were tied to a large degree but I just feel really bad for the guy.

Given our outhalf situation at the moment I'd actually have put JGP at ten. I'm not suggesting that we develop him as an outhalf, but I can foresee more scenarios where he might potentially move out there, and he's comfortable with carrying the ball to the line and obviously has great skills so suits our style of play, especially given that his potential brief appearances at ten would likely be in the less important league games.

Sounds like it might have been a good night got Harry Byrne, wouldn't back against him making a fair few appearances this season now.

I feel a bit cr@p having a go at Daly as he's had some serious injury issues and he's not a 10, but our midfield was constantly ripped apart. Hard to tell without replays as to who was at fault but Daly appeared to be completely caught out in no-man's land by some fairly basic Newcastle passing. Not sure what happened to Jimmy O'Brien. Thought he was supposed to be on the bench but he didn't feature.

It might be a bit of a devil's advocacy, but I came away from that game pretty hopeful for Daly's season. He's got a decent kicking game for a No12 - from the ground, restarts and out of hand – and he's big [as big as Max Deegan], strong and athletic; he showed a bit of pace and then hauled a couple of people over the line for his try, and he was an arm's reach from getting one about five minutes before that. That came late in the match and I thought that the way he backed himself to score showed that he hadn't gone into his shell.

He made plenty of bad reads in defense and he isn't particularly crafty at making space for other players ... but he's not an outhalf and never has been. I'm pretty sure Locko or Joe Tomane would have looked just as bad if they'd been put in that situation. Locko had a poor enough game in his own position! Tomane was good though, he's a really useful addition to the team.

Barry Daly and Luke McGrath looked sharp. Brave Dave Kearney made last ditch tackles on both touchlines, contriving to get his head on the wrong side both times. Love the attitude, seriously worried about the technique. I thought that Mick Kearney's first half was pretty good, no real complaints from this quarter. Bentos put in a good shift in the first half – just a valuable guy to have in the squad. Fardy had a slow start compared to his form last season. The backrow weren't effective either as a collective or as individuals, but it was a young group [Doris is 20, Deegan 21 and Murphy 23] and the balance was upset with Will Connors coming off injured after 2 minutes. They'll improve.

Not a good performance overall. Newcastle looked sharper and stronger and were definitely deserving of the win.

[cormac]

Thought the game was summed up by one of Newcastle's second-half tries. The pack initially repelled a rolling maul from 5m then held out against repeated close in drives from the Newcastle forwards. This went on for close to a minute but as soon as Newcastle released it to their backs they waltzed in for an easy try despite us matching up with numbers in defence.

[Dave Cahill]

Thought the game was summed up by one of Newcastle's second-half tries. The pack initially repelled a rolling maul from 5m then held out against repeated close in drives from the Newcastle forwards. This went on for close to a minute but as soon as Newcastle released it to their backs they waltzed in for an easy try despite us matching up with numbers in defence.

It was a nice line though, and well disguised with lots of other players active. It'd be a nice move to purloin

[molloyjh]

Anyone want to mention the demolition job we did on their scrum in the second half? There weren’t a whole tonne of positives, so flagging that one is surely important.

Tomane looked like he lacked fitness, which I suppose is understandable coming from France. Newcastle played some pacy, impressive stuff at times. And, without the benefit or replays, it looked to me like all 3 of our 10-12-13 boys struggled with the defensive system. Again, understandable for Daly at 10 and for Tomane due to inexperience in the set up. Having the 2 guys inside him struggle was never going to help ROL, although having made a couple of good reads he fell off the tackle too easily at times.

There isn’t much to say about our attacking game. It was pretty lateral, with a lot of crashing it up. That said, I was impressed with our physicality going into contact at times. Luke played well when he came in, injecting some real pace and urgency into things. I also thought Daly looked sharp. Dave was hungry and I’d like to see him link up with Lowe a bit this season. One of our best breaks came from a switch from the two of them. Hugo Keenan mixed the good with the bad. Looked a bit shaky in the air and in defence, but good going forward.

The forwards were disappointing in open play. Our back row simply never got a foothold and almost any time we went to a forward as first receiver he was hit behind the line. We need Rhys fit until we get some internationals back. Being without VDF, Leavy, Conan and SOB is bad enough. We can’t afford to lose Rhys too. The line out was a mess in the first half. A few crooked darts from Tracy stood out, but we even had at least 1 case of utter confusion where nobody even got up. There’s a lot of work to be done there. If we can get that sorted we should have a good set price to build from.

It’s also worth noting that Newcastle were good. Ambitious, determined and accurate in the main. They could have been further ahead at half time but for some understandable pre-season inaccuracies, but generally they executed on both sides of the ball well.

[BlueBlue]

It might be a bit of a devil's advocacy, but I came away from that game pretty hopeful for Daly's season. He's got a decent kicking game for a No12 - from the ground, restarts and out of hand – and he's big [as big as Max Deegan], strong and athletic; he showed a bit of pace and then hauled a couple of people over the line for his try, and he was an arm's reach from getting one about five minutes before that. That came late in the match and I thought that the way he backed himself to score showed that he hadn't gone into his shell.

He made plenty of bad reads in defense and he isn't particularly crafty at making space for other players ... but he's not an outhalf and never has been. I'm pretty sure Locko or Joe Tomane would have looked just as bad if they'd been put in that situation. Locko had a poor enough game in his own position! Tomane was good though, he's a really useful addition to the team.

Barry Daly and Luke McGrath looked sharp. Brave Dave Kearney made last ditch tackles on both touchlines, contriving to get his head on the wrong side both times. Love the attitude, seriously worried about the technique. I thought that Mick Kearney's first half was pretty good, no real complaints from this quarter. Bentos put in a good shift in the first half – just a valuable guy to have in the squad. Fardy had a slow start compared to his form last season. The backrow weren't effective either as a collective or as individuals, but it was a young group [Doris is 20, Deegan 21 and Murphy 23] and the balance was upset with Will Connors coming off injured after 2 minutes. They'll improve.

Not a good performance overall. Newcastle looked sharper and stronger and were definitely deserving of the win.

I agree with these comments and I think its a fairly accurate, balanced view of the game. Daly did well, I came away from the game impressed with his as a player, a 12. I wasn't impressed by him as a 10, but that's no surprise to me given the player and the circumstances. So I'm not going to judge him on that, he played like a 12 in the 10 position but I can see his potential at 12. Backrow due to imbalance and inexperience were not in the game, no back row and you are in for a disappointing night. Locks did ok to well, Maloney brought a lot of leadership. Front rows did well. Bent is worth his weight in gold. Locky had a quite game. wings Daly and Hugo were good. Adam Byrne has a lot to do this year and Dave Kearney, just great to see him back.

Newcastle were excellent, I'd also say they are at least 2 weeks ahead of us in prep, which is typical when you meet and English team this time of year.

[wixfjord]

Daly would be a good asset to us if he could improve his defence a bit. Seems to have a recurring issue with slipping off tackles and poor positioning.

He's an absolute monster though. Couldn't believe how big he was the other day!

[Leinsterlunatic]

I wonder if there's a possibility of us taking on an out-half on a short term contract if Frawley's injury is bad enough.

Any AIL players, or maybe get Marsh back?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I was wondering that too and the name I keep coming back to is Keatley. They can't be from NZ/Oz, and we need someone to be able to start work within the next week. JJ started for them last week, Bill Johnston is likely to start the next game by the sounds of things, and then Joey will be back soon. Doesn't sound like Tyler B will be back any time soon but they're still well stocked anyway.

Not saying he's a great option, but I'd bite their hand off for him now, makes sense for everyone involved IMO.

[Oldschool]

I was wondering that too and the name I keep coming back to is Keatley. They can't be from NZ/Oz, and we need someone to be able to start work within the next week. JJ started for them last week, Bill Johnston is likely to start the next game by the sounds of things, and then Joey will be back soon. Doesn't sound like Tyler B will be back any time soon but they're still well stocked anyway.

Not saying he's a great option, but I'd bite their hand off for him now, makes sense for everyone involved IMO.

Keatley has always been an interesting player, development wise.
Have often wondered if he'd experienced Joe as a coach would he have developed differently.
When you use the expression'bite your hand off' I'd agree with you. But by the same token, we're I Keatley I'd be giving the same hand to be coached by Burt.

[leinsterforever]

Marsh has to be injured, surely? Can't see why they wouldn't call him up if he isn't

Edit: Jimmy O'Brien the best bet at 10 otherwise? - based purely on what I've read online about the two warm-up games

[fourthirtythree]

Marsh was injured all the times we desperately needed him in the past couple of years with the Sexton and Carbery shenanigans and was injured when he was released from the squad AFAIK.

[hugonaut]

Marsh has to be injured, surely? Can't see why they wouldn't call him up if he isn't

Edit: Jimmy O'Brien the best bet at 10 otherwise? - based purely on what I've read online about the two warm-up games

Agree with you on Jimmy, but have to disagree with you on Marsh.

I think I'm in the minority on the board on this issue, but I just don't rate Marsh as a pro. Never have. To be frank, I've no interest in seeing him in Leinster colours again.

He's 26 and neither a proven player at pro level nor a guy who was an outstanding talent as a youngster, but missed out on his shot with Leinster because of injury/maturity/NIQs/sundry issues. He's had six years - three years in the senior squad! – at Leinster to make a case for himself, and he just didn't. He didn't break a grape. Giving him a contract would, in my opinion, be a backwards step for the organisation. You've got to move these guys on when they're not performing, open up a spot for somebody to come in and try and add something to the squad.

From my perspective, it makes sense that your fourth choice outhalf [in any pro squad] should cover more than one position. Unless you've got a really talented kid – a teenager who you want to tie up so he doesn't go elsewhere, for example – it doesn't make sense to carry a one-position player that far down the depth chart in a backline position. There's a gametime basis for that line of thinking, there's an opportunity/progress basis for it, and there's an economic basis for it.

With Frawley injured, I think it should come to either Noel Reid or Jimmy O'Brien at No10. Reider has way more experience of how our systems work, because he has been in the senior set-up for five/six seasons. On the other hand, Jimmy has probably played more rugby at outhalf in the recent past. We also need somebody to kick goals, so if Ferg isn't ready for the start of the season, there's another thorny issue to contend with there.

[Peg Leg]

Marsh has to be injured, surely? Can't see why they wouldn't call him up if he isn't

Edit: Jimmy O'Brien the best bet at 10 otherwise? - based purely on what I've read online about the two warm-up games

I think I'm in the minority on the board on this issue, but I just don't rate Marsh as a pro. Never have. To be frank, I've no interest in seeing him in Leinster colours again.

He's 26 and neither a proven player at pro level nor a guy who was an outstanding talent as a youngster, but missed out on his shot with Leinster because of injury/maturity/NIQs/sundry issues. He's had six years - three years in the senior squad....

With Frawley injured, I think it should come to either Noel Reid or Jimmy O'Brien at No10. Reider has way more experience of how our systems work....

Not to nit pick (I agree with you), but did you not say something similar RE: Noel Reid last year?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

For me it depends on Ross Byrne's availability and the severity of Frawley's injury. If he's back next week or the week after and Frawley could be back in contention in 3 weeks or so then fine we could struggle on with Reid, Harry Byrne, and (IMO) JGP covering ten. But if Frawley is out until October (which wouldn't surprise me but is pure speculation) and Ross Byrne isn't supposed to be back for the first couple of rounds and will be managed a lot over the next couple of months then I'd take Marsh, Keatley, or ROG if it meant we had a proper ten available consistently.

The other big unknown from a fan's POV is how often the Ireland players will be available. When Joey moved I expected Ross to be available for the start of the season but the get together in Carton House makes me think that this season will be very different to before. There seemed to be a huge number of players at it. You had the likes of Gav Thornbury and a good few others who wouldn't have been expected to be there. My hunch is that they were gathered together and told that they're the group who will be preparing to win the world cup. Whether that means that they're first choice, playing Italy in Chicago, holding pads, or helping the first team with video analysis or opposition work, they have a part to play. That's just my opinion, but I think we'll see Ireland take preference in a way that we haven't in the past.

Whether we pull the trigger or not, I'd be shocked in Leinster didn't have tens lined up from the moment Joey left.

[leinsterforever]

Marsh has to be injured, surely? Can't see why they wouldn't call him up if he isn't

Edit: Jimmy O'Brien the best bet at 10 otherwise? - based purely on what I've read online about the two warm-up games

Agree with you on Jimmy, but have to disagree with you on Marsh.

I think I'm in the minority on the board on this issue, but I just don't rate Marsh as a pro. Never have. To be frank, I've no interest in seeing him in Leinster colours again.

He's 26 and neither a proven player at pro level nor a guy who was an outstanding talent as a youngster, but missed out on his shot with Leinster because of injury/maturity/NIQs/sundry issues. He's had six years - three years in the senior squad! – at Leinster to make a case for himself, and he just didn't. He didn't break a grape. Giving him a contract would, in my opinion, be a backwards step for the organisation. You've got to move these guys on when they're not performing, open up a spot for somebody to come in and try and add something to the squad.

From my perspective, it makes sense that your fourth choice outhalf [in any pro squad] should cover more than one position. Unless you've got a really talented kid – a teenager who you want to tie up so he doesn't go elsewhere, for example – it doesn't make sense to carry a one-position player that far down the depth chart in a backline position. There's a gametime basis for that line of thinking, there's an opportunity/progress basis for it, and there's an economic basis for it.

With Frawley injured, I think it should come to either Noel Reid or Jimmy O'Brien at No10. Reider has way more experience of how our systems work, because he has been in the senior set-up for five/six seasons. On the other hand, Jimmy has probably played more rugby at outhalf in the recent past. We also need somebody to kick goals, so if Ferg isn't ready for the start of the season, there's another thorny issue to contend with there.

Events kind of conspired against Marsh, I feel. First, MOC was the coach just when he was coming through and needed a bit of exposure. O'Connor didn't really do picking young backs, and especially halves. Wasn't there some crazy stat that there were no starts for backs under 25 for months on end (I don't remember the exact timeframe). Marsh was left kicking his heels when he needed to be brought through like Madigan was under Schmidt.

Then there were the injuries at just the wrong times.

I thought his performances were actually very encouraging in the early league games in Cullen's first year. He disappeared out of the final Champions Cup pool game against Wasps when he replaced Sexton early, but that game was just a general shitshow. 50 points! Hard to imagine that now

He's an fine running ten - and I don't mean that in the sense that he makes line breaks himself, but rather that he brings others into the game and puts them into holes. That performance off the bench away to Scarlets in Cullen's first year was very impressive. He completely changed the shape of the attack when he replaced Byrne for the final half hour or so. He's a really good passer.

He's never really got a shot since the resurgence under Lancaster started. And that's the thing. Could he be better than he's shown so far if he was playing in a side performing much better than previously?

One other thing to consider is where Frawley ends up. It's far from certain that outhalf will be his best position. What if the best way to use him turns out to be mostly at 15 with a handful of games at 10, a la Carbery?

All moot anyway I suppose, unless he is fit and gets called back in