Celtic Cup

[dropkick]

Might just be bad timing for Ryan. There seems to be a more lads who are 6'6 or more, around now. Cormac Daly was unlucky too.

Daly was and wasn't.. he never cemented his place as 1st choice for the 20s.. and it wasn't exactly a strong 20s group..

Another year he might have made the academy. You could say the same for Paul Boyle who missed out last year.

[mildlyinterested]

I don't know.. Boyle made the Connacht academy and was 1st choice for the 20s. Daly didn't make another academy and was not 1st choice for the 20s.

If you aren't 1st choice for the 20s is very unlikely you will make the academy.

[TrapperChamonix]

Dragons A

Dragons A (v Leinster A):Carwyn Penny, Calvin Wellington, Tom Hoppe, James Benjamin, Deon Smith, Jacob Botica, Rhodri Davies; Josh Reynolds, Rhys Lawrence, Chris Coleman, Joe Davies, Matthew Screech, James Thomas, Lennon Greggains (c), Taine Basham

Replacements: Zac Hewlett, Scott Evans, Luke Yendle, Max Williams, Ben Fry, Dafydd Buckland, George Gasson, Will Kelly


Not sure I recognise any of them

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster Rugby ‘A’

15. Jack Kelly CAPTAIN
14. Adam Byrne
13. Jimmy O’Brien
12. Conor O’Brien
11. Michael Silvester(U21)
10. Ciarán Frawley
9. Nick McCarthy
1. Michael Milne(U20)
2. Ronan Kelleher(U21)
3. Vakh Abdaladze
4. Charlie Ryan(U20)
5. Jack Dunne(U21)
6. Josh Murphy
7. Scott Penny(U20)
8. Caelan Doris(U21)

16. Dan Sheehan(U21)
17. Giuseppe Coyne(U20)
18. Jack Aungier(U21)
19. Ryan Baird(U20)
20. Ronan Watters(U20)
21. Patrick Patterson(U21)
22. David Hawkshaw(U20)
23. Liam Turner(U20)

[Ruckedtobits]

Leinster Rugby ‘A’

15. Jack Kelly CAPTAIN
14. Adam Byrne
13. Jimmy O’Brien
12. Conor O’Brien
11. Michael Silvester(U21)
10. Ciarán Frawley
9. Nick McCarthy
1. Michael Milne(U20)
2. Ronan Kelleher(U21)
3. Vakh Abdaladze
4. Charlie Ryan(U20)
5. Jack Dunne(U21)
6. Josh Murphy
7. Scott Penny(U20)
8. Caelan Doris(U21)

16. Dan Sheehan(U21)
17. Giuseppe Coyne(U20)
18. Jack Aungier(U21)
19. Ryan Baird(U20)
20. Ronan Watters(U20)
21. Patrick Patterson(U21)
22. David Hawkshaw(U20)
23. Liam Turner(U20)

Very good team ans well worth supporting to have a glimpse into the future. Jack Kelly proving to be a good captain and now coming back to the form that made him a Schools super-star. The pack has many potential stars and even a couple on the bench.

[leinsterforever]

Keenan and Harry Byrne injured or just not selected?

Very good team ans well worth supporting to have a glimpse into the future. Jack Kelly proving to be a good captain and now coming back to the form that made him a Schools super-star. The pack has many potential stars and even a couple on the bench.

It's great for these players that they're getting a run of games. It was probably more difficult to get into any sort of rhythm in the old B&I Cup format

[cormac]

Byrne picked up an arm injury in the home game v Cardiff A. He played on for a while with it before being substituted but I'd wager that's what has kept him out since.

[hugonaut]

Leinster Rugby ‘A’

15. Jack Kelly CAPTAIN
14. Adam Byrne
13. Jimmy O’Brien
12. Conor O’Brien
11. Michael Silvester(U21)
10. Ciarán Frawley
9. Nick McCarthy
1. Michael Milne(U20)
2. Ronan Kelleher(U21)
3. Vakh Abdaladze
4. Charlie Ryan(U20)
5. Jack Dunne(U21)
6. Josh Murphy
7. Scott Penny(U20)
8. Caelan Doris(U21)

16. Dan Sheehan(U21)
17. Giuseppe Coyne(U20)
18. Jack Aungier(U21)
19. Ryan Baird(U20)
20. Ronan Watters(U20)
21. Patrick Patterson(U21)
22. David Hawkshaw(U20)
23. Liam Turner(U20)

Very good team ans well worth supporting to have a glimpse into the future. Jack Kelly proving to be a good captain and now coming back to the form that made him a Schools super-star. The pack has many potential stars and even a couple on the bench.

I think five of that starting pack will be capped before RWC23 - Milne, Kelleher, Dunne, Penny and Doris. From what I've heard Ryan Baird could be the most talented of them all.

I wouldn't normally be so outspoken with regards to this type of prediction [because I don't like being proven wrong!] but there are some exceptional physical talents there, and more and more that's what is required to get capped in the pack: outstanding athletic ability as the structure to which skills are added.

At the start of the pro era [turn of the century], there was a significant degree of wastage between age-grade and pro level. Guys would either get injured [think of the likes of Scally, Gibney, Travers, Lacey from the mid-to-late 90s] and have to retire, or they didn't respond well to a professional environment and didn't maximise their abilities [to pick one from a number, Des Dillon].

That doesn't happen as much these days. Talented lads who are viewed as not having a compatible attitude with the organisation aren't indulged. Giving examples might come across as finger-pointing, but I think it's worthwhile to illustrate the point. Harry Brewer was let go from the Academy after a year. Eoghan McKeever didn't get in. Leinster didn't chase Belvo's 2016 Senior Cup hero James McKeown, who scored five tries between the semi-final and final that year, when he headed to Australia. That used to be enough to get you capped!

On the former point, when young players pick up injuries these days, they don't just disappear from training and visit a regular physio once a week – they're operated on, given full daily attention by a number of specialists who are employed solely for that purpose [the Sub-Academy has a dedicated S&C coach, performance nutritionist and physiotherapist, never mind the Academy], and probably spend more time training and in Leinster facilities than their match-ready team-mates. Maybe even more significantly, they're not asked to play while injured.

There's always going to be a degree of 'wastage' [for want of a better term], but one of the unspoken strengths of the Academy has been its continuing efforts to minimise same. The Sub-Academy is an effective screen to see if young players have the physical ability and the mental application that the organisation is looking for. Of course, some players don't make it past that barrier but still go on to have pro careers [Barry Daly, for example]. It's not a perfect funnel, and there are different routes to the top.

The Leinster pathway [including a number of, but not all, schools] has become efficient in coaching skills to a reasonably high level, especially in the key open play areas for forwards [tackling, rucking, jackalling, ball placement, carrying into contact/gainline fight]. The Academy has become more effective in terms of its S&C development, injury prevention and rehabilitation, diet and nutrition, and work/play balance; it's position-specific skill training has been of a high standard for a number of years, but they're still trying to inch it higher ... the big easy gains have all been had. The Leinster culture at professional level [under the current staff] seems to inculcate a strong work ethic, a healthy degree of constructive criticism from within the peer-group and a team-first mentality.

My point is that 'the system' [TIP, Sub-Academy, Academy, Provincial squad] is working efficiently, even very efficiently. Talented guys don't get chewed up or fouled up very often these days, particularly in the pack, where performances are more reliant on effort and application, rather than spontaneity or 'form'. If they avoid serious injury - injury that compromises their peak athletic performance in the long term – and repeat concussions, there's a reasonably good chance that those six lads mentioned above will come close to fulfilling their potential in rugby. That's a very healthy situation.

[mildlyinterested]

can't disagree with anything said there really.

[Ruckedtobits]

A seriously good analysis of what's working and how much of what's working has been learned from experience. This is an excellent summary of the distance both Munster and Ulster Academies have to travel to optimise the output from their Academies.

Forget about the demographic arguments and concentrate on optimising the performances of those that you have recruited into your Academies.

[cormac]

There was an international U-21 tournament on in Sydney at the same time as the Lions Tour in 2001. I went along to watch Ireland play England and I'd never seen a player change a game as much as Des Dillon did when he came on as a sub that day. Unfortunately for every great thing Dillon did, Jeremy Staunton would do something to mess it up. Came away from the match utterly convinced Dillon was going to be a superstar. What a colossal waste of talent.

[Serb]

There was an international U-21 tournament on in Sydney at the same time as the Lions Tour in 2001. I went along to watch Ireland play England and I'd never seen a player change a game as much as Des Dillon did when he came on as a sub that day. Unfortunately for every great thing Dillon did, Jeremy Staunton would do something to mess it up. Came away from the match utterly convinced Dillon was going to be a superstar. What a colossal waste of talent.

I remember Dillon tearing it up for Clongowes in the SCT back in the day. He was very hyped up at the time. I didn’t follow Leinster closely back then, but see that he got 50+ caps for us. What happened to him?

[cormac]

He wasn't what you would call a model professional.

[johng]

From a spy at the game in ystrad mynach. "Artificial pitch. Been drizzle here for some of day but dried up now. About 100 spectators."

Drags 14 Leinster 7. Pretty even so far. Drags have big pack and it’s telling in the tight.

[johng]

D 21 L 12 at h/t. L throwing too many skip passes; D looking for interception every time. Harsh words needed in dressing room. Doris is a beast and best forward on pitch.

[johng]

L just taken lead 26-31.

[johng]

5 tries. 15 mins left

[johng]

D 29 L 31. L have pen on 22, going for touch

[johng]

Held up on line scrum 5m
Doris bulldozes over for try!
Conversion missed

[johng]

5 to go. Another try for L. 29-41.