PRO14 Home Attendances

[Theleinsterlad]

I felt like writing this topic as I have been feeling a little miffed at the comments that have been made about Leinsters team that was put out against Cardiff on Friday night. Pundits and supporters seems to indicate that our team selection has a direct impact on whether teams like Cardiff etc are able to fill their stadiums with fans in the knowledge that we are unlikely to field our superstars for the match!

I have been going to Leinster games right back to the interpros when you'd be delighted to see a couple of thousand at the game (granted we enjoyed the Bective end to be continuously liquidated as we stood at the terrace watching!). Our attendance was small and even when the H cup started numbers still were small compared to now. It has to be given to the drivers and marketer's within Leinster that they sold a vision to the now 18,000 odd supporters that regularly go to the games as well as the 50,000 odd that fill Aviva for the big matches. This to my eyes didn't happen overnight and plus didn't come from us knowing what players were playing. I buy extra tickets for Leinster Munster, because its leinster Munster - the team selection makes no impact on me wanting to be there to shout the team on.

I don't go to any of the other PRO14 games with the thoughts will Hogg play for Warriors, will Davies play for Scarlets. I might be wrong but I don't think most other supporters do either. It's actually funny that I now look forward to seeing our possible hot new prospects more than I do the current international crop (last year couldn't wait to see Porter and how he progressed and the same with larmour). We are very lucky in Ireland that all the provinces have built up a very strong rivalry and you know for definite, no matter when the match is on the grounds will be full or near to full. You look at the Welsh regions and they don't get the same and for that the blame should lie squarely on their shoulders. I'm extremely impressed with the progress Glasgow have made in the last couple of years and it is rare now when games are on TV that their stadium doesn't look close to sold out. All these clubs should realise they are selling an experience and a healthy safe place for families to come and watch some great sport.

God that felt good to get this off my chest.

Ps. anyone know if Moriarty is playing for Dragons next week. If not I'm definitely not going!!

[Oldschool]

I felt like writing this topic as I have been feeling a little miffed at the comments that have been made about Leinsters team that was put out against Cardiff on Friday night. Pundits and supporters seems to indicate that our team selection has a direct impact on whether teams like Cardiff etc are able to fill their stadiums with fans in the knowledge that we are unlikely to field our superstars for the match!

I have been going to Leinster games right back to the interpros when you'd be delighted to see a couple of thousand at the game (granted we enjoyed the Bective end to be continuously liquidated as we stood at the terrace watching!). Our attendance was small and even when the H cup started numbers still were small compared to now. It has to be given to the drivers and marketer's within Leinster that they sold a vision to the now 18,000 odd supporters that regularly go to the games as well as the 50,000 odd that fill Aviva for the big matches. This to my eyes didn't happen overnight and plus didn't come from us knowing what players were playing. I buy extra tickets for Leinster Munster, because its leinster Munster - the team selection makes no impact on me wanting to be there to shout the team on.

I don't go to any of the other PRO14 games with the thoughts will Hogg play for Warriors, will Davies play for Scarlets. I might be wrong but I don't think most other supporters do either. It's actually funny that I now look forward to seeing our possible hot new prospects more than I do the current international crop (last year couldn't wait to see Porter and how he progressed and the same with larmour). We are very lucky in Ireland that all the provinces have built up a very strong rivalry and you know for definite, no matter when the match is on the grounds will be full or near to full. You look at the Welsh regions and they don't get the same and for that the blame should lie squarely on their shoulders. I'm extremely impressed with the progress Glasgow have made in the last couple of years and it is rare now when games are on TV that their stadium doesn't look close to sold out. All these clubs should realise they are selling an experience and a healthy safe place for families to come and watch some great sport.

God that felt good to get this off my chest.

Ps. anyone know if Moriarty is playing for Dragons next week. If not I'm definitely not going!!

Have to say that's a great post.
Personally I don't give a fiddler's curse who our opponents are or who they've selected and that includes Jonah Lomu (in bygone days)
I love to see the younger players getting a chance and Mildly has been particularly helpful in this regard with his regularly updates on who to look out for.

[OTT]

To be honest I prefer when the opposition are weakened when we play them anything that increases our chances of a win sits well with me. I would think Cardiff fans much preferred facing the Leinster team named last week then one including all the rested players. They nearly won ffs.

There were over 9k (reported) at the match I think that is a big attendance for them the stadium holds about 12k I believe, so it was 75% full. If they win a few matches which is looking likely and nearly happened on Friday then they will get those attendances up even higher.

A problem we have in the league is that some of the teams are in ridiculous sized stadiums for the size of their support base (actual support base not the mythical one) Ospreys 20,827, Munster 25,600 and Scarlets 14,870 are always going to struggle to fill their ground for a run of the mill league game the casual fan just does not have the interest or commitment, not having a go either we are in the same boat trying to fill our appropriately sized stadium for an average game and we have a much larger local population to try and get through the turnstiles.

None of it has anything to do with the Leinster Globetrotters turning up or not turning up its just the way it is, big game = higher demand, game of lesser importance = lower demand. Win games = increased interest, lose games = lets go for pints/dinner/ sleep instead of wasting money watching that rubbish.

I think the league attendances are increasing generally from what I can remember (maybe bar the Italians) I think blockhead put up a post somewhere about it at the end of the season just gone.

The articles questioning a teams selection policy are all just clickbait ones from the usual suspects pundit arena/rugby pass (some decent stuff on occasion)/joe.ie/extra.ie you can see from comments that no one is buying what they are selling.

[Flash Gordon]

I think for hard core supporters like many on this board it doesn't matter which players are on the park but let's be honest, people pick their games based upon the tournament, the opposition and maybe the players available. As for Cardiff, their attendance last weekend was up by 30%+ vs last year's opening fixture. They are a club with a big history in a rugby country but our average gate is considerably higher than their stadium capacity, they probably need to look at themselves before throwing out accusations. If I had a euro for every welsh whinge about fairness I be able to afford to take Ollie Le Roux out for dinner.

[The Doc]

I think for hard core supporters like many on this board it doesn't matter which players are on the park but let's be honest, people pick their games based upon the tournament, the opposition and maybe the players available. .

I don't know (or can't recall) anyone who has decided to go to a game based on who is playing for the other team. I do think there are factors that influence our numbers; (a) the importance of the game, (b) when it is on, (c) who we are playing and (d) our team selection. Of all those - (d) may possibly be a factor though I have never personally heard it mentioned.

I have a heard a number of times in the last week the statistic that Sexton has only played x number of Pro14 games and zero away games. If Cardiff (or any of the other teams) are saying they would significantly increase their attendance if Sexton was playing for Leinster, maybe we should start selling our merchandise over in Wales

[Theleinsterlad]

I think for hard core supporters like many on this board it doesn't matter which players are on the park but let's be honest, people pick their games based upon the tournament, the opposition and maybe the players available. .

I don't know (or can't recall) anyone who has decided to go to a game based on who is playing for the other team. I do think there are factors that influence our numbers; (a) the importance of the game, (b) when it is on, (c) who we are playing and (d) our team selection. Of all those - (d) may possibly be a factor though I have never personally heard it mentioned.

I have a heard a number of times in the last week the statistic that Sexton has only played x number of Pro14 games and zero away games. If Cardiff (or any of the other teams) are saying they would significantly increase their attendance if Sexton was playing for Leinster, maybe we should start selling our merchandise over in Wales

in some darkened room in Leinster HQ a marketer has just rubbed his/her hands at a new market for them to plug......

[roarlad]

I think for hard core supporters like many on this board it doesn't matter which players are on the park but let's be honest, people pick their games based upon the tournament, the opposition and maybe the players available. .

I don't know (or can't recall) anyone who has decided to go to a game based on who is playing for the other team. I do think there are factors that influence our numbers; (a) the importance of the game, (b) when it is on, (c) who we are playing and (d) our team selection. Of all those - (d) may possibly be a factor though I have never personally heard it mentioned.

I have a heard a number of times in the last week the statistic that Sexton has only played x number of Pro14 games and zero away games. If Cardiff (or any of the other teams) are saying they would significantly increase their attendance if Sexton was playing for Leinster, maybe we should start selling our merchandise over in Wales

Isn't that the whole point.
Leinster/IRFU devalue the (a) the importance of the game, in determining the (d) the team selection.

We would all agree that the quality of the Interpro games has gone off a cliff in recent years as the home team fields a mix of first teamers and the away team fields a mix of second teamers in a constant merry-go-round.

Factor into all of this the price of season tickets for Leinster, and the previous (though less more recently) idea of using imagery of the star players to sell the tickets when they themselves never get a game, and you can understand why there is some apathy to the Pro14.

They need to find a middle ground, whereby the quality of the product isn't completely diluted. At the moment, it seems at times to be a small step up from the Celtic Cup, providing slightly more senior academy graduates with game time vs. washed up mercenaries while some schoolboy ref butchers the scrum laws.

All this being said, I've been a season ticket holder for the past 12+ years, and will no doubt keep forking it out to support the lads...

[Oldschoolsocks]

I think for hard core supporters like many on this board it doesn't matter which players are on the park but let's be honest, people pick their games based upon the tournament, the opposition and maybe the players available. .

I don't know (or can't recall) anyone who has decided to go to a game based on who is playing for the other team. I do think there are factors that influence our numbers; (a) the importance of the game, (b) when it is on, (c) who we are playing and (d) our team selection. Of all those - (d) may possibly be a factor though I have never personally heard it mentioned.

I have a heard a number of times in the last week the statistic that Sexton has only played x number of Pro14 games and zero away games. If Cardiff (or any of the other teams) are saying they would significantly increase their attendance if Sexton was playing for Leinster, maybe we should start selling our merchandise over in Wales

Isn't that the whole point.
Leinster/IRFU devalue the (a) the importance of the game, in determining the (d) the team selection.

We would all agree that the quality of the Interpro games has gone off a cliff in recent years as the home team fields a mix of first teamers and the away team fields a mix of second teamers in a constant merry-go-round.

Factor into all of this the price of season tickets for Leinster, and the previous (though less more recently) idea of using imagery of the star players to sell the tickets when they themselves never get a game, and you can understand why there is some apathy to the Pro14.

They need to find a middle ground, whereby the quality of the product isn't completely diluted. At the moment, it seems at times to be a small step up from the Celtic Cup, providing slightly more senior academy graduates with game time vs. washed up mercenaries while some schoolboy ref butchers the scrum laws.

All this being said, I've been a season ticket holder for the past 12+ years, and will no doubt keep forking it out to support the lads...

Dunno about the interpros in general but i for one have thoroughly enjoyed are last couple of festive items to Turnip Park

[The Doc]

I think for hard core supporters like many on this board it doesn't matter which players are on the park but let's be honest, people pick their games based upon the tournament, the opposition and maybe the players available. .

I don't know (or can't recall) anyone who has decided to go to a game based on who is playing for the other team. I do think there are factors that influence our numbers; (a) the importance of the game, (b) when it is on, (c) who we are playing and (d) our team selection. Of all those - (d) may possibly be a factor though I have never personally heard it mentioned.

I have a heard a number of times in the last week the statistic that Sexton has only played x number of Pro14 games and zero away games. If Cardiff (or any of the other teams) are saying they would significantly increase their attendance if Sexton was playing for Leinster, maybe we should start selling our merchandise over in Wales

Isn't that the whole point.
Leinster/IRFU devalue the (a) the importance of the game, in determining the (d) the team selection.

We would all agree that the quality of the Interpro games has gone off a cliff in recent years as the home team fields a mix of first teamers and the away team fields a mix of second teamers in a constant merry-go-round.

Factor into all of this the price of season tickets for Leinster, and the previous (though less more recently) idea of using imagery of the star players to sell the tickets when they themselves never get a game, and you can understand why there is some apathy to the Pro14.

They need to find a middle ground, whereby the quality of the product isn't completely diluted. At the moment, it seems at times to be a small step up from the Celtic Cup, providing slightly more senior academy graduates with game time vs. washed up mercenaries while some schoolboy ref butchers the scrum laws.

All this being said, I've been a season ticket holder for the past 12+ years, and will no doubt keep forking it out to support the lads...

I think you may be misinterpreting what I mean by the importance of the game - I mean whether it is a knock out game, or a critical game to get 5 points in the run in, or a HEC group game where the bonus points will be needed in the mechanics of the group. I don't think selection has any bearing on the importance of a game.

I don't think everyone would agree that the quality of the interpros has gone off a cliff. The Leinster Minster games recently have actually improved in recent years in my opinion - from being a slugfest. I do think some of the raw emotion has gone from them but I suspect that has been the case since the Croke Park semi.

In my view (and this is a topic Dave Cahill may disagree with me on), it was apparent that Leinster lost many "casual" match goers under MOC. The brand of rugby became more dour - I think it showed that larger attendances (at least in Leinster) happen when the team is playing with a certain style or attitude - not who is specifically on the pitch or the advertising posters. Likewise a Friday or Saturday game will have a bigger crowd than a Sunday afternoon with the same selection and opposition. A knock out or pool game will have a larger attendance than a mid season league game - there are a series of factors but I don't think the Leinster selection is a significant factor and the opposition selection has zero influence

[wixfjord]

In my view (and this is a topic Dave Cahill may disagree with me on), it was apparent that Leinster lost many "casual" match goers under MOC. The brand of rugby became more dour - I think it showed that larger attendances (at least in Leinster) happen when the team is playing with a certain style or attitude - not who is specifically on the pitch or the advertising posters.

I don't think the data shows that Doc.

[Dave Cahill]

I'm a member of the Sid Vicious school of thought. The man in the street doesn't care what the rugby is like - they aren't engaged enough to do so. The casual fan wants a sports entertainment experience that ends with the faces winning - a couple of pints, having 'the bantz' and a Leinster win. They don't really care about the rugby being played. There'll be 9.5k there no matter what is happening on the pitch against whoever and whenever (the Treviso on a thursday crowd), another 1k or so who'll be there when they can, no matter what is happening on the pitch and then the rest. Some of those may be swayed by the rugby, but not very many of them. For the casual fan, they are there (at least in part) because they want to be associated with a winning team.

[ribs]

Judging from my own group who used to go to lots of games, you are both equally right: MOCball broke the habit, and matchday experiences (away games in England too) fell short.

[blockhead]

I'm a member of the Sid Vicious school of thought. The man in the street doesn't care what the rugby is like - they aren't engaged enough to do so. The casual fan wants a sports entertainment experience that ends with the faces winning - a couple of pints, having 'the bantz' and a Leinster win. They don't really care about the rugby being played. There'll be 9.5k there no matter what is happening on the pitch against whoever and whenever (the Treviso on a thursday crowd), another 1k or so who'll be there when they can, no matter what is happening on the pitch and then the rest. Some of those may be swayed by the rugby, but not very many of them. For the casual fan, they are there (at least in part) because they want to be associated with a winning team.

It's a no brainer really, and its the same for all the Pro12 teams with a few notable exceptions. The crowds rise and fall with the success and failure on the field. Each team has its ultras and each team has its good time charlies.
Here we are now, entertain us.

[Oldschool]

In order of importance what is important is the following.
BP win
Win
BP draw
Draw
Losing BP and Try BP
Watching favourite player's
Young players getting game time
Good weather
Losing Try BP
Losing NP
Losing
Entertainment.

[tomthefan]

The fact that Ulster have the highest attendences in that chart after so many barren years is a great testimony to their supporters.

[blockhead]

In order of importance what is important is the following.
BP win
Win
BP draw
Draw
Losing BP and Try BP
Watching favourite player's
Young players getting game time
Good weather
Losing Try BP
Losing NP
Losing
Entertainment.

This might explain the big issue down in TP. Limerick people might like to support the local lads but there are very few of those left sadly.
However, if they stop losing and start winning trophies (for the first time in a generation), then Franchise rugby may have a future in this country, and Nucifora's job will be complete.

[The Doc]

In my view (and this is a topic Dave Cahill may disagree with me on), it was apparent that Leinster lost many "casual" match goers under MOC. The brand of rugby became more dour - I think it showed that larger attendances (at least in Leinster) happen when the team is playing with a certain style or attitude - not who is specifically on the pitch or the advertising posters.

I don't think the data shows that Doc.

Emmm - that shows attendances dumped after MOC started and started to pick up in the last 12/18 months. Which is pretty much what I said - unless I'm missing something

[wixfjord]

In my view (and this is a topic Dave Cahill may disagree with me on), it was apparent that Leinster lost many "casual" match goers under MOC. The brand of rugby became more dour - I think it showed that larger attendances (at least in Leinster) happen when the team is playing with a certain style or attitude - not who is specifically on the pitch or the advertising posters.

I don't think the data shows that Doc.

Emmm - that shows attendances dumped after MOC started and started to pick up in the last 12/18 months. Which is pretty much what I said - unless I'm missing something

Haha sorry I meant to say I think data does say that!
Attendances dipped during MOC's tenure according to that graph alright.

[The Doc]

Haha sorry I meant to say I think data does say that!
Attendances dipped during MOC's tenure according to that graph alright.

I was looking at the graph for about 10 mins wondering what I was missing !!!

[Grumpy Old Man]

I'd say last season saw further decline in Ulster and improvement in Leinster.