Nick McCarthy

[joooooe]

I hope this doesn't mean he loses out on game time for this season, could easily see the coaches giving HOS more minutes because of the move.

The move makes total sense for him really. He won't be first choice while Murray is there but he's pretty much guaranteed to be second choice and obviously Murray will be away with Ireland or rested a lot so he'll get loads of game time. Even if he became second choice here he'd still have Luke and/or JGP around all the time and would be off early even when he started games.

Gutted to lose him though, enjoyed seeing him develop and hoped he'd become an important player for us, plus he's a really nice guy.

I do not understand this logic. We need to have whoever will be our back-up 9 ready to start next season. We will be down at least one of JGP and McGrath due to the world cup.
McCarthy is the IRFU's problem now.
I was very optimistic about him but I now couldn't care less. If he can be of use to us, then fine; but we need to give whoever the IRFU leaves us with game time, so they are ready for the challenge next season.

When Felix Jones' move was confirmed in the Spring of 2009 Michael Cheika wouldn't let him train with the first team squad. Cheika was apparently disgusted.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't disagree that we should squeeze out of him what we need.
I disagree that we should care about his gametime or development. That is totally irrelevant to Leinster.
If we need him, use him. But the other priority we now have is to get the other players exposure and gametime.

How are they mutually exclusive? We need to play Nick so that he's ready for when we do NEED him, such as picking him over the next couple of months so that he's ready to sit on the bench away to Bath if that's the selection we go with.

Nice run of fixtures coming up to give JGP, Nick, and HOS game time actually. We already struggle to give three 9s time but I'd certainly say there's room for HOS to make at least one sub appearance before that first Bath game whilst still ticking over and keeping the other guys sharp.

We didn't NEED Joey or Jordi (or Isa) for the two finals last season, are you worried that we won't be prepared for the finals this season if we make it?

[curates_egg]

I don't disagree that we should squeeze out of him what we need.
I disagree that we should care about his gametime or development. That is totally irrelevant to Leinster.
If we need him, use him. But the other priority we now have is to get the other players exposure and gametime.

How are they mutually exclusive? We need to play Nick so that he's ready for when we do NEED him, such as picking him over the next couple of months so that he's ready to sit on the bench away to Bath if that's the selection we go with.

Nice run of fixtures coming up to give JGP, Nick, and HOS game time actually. We already struggle to give three 9s time but I'd certainly say there's room for HOS to make at least one sub appearance before that first Bath game whilst still ticking over and keeping the other guys sharp.

We didn't NEED Joey or Jordi (or Isa) for the two finals last season, are you worried that we won't be prepared for the finals this season if we make it?

McCarthy's enforced move totally changes how we have to manage our players this season.
My only point is that we shouldn't care how we manage McCarthy, whilst still using him as suits our needs.
Assuming he had a contract for next season, he would have been a central part of our planning for managing the disruption of next season. Now this move has disrupted our planning and we need to get O'Sullivan up to speed much quicker than would be ideal or than we likely planned.
The IRFU is screwing us because of our success in developing players again.

[fourthirtythree]

Wasn't Joey only leaving after the finals? I mean the whispering campaign, the media narrative, the lie back and think of Ireland were earlier but he hadn't actually been forced out yet.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Wasn't Joey only leaving after the finals? I mean the whispering campaign, the media narrative, the lie back and think of Ireland were earlier but he hadn't actually been forced out yet.

Officially yes but I knew for sure on the night of the Pro14 final that it was done.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

McCarthy's enforced move totally changes how we have to manage our players this season.
My only point is that we shouldn't care how we manage McCarthy, whilst still using him as suits our needs.
Assuming he had a contract for next season, he would have been a central part of our planning for managing the disruption of next season. Now this move has disrupted our planning and we need to get O'Sullivan up to speed much quicker than would be ideal or than we likely planned.
The IRFU is screwing us because of our success in developing players again.

It barely makes any difference in how we manage our players, it just means that HOS might get a couple of more cameos than he would have otherwise.

When did I say we should care how we manage him? I'm not looking to develop him for Ireland or Munster, I'm saying we need to keep him sharp for our own important games.

Honestly don't know how you think we're in such dire straits when JGP becomes IQ next season, and don't forget that Luke didn't even go on the Australian tour. Some people thought it was because of his injury but my info is that it took everyone in Leinster by surprise. Nick is probably leaving to get more game time, which sort of sums up the fact that we don't use/need our third choice all that much. HOS and Frawley are in fairly similar situations, and nobody is panicking about Frawley.

Also wouldn't blame the IRFU for this one, other than the fact that Munster should have had a project player years ago. I remember there were rumours a year or two ago that Nick stalled on his contract because he wanted more game time.

[fourthirtythree]

Wasn't Joey only leaving after the finals? I mean the whispering campaign, the media narrative, the lie back and think of Ireland were earlier but he hadn't actually been forced out yet.

Officially yes but I knew for sure on the night of the Pro14 final that it was done.

The heavy lifting had happened publicly, suppose they couldn't announce the contract at that sensitive a time.

[blockhead]

There now follows a Party Political Broadcast by the IRFU..........via The42.
http://www.the42.ie/nick-mccarthy-leins ... 5-Oct2018/

Here's my favourite bit.

There will be concerns around diluting the identity of each province by bringing in players from outside, but if a province’s identity and culture is weak enough to be threatened by one or two non-native players joining, then it needs to be worked on.

Yeah Murray, but how about when nearly half of your players are from outside your fuppin Province?

Another one.

The fact is that homegrown talent will remain the cornerstone of each provincial team and supporters will, for the foreseeable future anyway, have plenty of native players to get behind.

That ship has sailed for Munster, will be soon for Ulster too if they don't get their act together and was never the case for Connacht.

[ronk]

Shame to lose him. Career wise he’s entering a risky phase for us and at a temporary natural position of strong leverage.

Moving up our depth chart is hard but he has a solid position. Munster have more opportunities but also more risk. He’s boosting his chances both of being capped and of being out of tier 1 pro rugby in a few years. He made his decision.

He will have looked to move given his position. (Fighting to) Being Murray’s understudy is preferable to taking on Marmion or Cooney. There’s more competition in Munster across older and younger players but at least the situation is open.

Munster aren’t shy about overstocking an area of the squad if they get an easy chance then having a cull. That makes moving to them a huge risk for non-elite players.

I’d say McCarthy understands that, hit was just that it was the highest potential offer he got.

[riocard911]

He's made his decision - not an easy one - and good luck to him. Hope it all works out - except of course when he's playing against his former club. Problem with Munster, it seems to me, is that they've no patience. Look at JJ - the rugby wunderkind formerly known as Double Jesus - now a mere shadow of his U20 self. After moving to Connacht Robin Copeland alluded to the pressure to perform in Munster - which apparently is hellish, but with very little in recent years to show for it.....

[Blue not red blood]

Jesus at this rate they will be looking to play their home games in Donnybrook

[COYBIB]

I mean I chuckle when it's someone like McCarthy as it has minimal impact really, I don't think he would ever become a big player here and if that's the case then the game time is better used on developing a 9 with a higher ceiling from the academy. But at the same time, the point at which this whole situation became pathetic is long, long back in the distance.

The term "Lunster" has taken on a whole new meaning.

[suisse]

Murray Kinsella's article was pretty ridiculous and he should be better than that. Tiptoeing around that issue (as Blockhead brought up) to not offend anyone. Either write about it accurately or just don't bother. I also saw just 2 paragraphs where he mentions the other provinces "leaning on Leinster." Like on OTB, the issue of player development in Munster is always just brushed over nonchalantly. They never discuss this.

Munster are still producing nothing for Ireland and POM is the last 23 man regular actually developed in Munster. He made his debut in 2012.

[TrapperChamonix]

I mean I chuckle when it's someone like McCarthy as it has minimal impact really, I don't think he would ever become a big player here and if that's the case then the game time is better used on developing a 9 with a higher ceiling from the academy. But at the same time, the point at which this whole situation became pathetic is long, long back in the distance.

The term "Lunster" has taken on a whole new meaning.

Lets not forget that McCarthy has 18 appearances for the U20's over 2 years captaining them for his 2nd year. An option not discussed is keeping McCarthy and not renewing Gibson Park contract. Personally, I'm not a fan of the project player and specifically in an area where we have similar depth in the country (ie JGP is no better than McGrath, Cooney & Marmion).

[mildlyinterested]

I mean I chuckle when it's someone like McCarthy as it has minimal impact really, I don't think he would ever become a big player here and if that's the case then the game time is better used on developing a 9 with a higher ceiling from the academy. But at the same time, the point at which this whole situation became pathetic is long, long back in the distance.

The term "Lunster" has taken on a whole new meaning.

Lets not forget that McCarthy has 18 appearances for the U20's over 2 years captaining them for his 2nd year. An option not discussed is keeping McCarthy and not renewing Gibson Park contract. Personally, I'm not a fan of the project player and specifically in an area where we have similar depth in the country (ie JGP is no better than McGrath, Cooney & Marmion).

He had 18 caps at u20 level but he has never been considered an elite prospect at 9, hence why they signed JGP when they did.

I'm sure the coaches discussed retaining McCarthy and releasing JGP and decided against it, for obvious reasons.

[blockhead]

According to Des Berry.

To set the record straight, the decision by the scrum-half has nothing at all to do with where the IRFU wants McCarthy to play from next season.
If that was the case, the former Ireland U20 scrum-half would be on his way to Ulster where John Cooney would stand between him and first choice.
There are two main reasons behind the move.
First, Jamison Gibson-Park will be Ireland qualified next season and not prone to the overseas rule which has benefited McCarthy more than anyone else at Leinster.
Second, Leinster wanted McCarthy to stay on and had tabled an offer of a contract extension to the 23-year-old.
It was Munster who approached McCarthy in the first place in a move that may not reflect well on James Hart or even the ageing 32-year-old Duncan Williams

Parasites.

[mildlyinterested]

According to Des Berry.

To set the record straight, the decision by the scrum-half has nothing at all to do with where the IRFU wants McCarthy to play from next season.
If that was the case, the former Ireland U20 scrum-half would be on his way to Ulster where John Cooney would stand between him and first choice.
There are two main reasons behind the move.
First, Jamison Gibson-Park will be Ireland qualified next season and not prone to the overseas rule which has benefited McCarthy more than anyone else at Leinster.
Second, Leinster wanted McCarthy to stay on and had tabled an offer of a contract extension to the 23-year-old.
It was Munster who approached McCarthy in the first place in a move that may not reflect well on James Hart or even the ageing 32-year-old Duncan Williams

Parasites.

not the first time they've approached McCarthy.

i'm sure they will approach other leinster players, like they continuously have in the past.

[ronk]

PJG has been an unqualified success for Leinster and has deepened the depth chart for Ireland at a time where there were succession concerns. At a time when we lost 2 very experienced 9s we gained a very solid player with an exciting game. The fact that the musical chairs hurt is testament to his usefulness.

No one worries if he starts a crucial game, he's earned our trust. Being a NZer may still help him with Schmidt when he gets into a squad.

No one thinks that scrumhalf is our strongest position but it's not a weakness that gets targetted. Relative to other positions we might see it as weakness but we have a super situation at the position. Leinster would need one of the top 9s in the world to be worth demoting him.

Ulster would have bitten our hand off if PGJ had been available ahead of Cooney.

[TrapperChamonix]

He had 18 caps at u20 level but he has never been considered an elite prospect at 9, hence why they signed JGP when they did.

I'm sure the coaches discussed retaining McCarthy and releasing JGP and decided against it, for obvious reasons.

Leinster signed JGP when Nich McCarthy had just turned 21 and Luke McGrath was only 23. You can't possibly link the signing of JGP to LR not viewing NMcC as an elite prospect. They obviously wanted back up with some experience at a time LMcG was establishing himself on the team.
Of course the coaches discussed who to retain.

[mildlyinterested]

He had 18 caps at u20 level but he has never been considered an elite prospect at 9, hence why they signed JGP when they did.

I'm sure the coaches discussed retaining McCarthy and releasing JGP and decided against it, for obvious reasons.

Leinster signed JGP when Nich McCarthy had just turned 21 and Luke McGrath was only 23. You can't possibly link the signing of JGP to LR not viewing NMcC as an elite prospect. They obviously wanted back up with some experience at a time LMcG was establishing himself on the team.
Of course the coaches discussed who to retain.

if Nick Mc was an elite prospect at the time they'd have backed him to be good enough to push McGrath, they didn't. McCarthy will be 24 at the end of the season and has never came close to pushing McGrath or JGP for their positions.

He was a good prospect at u20 level but not an elite one.