Nick McCarthy

[blockhead]

Odd that we're weakened by losing a player who we didn't rate and wasn't an elite prospect.

Very funny, but the point is that it's not just McCarthy is it? Joey and Jordi too, gone in the space of a few months with hints that it's only the start. We lost Jamie last season and still had a backrower pushed out the door, we also lost Isa and and Strauss.
From Munster's perspective, why pour time and money into an academy when you can pick and chose form Leinster's? Much cheaper.

[mildlyinterested]

Odd that we're weakened by losing a player who we didn't rate and wasn't an elite prospect.

losing squad depth still weakens leinster even if the player leaving wasn't an elite prospect ala McCarthy.

[TrapperChamonix]

Odd that we're weakened by losing a player who we didn't rate and wasn't an elite prospect.

Very funny, but the point is that it's not just McCarthy is it? Joey and Jordi too, gone in the space of a few months with hints that it's only the start. We lost Jamie last season and still had a backrower pushed out the door, we also lost Isa and and Strauss.
From Munster's perspective, why pour time and money into an academy when you can pick and chose form Leinster's? Much cheaper.

I buy the Joey bit of being forced out, but Jordi and Nick moved out of self interest to get more game time and they were right. I get that in the case of McCarthy it was in the middle of his contract.
We need some perspective here. McCarthy is 3rd choice SH, Jordi 3rd choice no 8 or 4th choice no 7 and Joey was 3rd choice no 10 (I think he should have been 2nd choice but Leo and Stuart thought otherwise).

[riocard911]

Personally, I don't think the IRFU are deliberately trying to weaken Leinster. IMO, what they're trying to do is keep Munster competitive in Europe - an endeavour, which is good for Irish rugby and for the other provinces, ourselves included. Munster are already leaking players in not inconsiderable numbers to France e.g. Pau. Donncha and Zebo going to Racing were big losses. For the faithful down there, those were guys who you go to see and support in sunshine or rain. Imagine if Murray and PO'M were to up their sticks. You could close down Munster down on the spot. My dream scenario? The IRFU succeed in saving Munster - essentially from themselves - they make it to the Heino final this spring - only to be obliterated by the Blue machine. Schadenfreude wouldn't be in it, I tell ye!!!!!

[Dexter]

Personally, I don't think the IRFU are deliberately trying to weaken Leinster. IMO, what they're trying to do is keep Munster competitive in Europe - an endeavour, which is good for Irish rugby and for the other provinces, ourselves included. Munster are already leaking players in not inconsiderable numbers to France e.g. Pau. Donncha and Zebo going to Racing were big losses. For the faithful down there, those were guys who you go to see and support in sunshine or rain. Imagine if Murray and PO'M were to up their sticks. You could close down Munster down on the spot. My dream scenario? The IRFU succeed in saving Munster - essentially from themselves - they make it to the Heino final this spring - only to be obliterated by the Blue machine. Schadenfreude wouldn't be in it, I tell ye!!!!!

There's probably truth in that. Personally I would hate a Leinster Munster final...hate it!

[curates_egg]

Personally, I don't think the IRFU are deliberately trying to weaken Leinster. IMO, what they're trying to do is keep Munster competitive in Europe - an endeavour, which is good for Irish rugby and for the other provinces, ourselves included. Munster are already leaking players in not inconsiderable numbers to France e.g. Pau. Donncha and Zebo going to Racing were big losses. For the faithful down there, those were guys who you go to see and support in sunshine or rain. Imagine if Murray and PO'M were to up their sticks. You could close down Munster down on the spot. My dream scenario? The IRFU succeed in saving Munster - essentially from themselves - they make it to the Heino final this spring - only to be obliterated by the Blue machine. Schadenfreude wouldn't be in it, I tell ye!!!!!

There's probably truth in that. Personally I would hate a Leinster Munster final...hate it!

I could not imagine anything worse.

I also don't like the IRFU throwing everything possible into Munster, so as to save Munster, whilst letting Ulster go to chyte.
Ulster actually needs a scrum half and outhalf, unlike Munster. Ulster actually sells-out its games, unlike Munster, which racked up loads of debt to build a stadium that sits empty week-in, week-out.
Cut them loose and stop letting them leech off the rest of the system.

[Peg Leg]

According to Des Berry.

To set the record straight, the decision by the scrum-half has nothing at all to do with where the IRFU wants McCarthy to play from next season.
If that was the case, the former Ireland U20 scrum-half would be on his way to Ulster where John Cooney would stand between him and first choice.
There are two main reasons behind the move.
First, Jamison Gibson-Park will be Ireland qualified next season and not prone to the overseas rule which has benefited McCarthy more than anyone else at Leinster.
Second, Leinster wanted McCarthy to stay on and had tabled an offer of a contract extension to the 23-year-old.
It was Munster who approached McCarthy in the first place in a move that may not reflect well on James Hart or even the ageing 32-year-old Duncan Williams

Parasites.

Fair play to McCarthy. He could chose to ride the pine with a trophy winning team, but he opted for the challenge of getting gametime amd doing so under the wing of the best in the world. Good luck Nick.

[mildlyinterested]

According to Des Berry.

To set the record straight, the decision by the scrum-half has nothing at all to do with where the IRFU wants McCarthy to play from next season.
If that was the case, the former Ireland U20 scrum-half would be on his way to Ulster where John Cooney would stand between him and first choice.
There are two main reasons behind the move.
First, Jamison Gibson-Park will be Ireland qualified next season and not prone to the overseas rule which has benefited McCarthy more than anyone else at Leinster.
Second, Leinster wanted McCarthy to stay on and had tabled an offer of a contract extension to the 23-year-old.
It was Munster who approached McCarthy in the first place in a move that may not reflect well on James Hart or even the ageing 32-year-old Duncan Williams

Parasites.

Fair play to McCarthy. He could chose to ride the pine with a trophy winning team, but he opted for the challenge of getting gametime amd doing so under the wing of the best in the world. Good luck Nick.

in fairness he has tried to get ahead of JGP and McGrath and has failed. Better off leaving now to a province where he will likely be primary backup.

[curates_egg]

Fair play to McCarthy. He could chose to ride the pine with a trophy winning team, but he opted for the challenge of getting gametime amd doing so under the wing of the best in the world. Good luck Nick.

in fairness he has tried to get ahead of JGP and McGrath and has failed. Better off leaving now to a province where he will likely be primary backup.

He played 20 times last season as a 22/3 year old in a double winning side (making the 23 for one final and the semi-final of the other). That's pretty good going for a guy in essentially his first senior season. If he wants to chuck that in and thinks he will do better at Munster, that's his decision...but I'm not sure it is 100% logical. Munster are totally dependent on Murray to reach the later stages of competitions. So he'll either be in exactly the same position at Munster ("riding pine" in semi-finals)...or Murray will be injured and they won't be making semi-finals and finals.

Given we wanted him to stay, it definitely causes disruption to our planning - particularly for the first half of next season. Instead, he is leaving to our annoying spoilt rivals (who have even more scrumhalves than us). While, I don't wish him good riddance, I also struggle to wish him and them luck.

[Peg Leg]

Better to be riding pine at semi finals than it is a p14 game in November

[LeinsterLeader]

Interesting words from Leo from todays presser . They sound.........measured?

Cullen admits there is a challenge to maintaining his squad, with so many highly-rated players having to compete for a finite number of matches, while rivals under the IRFU umbrella are eager to provide those extra opportunities to players.

Everyone here at the club is conscious of the fact that there is a lot of Leinster players being… ‘targeted’ maybe? I’m not sure what the best way to describe it is.

“We talked about it in the lead-up to the Munster game a few weeks ago: how Munster had changed quite significantly. There was a big South African influence there, even some young guys coming into the academy, and there are a good few Leinster guys down there.

“It is something the club are definitely very conscious of. In many ways it’s a compliment to a lot of the work that goes on behind the scenes here, whether that is at schools and club level or at the academy and sub-academy. The work that goes on is still very important.

[blockhead]

Interesting words from Leo from todays presser . They sound.........measured?

Cullen admits there is a challenge to maintaining his squad, with so many highly-rated players having to compete for a finite number of matches, while rivals under the IRFU umbrella are eager to provide those extra opportunities to players.

Everyone here at the club is conscious of the fact that there is a lot of Leinster players being… ‘targeted’ maybe? I’m not sure what the best way to describe it is.

“We talked about it in the lead-up to the Munster game a few weeks ago: how Munster had changed quite significantly. There was a big South African influence there, even some young guys coming into the academy, and there are a good few Leinster guys down there.

“It is something the club are definitely very conscious of. In many ways it’s a compliment to a lot of the work that goes on behind the scenes here, whether that is at schools and club level or at the academy and sub-academy. The work that goes on is still very important.

That's code for-joke of a club

[Oldschool]

Odd that we're weakened by losing a player who we didn't rate and wasn't an elite prospect.

Very funny, but the point is that it's not just McCarthy is it? Joey and Jordi too, gone in the space of a few months with hints that it's only the start. We lost Jamie last season and still had a backrower pushed out the door, we also lost Isa and and Strauss.
From Munster's perspective, why pour time and money into an academy when you can pick and chose form Leinster's? Much cheaper.

I buy the Joey bit of being forced out, but Jordi and Nick moved out of self interest to get more game time and they were right. I get that in the case of McCarthy it was in the middle of his contract.
We need some perspective here. McCarthy is 3rd choice SH, Jordi 3rd choice no 8 or 4th choice no 7 and Joey was 3rd choice no 10 (I think he should have been 2nd choice but Leo and Stuart thought otherwise).

Jordi is/was Ireland's and Leinster's first choice 20 tho'.

[ronk]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 36896.html

Another bizarre media article..... A very short article has 2/3rds of it devoted to justifying the McCarthy move. Initiated by the line:

“Just to set the record straight”

It isn’t even an opinion piece and they are using phrases like that.

Of course if you bring it up on Twitter or in general conversation you’re called a conspiracy theorist etc.

There are two main reasons behind the move.

...

Second, Leinster wanted McCarthy to stay on and had tabled an offer of a contract extension to the 23-year-old.

Above quote is the Indo at its finest.

The implication (which has been fed to it) of the article is that the IRFU wanted to move McCarthy to Ulster but Munster turned his head. Seems like only 6 months since that happened last.

There's probably a lot more going on behind the scenes.

[Oldschool]

Personally, I don't think the IRFU are deliberately trying to weaken Leinster. IMO, what they're trying to do is keep Munster competitive in Europe - an endeavour, which is good for Irish rugby and for the other provinces, ourselves included. Munster are already leaking players in not inconsiderable numbers to France e.g. Pau. Donncha and Zebo going to Racing were big losses. For the faithful down there, those were guys who you go to see and support in sunshine or rain. Imagine if Murray and PO'M were to up their sticks. You could close down Munster down on the spot. My dream scenario? The IRFU succeed in saving Munster - essentially from themselves - they make it to the Heino final this spring - only to be obliterated by the Blue machine. Schadenfreude wouldn't be in it, I tell ye!!!!!

There's a lot of sense in what you say.
The IRFU want all the provinces playing in the HEC because playing at a higher level (HEC rather than Challenge)improves player quality.

[ronk]

The IRFU is a heterogenous organisation. Some components are provincial or even club partisans to differeng extents.

I don't there is an element trying to weaken Leinster, but there are provincial frictions that are damaging us and the game.

If Nucifora/Schmidt were fully in control and have been telling the truth they'd have been able to steer Carbery and McCarthy to Ulster and been able to do enough to hold Munster off.

Given the recent Carbery controversy this is a risky move for them to tolerate/perpetrate.

Letting Munster continue to undermine their public strategy for player development is a bigger problem than just amunster and Leinster.

Losing players like this is going to make it hard for Leo to even attempt to develop a really strong squad. Guys are the fringe are being recruited too easily to allow patient squad development.

[Dave Cahill]

Apparently, according to Ruaidhri O'Connor, we don't mind.

So thats nice.

[neiliog93]

The PR campaign began last week even before the move was announced with Cummiskey's jarringly bizarre (and untrue) article about Leinster's 'conveyor belt of 9s'. It set the scene perfectly for arguing that one of ours 9s should go to another province. Then there's this rubbish from Murray Kinsella, an excellent analyst but obviously due to his Munster bias and for the sake of his own future links to the IRFU (and therefore his future journalistic career) he has decided to both drink and spread the Kool Aid on this one. Gerry is in the pocket of the IRFU too. This is why we need a Franno to ruffle a few feathers, his dickheadness aside.

[Experimental]

Lets not forget McCarthy has the opportunity to work under the best 9 in the world, that's not to be sniffed at. I think if any of us got the chance to work under the person whos the best in the world at our chosen profession, we would take it with both hands. Decent move for him, and good luck to him. Will benefit Irish rugby

[Dave Cahill]

Lets not forget McCarthy has the opportunity to work under the best 9 in the world, that's not to be sniffed at. I think if any of us got the chance to work under the person whos the best in the world at our chosen profession, we would take it with both hands. Decent move for him, and good luck to him. Will benefit Irish rugby

Thats not the culture at Munster though, or at least it wasn't anyways according to a variety of autobiogs written by former Munster players. They have a more, shall we say, darwinian, culture there.