Leinster Squad 19-20

[PotHale]

Given their experience it would be a shame to lose either of them, but would be costly to hold on to both.
Probably looking at €750k a year for both, which is a big impact.

@Munster #1 ... this is Leinster NOT Munster ...whereas Munster will of course be sanctioned to pay that kind of wad to some Saffers ... our guys won’t cost anywhere that much

I hadn’t realised that Kearney had decided to hang up his boots, so I was just thinking of his market value as a highly experienced international. You would imagine that he would still be able to command a fairly good salary in England or France.

Also, I hadn’t realised that Toner had shown his cards and said that he did not want to move. So all bargaining power is gone.

Like Munster of old, Leinster are very fortunate in that a massive percentage of their wage bill is covered by the IRFU through central contracts.
I wonder if this will be a trend as players come to the end of their central contracts.

As I understand it, the current central contract players for next season so far are:

Healy - Leinster
TBA
Furlong - Leinster
Henderson - Ulster
Ryan - Leinster -
O'Mahony - Munster
TBA
Stander - Munster
Murray - Munster
Sexton - Leinster
Henshaw - Leinster
Aki - Connacht
Ringrose - Leinster
Earls - Munster
Stockdale - Ulster -
TBA

That leaves Hooker, Openside and Fullback unfilled.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Like Toner, Kearney has stated he wants to play for at least another year. He has always been a one club man turning down lucrative offers from elsewhere all along. Leinster haven't repaid him for all his loyalty and let him down badly in last few years by not giving him gametime prior to 6N. But Kearney is the kind of player who should always be around the squad. He is vital in tough matches, is still the best in the world under the high ball and has so much to pass on to others - in terms of true FB play, positioning and leadership.
Not to mention that he deserves far better as our most successful ever player than a farewell behind closed doors..

Positionally excellent, is that coachable? If it is I’d like to see him kept on in a coaching role

[ronk]

Like Toner, Kearney has stated he wants to play for at least another year. He has always been a one club man turning down lucrative offers from elsewhere all along. Leinster haven't repaid him for all his loyalty and let him down badly in last few years by not giving him gametime prior to 6N. But Kearney is the kind of player who should always be around the squad. He is vital in tough matches, is still the best in the world under the high ball and has so much to pass on to others - in terms of true FB play, positioning and leadership.
Not to mention that he deserves far better as our most successful ever player than a farewell behind closed doors..

Positionally excellent, is that coachable? If it is I’d like to see him kept on in a coaching role

It usually is.

Dempsey, Jones and Nacewa all had successful coaching roles.

[Serb]

As I understand it, the current central contract players for next season so far are:

Healy - Leinster
TBA
Furlong - Leinster
Henderson - Ulster
Ryan - Leinster -
O'Mahony - Munster
TBA
Stander - Munster
Murray - Munster
Sexton - Leinster
Henshaw - Leinster
Aki - Connacht
Ringrose - Leinster
Earls - Munster
Stockdale - Ulster -
TBA

That leaves Hooker, Openside and Fullback unfilled.

Do we generally maintain a 15 player central contract roster? Seems exceptionally unlikely any of our current options for those open positions would land a central contract.

[Workhorse]

As I understand it, the current central contract players for next season so far are:

Healy - Leinster
TBA
Furlong - Leinster
Henderson - Ulster
Ryan - Leinster -
O'Mahony - Munster
TBA
Stander - Munster
Murray - Munster
Sexton - Leinster
Henshaw - Leinster
Aki - Connacht
Ringrose - Leinster
Earls - Munster
Stockdale - Ulster -
TBA

That leaves Hooker, Openside and Fullback unfilled.

Central contracts don't work on a one per position basis its more a who can we not afford to chase a pay day abroad basis. That could be one per position or it could be any other combination (you'll notice there's 3 centres there).
Currently we have no standout (ie head and shoulders above their competition when in form) hooker, 7, or fullback thus no contracts for those positions as if someone moved abroad their replacement wouldn't be a step down so its a hit the team can take

[ronk]

Leavy and Larmour should be strong candidates for central contracts.

[munster#1]

As I understand it, the current central contract players for next season so far are:

Healy - Leinster
TBA
Furlong - Leinster
Henderson - Ulster
Ryan - Leinster -
O'Mahony - Munster
TBA
Stander - Munster
Murray - Munster
Sexton - Leinster
Henshaw - Leinster
Aki - Connacht
Ringrose - Leinster
Earls - Munster
Stockdale - Ulster -
TBA

That leaves Hooker, Openside and Fullback unfilled.

Central contracts don't work on a one per position basis its more a who can we not afford to chase a pay day abroad basis. That could be one per position or it could be any other combination (you'll notice there's 3 centres there).
Currently we have no standout (ie head and shoulders above their competition when in form) hooker, 7, or fullback thus no contracts for those positions as if someone moved abroad their replacement wouldn't be a step down so its a hit the team can take

Heard an interview from Quinlan a couple of weeks ago, and he was saying that Salanoa was paid in full by the irfu and not Leinster.
I wonder if any of the IQ players that have been brought home/over are funded in full or partially by the IRFU?

[Ruckedtobits]

As I understand it, the current central contract players for next season so far are:

Healy - Leinster
TBA
Furlong - Leinster
Henderson - Ulster
Ryan - Leinster -
O'Mahony - Munster
TBA
Stander - Munster
Murray - Munster
Sexton - Leinster
Henshaw - Leinster
Aki - Connacht
Ringrose - Leinster
Earls - Munster
Stockdale - Ulster -
TBA

That leaves Hooker, Openside and Fullback unfilled.

Central contracts don't work on a one per position basis its more a who can we not afford to chase a pay day abroad basis. That could be one per position or it could be any other combination (you'll notice there's 3 centres there).
Currently we have no standout (ie head and shoulders above their competition when in form) hooker, 7, or fullback thus no contracts for those positions as if someone moved abroad their replacement wouldn't be a step down so its a hit the team can take

@Workhorse, correct re allocation of Central Contracts. Essentially it is the list of players the National Coach wants complete control over, occasionally with a financial sop to one or other of the Provinces for who the wages of a Central Contract would provide difficulties re relative pay scales to others in Provinces. IMO, Aki falls into this category at present.

However, it's worth noting that all Provincial contracts for Irish-qualified players are IRFU contracts. Only NIQ contracts are the total responsibility of the Province and the signing must still be approved by Nucifora. The Union provide the core funding for each Irish player and the Province 'top-up' that allocation based on a variety of factors including, game time, win bonuses, seniority, selection in EPRC games & knockout games etc.

It's not rocket science when the Province is going well. It's quantum mechanics when you're struggling for success.

[meathman3]

Leavy and Larmour should be strong candidates for central contracts.

Larmour is not good enough at FB to justify giving him a CC. Farrell may be hell bent on getting rid of Kearney but he hadn't got a good enough replacement . Larmour might even lose his place there going forward so they will wait to see. And Leavy hasn't a hope after that injury.
But as they are in the business of cutbacks - they will probably not hand out any more CCs.
Leinster should fund Toner and Kearney going forward.
We should not be keeping the likes of Fardy ( no matter how great he is) and letting Irish players go.

[ronk]

Central contracts are to fund strategically important players because they are needed for Ireland but their reduced provincial availability makes it hard for the provinces to afford.

[Workhorse]

@Workhorse, correct re allocation of Central Contracts. Essentially it is the list of players the National Coach wants complete control over, occasionally with a financial sop to one or other of the Provinces for who the wages of a Central Contract would provide difficulties re relative pay scales to others in Provinces. IMO, Aki falls into this category at present.

However, it's worth noting that all Provincial contracts for Irish-qualified players are IRFU contracts. Only NIQ contracts are the total responsibility of the Province and the signing must still be approved by Nucifora. The Union provide the core funding for each Irish player and the Province 'top-up' that allocation based on a variety of factors including, game time, win bonuses, seniority, selection in EPRC games & knockout games etc.

It's not rocket science when the Province is going well. It's quantum mechanics when you're struggling for success.

Sorry but that's not what they are at all. The national team coach has full control of every Irish qualified player playing in Ireland anyway, within reason, they don't have any extra control over centrally contracted players other than it being logistically easier to have them change province but that's really more a side affect.

Central contracts are there to keep marquee players in the country by giving the IRFU the ability to have them paid their market value in as cost effective a manner as possible and keeping the provinces as strong as possible.

You're going to have to trust me on this one.

[alanair]

keeping the provinces as strong as possible.

Quite clearly , this statement is wrong, as far as Leinster is concerned

[wixfjord]

keeping the provinces as strong as possible.

Quite clearly , this statement is wrong, as far as Leinster is concerned

'provinceS'

As in collectively.

It's clearly not in the IRFU's interest to have one province much stronger than the others.

It's much more in their interest to have four provinces playing at a high level and to spread the wealth. Even if that means one province is slightly inhibited and others are artificially propped up.

[wixfjord]

Larmour is not good enough at FB to justify giving him a CC. Farrell may be hell bent on getting rid of Kearney but he hadn't got a good enough replacement . Larmour might even lose his place there going forward so they will wait to see. And Leavy hasn't a hope after that injury.
But as they are in the business of cutbacks - they will probably not hand out any more CCs.
Leinster should fund Toner and Kearney going forward.
We should not be keeping the likes of Fardy ( no matter how great he is) and letting Irish players go.

Like Toner, Kearney has stated he wants to play for at least another year. He has always been a one club man turning down lucrative offers from elsewhere all along. Leinster haven't repaid him for all his loyalty and let him down badly in last few years by not giving him gametime prior to 6N. But Kearney is the kind of player who should always be around the squad. He is vital in tough matches, is still the best in the world under the high ball and has so much to pass on to others - in terms of true FB play, positioning and leadership.
Not to mention that he deserves far better as our most successful ever player than a farewell behind closed doors..

Once again, this is pro sport. Leinster have absolutely no onus to repay loyalty or give a guy game time if they're not forced to.

Kearney is 34, coming off a central contract and has contributed virtually nothing this year. He has clearly been on a downward path for a while.

If the coaches feel he can be useful as a senior safe pair of hands for a year, they should offer him a reduced contract. However, in light of the financial reality even this might not be realistic.

But the decision won't, and shouldn't be made on any sense of 'we owe this guy'. Players are owed nothing, they know this from the moment they pull on a jersey.

Leo, Mick et al are way too pragmatic to let that happen.

Toner on the other hand clearly has a lot more left to offer and should be prioritised.

Fardy is a critical player for us and should be prioritised too.

[ronk]

keeping the provinces as strong as possible.

Quite clearly , this statement is wrong, as far as Leinster is concerned

'provinceS'

As in collectively.

It's clearly not in the IRFU's interest to have one province much stronger than the others.

It's much more in their interest to have four provinces playing at a high level and to spread the wealth. Even if that means one province is slightly inhibited and others are artificially propped up.

It is absolutely not in the interest of the IRFU that Leinster be held back enough to not win the HC while other provinces dismantle their development pathways due to the ease of recruitment. It is not a good thing that Munster move further and further away from being able to sustain themselves and pay back their debts.

Their plan now is to double down on recruitment to win something and hopefully rebuild enough support to eventually pivot back to developing players. But that failed before and you need to build on discipline not become disciplined once you have built.

[Workhorse]

keeping the provinces as strong as possible.

Quite clearly , this statement is wrong, as far as Leinster is concerned

Yes because Leinster would be able to afford to keep Healy, Furlong, Ryan, Sexton, Henshaw, Ringrose without IRFU help financially

[wixfjord]

It is absolutely not in the interest of the IRFU that Leinster be held back enough to not win the HC while other provinces dismantle their development pathways due to the ease of recruitment. It is not a good thing that Munster move further and further away from being able to sustain themselves and pay back their debts.

Their plan now is to double down on recruitment to win something and hopefully rebuild enough support to eventually pivot back to developing players. But that failed before and you need to build on discipline not become disciplined once you have built.

No clearly not, and that's not what I said either.

There's a middle ground here that I think you're veering away from.

Leinster clearly has some major inbuilt natural advantages (size, schools etc).

We should expect that we share a larger burden of player development and national team quotas than the rest.

We also should be aware that the national side comes first, and if that means the IRFU need to slightly weaken us to keep the rest at a certain level then that's what will happen. It's the system we've signed up to and benefitted from too.

[ronk]

.

Toner on the other hand clearly has a lot more left to offer and should be prioritised.

Fardy is a critical player for us and should be prioritised too.

The Fardy deal was done early. It is locked in. Hence Munster are still making their biggest signings in years.

Guys like McFadden were just unlucky with timing. If Kearney doesn’t get extended it’s not personal, it’s an unfortunate circumstance forced on him and us. It doesn’t in any way diminish his incredible contributions to Irish rugby.

[ronk]

It is absolutely not in the interest of the IRFU that Leinster be held back enough to not win the HC while other provinces dismantle their development pathways due to the ease of recruitment. It is not a good thing that Munster move further and further away from being able to sustain themselves and pay back their debts.

Their plan now is to double down on recruitment to win something and hopefully rebuild enough support to eventually pivot back to developing players. But that failed before and you need to build on discipline not become disciplined once you have built.

No clearly not, and that's not what I said either.

There's a middle ground here that I think you're veering away from.

Leinster clearly has some major inbuilt natural advantages (size, schools etc).

We should expect that we share a larger burden of player development and national team quotas than the rest.

We also should be aware that the national side comes first, and if that means the IRFU need to slightly weaken us to keep the rest at a certain level then that's what will happen. It's the system we've signed up to and benefitted from too.

It is exactly what you said. Leinster won the HC Cup and immediately lost key players due to jealous other provinces. Then they lost their 1st HC final out of 5.

The decision to balance the provinces wasn’t free and the form of the Irish team dropped rapidly in 2019 too.

Munster bombed so badly they went out in the group stages and had to sign 2 RWC winning stars as they rebuild again again.

[Workhorse]

It is exactly what you said. Leinster won the HC Cup and immediately lost key players due to jealous other provinces. Then they lost their 1st HC final out of 5.

The decision to balance the provinces wasn’t free and the form of the Irish team dropped rapidly in 2019 too.

Munster bombed so badly they went out in the group stages and had to sign 2 RWC winning stars as they rebuild again again.

After winning the European Cup in 2018 Leinster lost 2 players to other provinces.

Jordi went to Ulster because he wanted more playing time and also wanted to play for Ireland so Ulster was a good fit.
That summer Leinster promoted in no particular order Doris, Murphy, and Connor. So I don't think him leaving was the reason we lost to Sarries.

Carbery went to Munster because Ireland didn't have a backup 10 playing regularly and either him or Byrne were the closest thing to a backup 10 for Ireland at the time so we needed at least one of them to be playing regularly in Ireland.
Leinster were using Carbery as a 15 so got Tomane as a replacement.

As much as it pains me to see part of our production line siphoned off every year at the end of the day we can't keep all the quality we're producing happy so it's not some anti leinster conspiracy.