NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

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riocard911
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by riocard911 »

curates_egg wrote:Of course it isn't going away. That's what makes the relative lack of a fuss about Carbery so annoying: most fans seem to be happy to accept it.

Who's the article by? Dexies, the Munster fan, or Cummiskey, the IRFU's new lackey? I don't want to waste my free article on something I know will annoy me.

Seo duit, Curate's:


Leinster retaining Doris at No 8 suggests new pecking order

Dragons coach Bernard Jackman will have identified real opportunity to catch the champions

Leinster’s Scott Penny: he made his debut against the Ospreys last week. Photograph: Tommy Dickson/Inpho

Gavin Cummiskey
about 17 hours ago

Pro14, Dragons v Leinster, Saturday December 1st, Rodney Parade (kick-off 5.15pm, eirSport 1)

Leinster being an extension of Ireland, Leo Cullen’s team selection constantly captivates the imagination.

Retaining Caelan Doris at number eight suggests a newly-formed pecking order as Jack Conan (currently injured) and Max Deegan (currently slumped to third choice) must witness the rise of another special talent. Deegan will get his chance here, but Doris has the jersey.

Scott Penny’s bicep-bulging debut against the Ospreys last week should cause anxiety for Seán O’Brien, Josh van der Flier and Dan Leavy. Of course it will have no such impact on these established Ireland opensides. David Nucifora, on the other hand, may need to intervene and spread Leinster’s backrow wealth to other provinces.

At scrumhalf such logic is already occurring as the Munster-bound Nick McCarthy does his career a favour by moving to Limerick before Paddy Patterson formally arrives. The 20-year-old Blackrock prodigy will relieve Jamison Gibson-Park on Saturday to earn cap number one.

Ross Byrne needs a convincing performance at outhalf – and not just the usual kick passing clinic – to keep Ciarán Frawley at bay.

Loosehead prop is another area where Leinster exude power, with Nucifora surely keen to unburden them of Ed Byrne. And his benched twin Bryan. The Carlow RFC brothers are already 25; both would be established starters in any other Pro 14 squad.

Ed Byrne, a player with enormous potential, only makes his 30th appearance in blue because of historically immovable objects called Jack McGrath and Cian Healy.

Ireland wingers

The same narrative extends to Ireland wingers Adam Byrne and Dave Kearney, whose careers have stalled due to form and fitness, but both seek to light up Rodney Parade.

“It’s an opportunity to show what you can do,” says Byrne. “Hopefully push a way into the match 23 against Bath.”

Among this Leinster offering we also find the next wave of Academy graduates. Jimmy O’Brien reappears from Sevens to perhaps transfer the footballing gifts that were so impressive at under age for Newbridge to the main stage.

The same goes for Hugo Keenan and less so Conor O’Brien, as the inside centre has already revealed serious physical prowess.

Scott Fardy leads the side. If the 39 times capped Wallaby builds upon his performance at the RDS last weekend, Michael Cheika, or whoever runs Australia next year, will have to recall the 34-year-old.

Despite so many ominous warnings, Dragons coach Bernard Jackman will have identified a real and rare opportunity to catch the champions. This moment only presents itself when Johnny Sexton and his lieutenants are being held for European battles.

“When we played them in Round Three we played 25 minutes with 14 men and it was difficult,” said Jackman of September’s sobering 52-10 defeat when Ross Moriarty walked for bumping Johnny Sexton off the ball. The Lions flanker is back in the fold, although Jackman keeps him on the bench.

“Our discipline has to be spot on, and the improvement with our defence needs to continue. It will be tested under the most extreme circumstances, and we have to be ready.”

Killer scores

Strong indications point towards a Leinster victory, with the killer scores accumulated either side of the interval, but all 80 minutes are worthwhile to track the development of Joey O’Brien, Penny and Doris.

And observe the Byrne twins before making Cullen’s case to keep them so far down the Leinster roster while other provinces could oil the Irish system by exposing them to Champions Cup action.

Like Jackman on Saturday night, next week pits a former Leinster man, Bath attack coach Girvan Dempsey, against his boyhood team. Another fascinating line-up, including Doris but surely not Penny, is promised.

DRAGONS: J Williams; J Rosser, T Morgan, J Sage, H Amos; J Tovey, R Williams; R Bevington, R Hibbard (c), L Fairbrother; R Landman, L Evans; H Keddie, A Wainwright, O Griffiths. Replacements: E Dee, A Jarvis, L Brown, C Hill, R Moriarty, T Knoyle, A Robson, A Warren.

LEINSTER: H Keenan; A Byrne, J O’Brien, C O’Brien, D Kearney; R Byrne, J Gibson-Park; E Byrne, J Tracy, M Bent; R Molony, S Fardy (capt); J Murphy, S Penny, C Doris. Replacements: B Byrne, P Dooley, A Porter, M Kearney, M Deegan, P Patterson, C Frawley, T Daly.

Referee: Lloyd Linton (SRU).

Verdict: Leinster win.
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curates_egg
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by curates_egg »

Grma

I didn't actually want to read it but very kind of you.
We have a subscription at work but don't really use it to read rugby anymore. I certainly keep my clicks outside work for other stuff.
He has a riotous writing style: it's like Chaucer meets Kerouac, drunk.

Interesting that he states Conan is injured. No public confirmation yet that he's out.

Will be interesting to see what kind of reaction Deegan delivers.
Another possible new cap today as well. The MOC era feels so long ago.
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by artaneboy »

curates_egg wrote:Of course it isn't going away. That's what makes the relative lack of a fuss about Carbery so annoying: most fans seem to be happy to accept it.

Who's the article by? Dexies, the Munster fan, or Cummiskey, the IRFU's new lackey? I don't want to waste my free article on something I know will annoy me.
Jeez Curate’s- what sort of a fuss do you want us to make?

None of us want to see talent leave here- but the reality (which we all know- but it bears repeating) is that we are currently producing more than we can use. Most players aren’t going to be happy to sit as third or fourth choice, if they can go elsewhere and play every week. For instance, I’m amazed that a player of the undoubted quality of Mike Bent remains with us.

And if the players are going to go, wearing my Ireland shirt I’m reluctantly forced to accept the logic that they should ideally go to play with another if our provinces- even if they will be playing against us In derbies.

Having said that, the player moves which most upset me were Conway and Kelleher. There there was a place open to them in their favoured/ best position- and all it took was a little but of patience.


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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by Peg Leg »

artaneboy wrote:
curates_egg wrote:Of course it isn't going away. That's what makes the relative lack of a fuss about Carbery so annoying: most fans seem to be happy to accept it.

Who's the article by? Dexies, the Munster fan, or Cummiskey, the IRFU's new lackey? I don't want to waste my free article on something I know will annoy me.
Jeez Curate’s- what sort of a fuss do you want us to make?

None of us want to see talent leave here- but the reality (which we all know- but it bears repeating) is that we are currently producing more than we can use. Most players aren’t going to be happy to sit as third or fourth choice, if they can go elsewhere and play every week. For instance, I’m amazed that a player of the undoubted quality of Mike Bent remains with us.

And if the players are going to go, wearing my Ireland shirt I’m reluctantly forced to accept the logic that they should ideally go to play with another if our provinces- even if they will be playing against us In derbies.

Having said that, the player moves which most upset me were Conway and Kelleher. There there was a place open to them in their favoured/ best position- and all it took was a little but of patience.


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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Just thinking, it's funny how I didn't think we were giving our 3rd choice scrumhalf enough game time and now our 5th choice might be required, never would have guessed that. I think Rock only had one appearance for us but apart from that I doubt we ever had to go down as far as 4th choice between the time Cooney left and HOS arrived, never mind 5th.
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Bent probably has it pretty good in fairness. Presume he's on a decent wage but wouldn't have the kind of time commitments that a first choice player would have. It's not like he needs to go somewhere to progress his international career, that ship has sailed.
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by artaneboy »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Bent probably has it pretty good in fairness. Presume he's on a decent wage but wouldn't have the kind of time commitments that a first choice player would have. It's not like he needs to go somewhere to progress his international career, that ship has sailed.
Nothing about Michael Bent would indicate he’s happy in a “comfort zone”. He always does it for us and I believe he’s still personally ambitious beyond the pay cheque or lifestyle. As a prop his career down is extended, so I’d say he’s still hoping for his moment.


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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I wasn't saying he was a mercenary, he could probably get more money elsewhere, just mean that he's probably happy with what he's got and doesn't need to move for money.

I'm baffled by your argument there. You're "amazed" that he's still with us but don't think that his wages and the lifestyle would be a factor? And also think that a 32 year old prop who's behind the two Irish THs and hasn't been a part of the first choice 23 for a long time has genuine ambitions to break back in?
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by fourthirtythree »

Guy's got sacks of medals too. It's what any sportsman wants. Why would he move?
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by artaneboy »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I wasn't saying he was a mercenary, he could probably get more money elsewhere, just mean that he's probably happy with what he's got and doesn't need to move for money.

I'm baffled by your argument there. You're "amazed" that he's still with us but don't think that his wages and the lifestyle would be a factor? And also think that a 32 year old prop who's behind the two Irish THs and hasn't been a part of the first choice 23 for a long time has genuine ambitions to break back in?
Baffled- really?

I’ll say this. I think believe that most players, of the necessary character, to play at a high level have to be motivated by making the best of themselves as players first and then any financial benefit. Luckily character shows up strongly in the attributes that make a very good player- so it’s very rarely an extreme trade off.

Bent could certainly get more money elsewhere. I believe he is remaining with Leinster because he is treated well, but also- and primarily because he certainly does believe he’s good enough to play regularly in the Leinster first team squad. And all evidence when he’s asked to do so, is that if it wasn’t for the surfeit of talent coming through the academy, he would be!

A run of injuries and a bit of good form from Michael and he’ll be right. Careers have turned on much stranger and rarer episodes.


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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by Peg Leg »

fourthirtythree wrote:Guy's got sacks of medals too. It's what any sportsman wants. Why would he move?
Driven people drive. I think he has a role here and it extends beyond gametime keeps a driven player and squad leader engaged.
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Yes baffled because you're amazed he's still here yet disagree with me saying that he's got a good thing going. My argument is that he's happy so doesn't need to move, can't see an issue with that.

I'm not suggesting he's phoning it in, never questioned his performances or commitment, but do think he's pretty happy as third choice, and if he wasn't and had a burning ambition to prove himself then he'd have left a long time ago when he was overtaken as Mike's backup by Marty, Furlong, and Porter at various points.
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Peg Leg wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:Guy's got sacks of medals too. It's what any sportsman wants. Why would he move?
Driven people drive. I think he has a role here and it extends beyond gametime keeps a driven player and squad leader engaged.
You're saying he drives the team bus?
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by fourthirtythree »

He's designated driver for the squad Christmas party.

Much appreciated.
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by ronk »

Bent isnt shiny enough for the other provinces to pressure us. Third choice behind the top 2 Irish internationals and probably the best in the world tighthead is a solid position. I think it's a really positive environment where he's a valuable squad player and he's had his share of world class coaches.

He made 19 appearances last season and he might not do any better elsewhere. I'm happy to have such an underrated player.

Guys who are poached dont always find themselves in better positions. But then Munster didn't poach Carbery because they want what's best for him and they care nothing for doing Ireland a favour.

Of all people we should refuse to accept that humbug.

Munster had more outhalves when they poached Carbery, they had more scrumhalves when they poached Nick. They had 2 players who werent on central contracts but made Irish 23s when everyone was fit. They make a token effort to keep them even though they were very popular locals.

This aggression will not be tolerated man.
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by ronk »

I love by the way that breakthrough players are getting chances back to back. Really useful for their development before they get back to training focus once Heineken Cup returns
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by ronk »

Peg Leg wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:Guy's got sacks of medals too. It's what any sportsman wants. Why would he move?
Driven people drive. I think he has a role here and it extends beyond gametime keeps a driven player and squad leader engaged.
He's a team player, which is natural for props. There's no shortage of drive in Leinster, it's ego that would have moved him.
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NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by artaneboy »

Whoop! Wonderful kick from Ross. Great try from Dave!


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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by wixfjord »

What an effin kick after some lovely carrying by the forwards.

A Byrne has started well.
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Re: NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

Post by fourthirtythree »

Wingers working hard, great kick pass to Kearney for the score. Made it look facile.
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