NG Dragons Vs Leinster Rodney Pde Sat 1st Dec 17.15

[Dave Cahill]

Nope. One player, at least, from each side, in contact and on their feet over the ball. There was no Leinster player on his feet over the ball, therefore there was no ruck.

[LeinsterLeader]

Nope. One player, at least, from each side, in contact and on their feet over the ball. There was no Leinster player on his feet over the ball, therefore there was no ruck.

So how do they now prevent teams running around the far side of the ball (ala Italy V England a few years ago) if they aren't engaging and forming rucks?

[ChrisUppy]

Nope. One player, at least, from each side, in contact and on their feet over the ball. There was no Leinster player on his feet over the ball, therefore there was no ruck.

So how do they now prevent teams running around the far side of the ball (ala Italy V England a few years ago) if they aren't engaging and forming rucks?

They changed the definition of the offside line:

"Offside lines are created at a tackle when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball, which is on the ground. Each team’s offside line runs parallel to the goal line through the hindmost point of any player in the tackle or on their feet over the ball. If that point is on or behind the goal line, the offside line for that team is the goal line."

[ChrisUppy]

I know it doesn't matter now but if you look at the Dragons try, Wainwright was in an offside position when he picked the ball from the ruck. It was exactly the same as the disallowed try by Doris. You would hope for consistency.

There was no ruck, it was a tackle only - therefore it wasn't offside. He actually refereed it exactly as he described when he was asking the TMO about the Doris disallowed try

But the offside line is created at a tackle, not a ruck. As as per the above law, the offside line was at the tackled players feet, meaning the dragons player over the ball who eventually picked was offside. Or am I missing something?

[Dave Cahill]

Nope. One player, at least, from each side, in contact and on their feet over the ball. There was no Leinster player on his feet over the ball, therefore there was no ruck.

So how do they now prevent teams running around the far side of the ball (ala Italy V England a few years ago) if they aren't engaging and forming rucks?

They introduced a Law Variation to introduce an offside line at a tackle by saying a ruck only needed one player on their feet over the tackled player (with no reference to which team he was on). That version didn't make the new law book though - the new simplified laws removed reference to the tackled player entirely to read

15.2 A ruck is formed when at least one player from each team are in contact, on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground

[Dave Cahill]

I know it doesn't matter now but if you look at the Dragons try, Wainwright was in an offside position when he picked the ball from the ruck. It was exactly the same as the disallowed try by Doris. You would hope for consistency.

There was no ruck, it was a tackle only - therefore it wasn't offside. He actually refereed it exactly as he described when he was asking the TMO about the Doris disallowed try

But the offside line is created at a tackle, not a ruck. As as per the above law, the offside line was at the tackled players feet, meaning the dragons player over the ball who eventually picked was offside. Or am I missing something?

Yes, a offside line is only created for other players if the original player doesn't play the ball, as he is entitled to do as it is open play until a ruck is formed. If he chooses to not play the ball but remains on his feet over it, then his foot nearest his own goal line marks the offside line for other players. If a further player from his own side joins him, he must do so from an onside position and through the gate. A player on his own though, standing over the ball that is on the ground isn't subject to any offside line, once he himself was onside when he arrived (from a previous phase of play)

[hugonaut]

We now have by far the best offence and defence in the league. We're scoring nearly 40 points a game. Are there question marks over the competitiveness of the league I wonder? The Ospreys and Dragons didn't look like they were up for it for large tracts of the games. Richard Hibbard is a 3 time Lion but clearly can't be arsed. I know he's 34 but then again so is Scott Fardy.

They didn't look up for it alright. They had lads out there putting in very poor levels of effort and then they had a couple of players who are just of a really low standard.

I got to see the game early this morning on Youtube and was really on the lookout for where they were weak. A couple of things stood out: their second row Rynard Landman [this guy: http://www.itsrugby.co.uk/player_12328.html ] doesn't look like he's capable of playing at this level – a basic professional level – anymore. Either that or he doesn't buy into the idea that rugby has changed in any way in the last 30 years.

He was behind the play so often: arriving at rucks when the scrumhalf had his hands on it, being left behind by the lead man when he was supposed to be in a pod, and missed tackle after tackle – six missed tackles for a second row is a staggering high number considering that it's generally people running into you from short distance. We dominated them up front in tight play, mauling them down the park at will – we mauled 15 times – and disrupted their lineout down to a 70% success rate. He couldn't contribute when they had the ball in general play, he was very poor when we had the ball in general play, and his efforts in tight play [set and open] were negligible. He's a journeyman pro and seems like a real rugby lifer, but 'his legs are gone', to borrow a phrase.

Similarly, Hibbard is like your man Randy The Ram from the film The Wrestler. He still gives it a shot, but he doesn't have a lot of resources left to give. He's worn a lot of tread off his tires - 175 games for the Ospreys, 100 games for Gloucester, 42 games for Wales and 9 games for the Lions. That's 326 pro games, and for a player of his type and his playing style, those are huge miles on the clock. The crazy thing is that he's in the first year of a three-year deal [source: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... y-14071598 ]. Great work from his agent, but I can't see him adding any value at all after this year.

Obviously the individual tackling of Tovey and inside centre Sage was tragic. Tovey is a lightweight from the old school of outhalves, i.e. occasional nice touches but ultimately a flakey non-tackler. Sage is pretty young [23] but has bounced around four SA provinces before arriving in Newport and there's obviously a bit of an issue when you move around that much.

Obviously Jackman was precluded from attending the match on disciplinary grounds, but you can't put all the blame on the players. They're not good players, but they're not well coached either.

[wixfjord]

I think the difference quality coaching can make was incredibly apparent over the last two games.

We were down to the bare bones in places but on both occasions our pack was completely dominant and our youthful backs looked switched on and aware of what was going to happen next.

Again the caveat is that these were two poor teams, but they were also teams full of more experienced players who should’ve been much closer to us.

We also played at a level of ruck speed that neither Dragons or Ospreys could get near.

When any of our sides get close to that, we have the potential to blow teams away. Wasps this year and Scarlets in the semi are two other examples at a higher level.

It looks like one of the benefits of Stu's Tuesday sessions and 'comfortable in chaos' mantra.

[leinsterforever]

I think the difference quality coaching can make was incredibly apparent over the last two games.

We were down to the bare bones in places but on both occasions our pack was completely dominant and our youthful backs looked switched on and aware of what was going to happen next.

Again the caveat is that these were two poor teams, but they were also teams full of more experienced players who should’ve been much closer to us.

We also played at a level of ruck speed that neither Dragons or Ospreys could get near.

When any of our sides get close to that, we have the potential to blow teams away. Wasps this year and Scarlets in the semi are two other examples at a higher level.

It looks like one of the benefits of Stu's Tuesday sessions and 'comfortable in chaos' mantra.

These sessions must be very helpful for the young lads when the biggest issue in stepping up a level is the increased pace of the game

[ronk]

System comes into it too. The rush defense eats up teams when it works. Leinster players were jumping to their feet after tackles to get ready for the next one. Neither team in the last 2 weeks really tried to grind that out of us. If you can't turn the blitz you have to stay tight.

Dragons did a lot of very long passes from the scrumhalf against a set blitz and they got smashed almost every time. They faded before we did. The extent to which Ross Byrne made a mockery of their defensive line with his kicking was also a huge factor. They had to respect our running game and left gaps for (allegedly) tricky kicks.

[dropkick]

Eir commentators mentioned that Birch was not at the match. What's that about?

He was serving ban for having a go at a ref after one of the previous matches

Presumably the Cardiff coach will serve a similar ban after his outburst over the reffing of their match with Ulster

When in Rome. The Welsh are always complaining about something.


The gap between the Irish and Welsh is growing. Connacht have overtaken the ospreys and Cardiff. Scarlets are on 29points, 15pts behind Leinster in their conference. Ulster, who are far from where they should be, are also on 29pts.

[mildlyinterested]

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/ ... 57280?s=19

Patterson(20) to Frawley(20) to O'Brien(22) to Deegan(22) to O'Brien(22)

[OTT]

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/ ... 57280?s=19

Patterson(20) to Frawley(20) to O'Brien(22) to Deegan(22) to O'Brien(22)

A third of a Munster team for the next decade there.

They must be salivating looking at that.

[outcast eddie]

The biggest thing about this game is the game 7 days later so the usual smattering of callow youths for this fixture may not get a look in. (edit) Actually, now that I've had a go at trying to pick a team it looks like there'll be no choice but to include a lot of the youngsters.

Some headline names in good form and match ready after AI's so there is no need to risk too many stars.

The Dragons are in a flat spin out to sea so a even a weakened team can expect a win.

Would it be ironic if this game was the straw that breaks Birch's back?

This is normally a fixture I attend but I can't bear to witness the anger directed at the Dragons players by their own fans from the terraces any longer.

It'd be nice to get Dan Leavy, JGP and R O'L some game time ahead of HC.

We await injury update on JC, last seen hors de combat.

Sorry to hear the news about Birch, does this kill his coaching career?