As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby footrush » January 21st, 2019, 1:11 pm

Looks like a combination of Munster faithful and optimistic Scots have mopped up the last of the general sale H Cup Final 2019 tickets .....
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby brenno » January 21st, 2019, 1:39 pm

For what it's worth, latest odd from PP

Leinster 5-4
Saracens 9-4
Racing 9-2
Munster 7-1
Toulouse 16-1
Edinburgh 25-1
Glasgow 66-1
Ulster 100-1
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby Jcahill1 » January 21st, 2019, 5:00 pm

Racing look good value at those odds
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby riocard911 » January 21st, 2019, 5:43 pm

Jcahill1 wrote:Racing look good value at those odds


Edinburgh even better. Personally I think Munster will fail to get an away victory against Cockerill's fellas.
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby Oldschool » January 21st, 2019, 6:00 pm

riocard911 wrote:
Jcahill1 wrote:Racing look good value at those odds


Edinburgh even better. Personally I think Munster will fail to get an away victory against Cockerill's fellas.

I'd ask the question.
Do punters thing Cockerill is a better coach than Van Graan?
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby riocard911 » January 21st, 2019, 7:17 pm

A: Certainly Edinburgh have improved immensely since Cockerill came in. In the case of Van Graan at Munster I'd say the jury is still out.
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby blockhead » January 21st, 2019, 7:25 pm

With their 1st teamers available Edinburgh are a very strong side, as recent results would suggest. So they really could put it up to Munster on the day. But they have lost 6 of their 13 Pro14 games this season so they can't afford any injuries going into that QF.
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby artaneboy » January 21st, 2019, 7:46 pm

Oldschool wrote:
riocard911 wrote:
Jcahill1 wrote:Racing look good value at those odds


Edinburgh even better. Personally I think Munster will fail to get an away victory against Cockerill's fellas.

I'd ask the question.
Do punters thing Cockerill is a better coach than Van Graan?


At the moment- yes. Cockerill has done a great job with Emba- with little enough outside help.

Van Grann is not a bad coach, but he hadn’t yet led his team to the next level. That’s despite a lot of support from the IRFU.

But in fairness VG is still young and developing. Too early to make a definite judgement yet. The next few months will tell a lot for both men.


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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby carlow man » January 21st, 2019, 7:58 pm

If watching a team box kick their way to victory every match is the measure of a good coach then van grab is up there with the best. Not sure Munster need a coach as it looks like Murray decides how they play regardless of who is in charge. Awful stuff to watch.
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby MylesNaGapoleen » January 21st, 2019, 10:44 pm

carlow man wrote:If watching a team box kick their way to victory every match is the measure of a good coach then van grab is up there with the best. Not sure Munster need a coach as it looks like Murray decides how they play regardless of who is in charge. Awful stuff to watch.


Not disagreeing with you...but it is pretty clear that, against a decent quality team like exeter (gloucester were exceptionally poor), Munsters backline doesn't cut it as an attacking option....so it was no surprise for me to see so much box kicking. Especially with the turnover specialists in the form of POM and BEIRNE following the chase. I'm guessing that call came from the coach rather than murray.

I actually found the game engrossing to watch. We're spoilt at leinster with the quality and depth of our backline...so to watch an old-school style game plan munster employed was enjoyable. not pretty..but enjoyable.
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby carlow man » January 21st, 2019, 11:17 pm

It's rugby from the dark ages. The only backline move they created against us came from a mistake. Earls taking a pass that was meant for carbery. Munster don't have the skillset or the gameplan from the coaches to produce it. Every time they are up against it they just kick and chase. And somehow people think this makes them one of the top sides in Europe. They may aswell not have a backs coach as they just feed off mistakes from the opposition and turnover ball then try to spin it wide for conway to either chase a grubber or hope that he finds a bit of space to run past his marker. It would be a joke if they ended up getting to the final and god forbid they won it. We would never hear the end of it!
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby blockhead » January 21st, 2019, 11:29 pm

carlow man wrote:It's rugby from the dark ages. The only backline move they created against us came from a mistake. Earls taking a pass that was meant for carbery. Munster don't have the skillset or the gameplan from the coaches to produce it. Every time they are up against it they just kick and chase. And somehow people think this makes them one of the top sides in Europe. They may aswell not have a backs coach as they just feed off mistakes from the opposition and turnover ball then try to spin it wide for conway to either chase a grubber or hope that he finds a bit of space to run past his marker. It would be a joke if they ended up getting to the final and god forbid they won it. We would never hear the end of it!


Earls, Conway, Carbery, Murray. Those lads are as skillful as anyone out there. The other lads aren't too bad either. Felix Jones, he's out of his depth.
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As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby Serb » January 21st, 2019, 11:55 pm

I’d add Farrell to that list too. They have a top quality back line in terms of personnel. They just have no idea what to do with them. They also have no depth.

Without Farrell, Arnold and Scannell just weren’t good enough as a centre pairing. Haley also isn’t up to much imo, better fullback than Zebo was, but certainly isn’t top tier at the moment.
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby ronk » January 22nd, 2019, 1:53 am

You say dark ages, they say glory days.

Ian Dowling started both winning HC finals. Munster tried a different game after Kidney but didn't win anything. They're geared towards kick chase and they're okay with that.
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby Dave Cahill » January 22nd, 2019, 2:19 am

Thats not quite accurate. They won the league in 2009 and 2011 under McGahan
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby carlow man » January 22nd, 2019, 8:14 am

blockhead wrote:
carlow man wrote:It's rugby from the dark ages. The only backline move they created against us came from a mistake. Earls taking a pass that was meant for carbery. Munster don't have the skillset or the gameplan from the coaches to produce it. Every time they are up against it they just kick and chase. And somehow people think this makes them one of the top sides in Europe. They may aswell not have a backs coach as they just feed off mistakes from the opposition and turnover ball then try to spin it wide for conway to either chase a grubber or hope that he finds a bit of space to run past his marker. It would be a joke if they ended up getting to the final and god forbid they won it. We would never hear the end of it!


Earls, Conway, Carbery, Murray. Those lads are as skillful as anyone out there. The other lads aren't too bad either. Felix Jones, he's out of his depth.


Carbery is but not the others. We know why that is. I've yet to see a backline move from Munster where I've sat and thought 'that was class'.
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby blockhead » January 22nd, 2019, 1:23 pm

carlow man wrote:
blockhead wrote:
Earls, Conway, Carbery, Murray. Those lads are as skillful as anyone out there. The other lads aren't too bad either. Felix Jones, he's out of his depth.


Carbery is but not the others. We know why that is. I've yet to see a backline move from Munster where I've sat and thought 'that was class'.


Come on man. Keith Earls is a fantastic player, world class winger. Conway, is now putting in displays that he had promised when he was a youngster. Murray, just about the best scrum half in the world. Sweetman, Farrell, Scanell are not half bad either. Gameplan/poor coaching are restricting their play. Can you imagine what Lancaster could do with those lads.
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby OTT » January 22nd, 2019, 1:26 pm

blockhead wrote:
carlow man wrote:
blockhead wrote:
Earls, Conway, Carbery, Murray. Those lads are as skillful as anyone out there. The other lads aren't too bad either. Felix Jones, he's out of his depth.


Carbery is but not the others. We know why that is. I've yet to see a backline move from Munster where I've sat and thought 'that was class'.


Come on man. Keith Earls is a fantastic player, world class winger. Conway, is now putting in displays that he had promised when he was a youngster. Murray, just about the best scrum half in the world. Sweetman, Farrell, Scanell are not half bad either. Gameplan/poor coaching are restricting their play. Can you imagine what Lancaster could do with those lads.


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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby carlow man » January 22nd, 2019, 1:56 pm

blockhead wrote:
carlow man wrote:
blockhead wrote:
Earls, Conway, Carbery, Murray. Those lads are as skillful as anyone out there. The other lads aren't too bad either. Felix Jones, he's out of his depth.


Carbery is but not the others. We know why that is. I've yet to see a backline move from Munster where I've sat and thought 'that was class'.


Come on man. Keith Earls is a fantastic player, world class winger. Conway, is now putting in displays that he had promised when he was a youngster. Murray, just about the best scrum half in the world. Sweetman, Farrell, Scanell are not half bad either. Gameplan/poor coaching are restricting their play. Can you imagine what Lancaster could do with those lads.


Anytime they try any sort of intricate backs move someone either knocks on, pass goes into touch, pass goes behind the player or they over run the ball. It's not rocket science. Leinster's backs are far more comfortable running those moves than the Munster lads. Coaching comes into it at the start but the ability to do it during the match under pressure isn't the fault of the coach, that's when the players should be judged. It's obviously isn't practiced enough hence they revert to type: box kick and chase.

They had a coach in Rob Penney who tried to change the way they play and he got hounded out because no one wanted to play that way down there.

By the way I do think earls is top quality but don't get the love in for conway. Prefer larmour personally but I'm sure others will disagree.
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Re: As it stands - Heineken cup 2019

Postby leinsterforever » January 22nd, 2019, 3:30 pm

Munster's defence will be tough for a team like Edinburgh (not the slickest attack) to break down. Glasgow have the skills to get outside Munster's rush defence. I don't think Edinburgh do
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