Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby Flash Gordon » March 19th, 2019, 4:45 pm

wixfjord wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
I think that's unfair on Byrne. His attacking game has come on in leaps and bounds this year, particularly his running game. He has led us through quite a few big Euro games at this stage too.
Who Joe Schmidt rates and who Leo/Lancaster rates are two different things, and I think we were all surprised at how unlucky Byrne was to not make the squad during the 6N.


The difference is that Joe has options - albeit more limited with Jackson and Madigan no longer available. Personally I think Byrne is very much work in progress and not close to international class currently. With Sexton off form currently and Joey having moved on, the Leinster out half situation hasn't been this poor in years. Similarly for Ireland Jackson and Madigan no longer available and Carbery pretty injury prone, Ireland's depth isn't great.


How do you define international class? He has objectively performed at a higher level than Carty, who got a good bit of gametime in the 6N. He performed well in the Autumn when coming in early for Ireland too.
While I don't think he'll usurp Johnny, I think you're massively underrating a guy who has done really well this year and has led us through some really big games in Sexton's absence - Wasps away, Toulouse home, Munster in the Aviva (where he comfortably outplayed Joey), Munster in the semi last year, Montpellier away last year, Exeter in the Aviva etc etc. For a 'good Pro14 player' that's not a bad track record is it?


I think that's a pretty generous assessment to be honest. I watch him game after game as i was an outhalf and his delivery is way too deep and he clutters space. Thought Toulosue was different to be fair to the lad. I suppose our subjective opinions are what they are, you might think he's objectively at a higher level than Carty but Joe doesn't pick him.

Also to be fair, this is a snapshot in his development of course and he is 23. His kicking game has improve immeasurably from tee and hand but he's not there yet. Obviously we will both hope he improves and becomes a genuinely better player.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby Dave Cahill » March 19th, 2019, 8:24 pm

Based upon nothing but observation I'd wonder if bad doggies who won't go for walkies don't get biscuits
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby riocard911 » March 19th, 2019, 9:18 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:Based upon nothing but observation I'd wonder if bad doggies who won't go for walkies don't get biscuits


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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby deco » March 19th, 2019, 10:55 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:Based upon nothing but observation I'd wonder if bad doggies who won't go for walkies don't get biscuits


Probably more truth in this than most would care to admit
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby wise7 » March 20th, 2019, 2:54 pm

But you have to bow to the qualified assessment of someone having played in that same position and join them in hoping the lad ''can improve and become a genuinely better player''!
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby rooster » March 21st, 2019, 1:03 pm

cormac wrote:I've zero doubt that Sexton will start the Ulster match (assuming fitness) but I'd hope that if he continues to stink up the place we won't wait until the 73rd minute to replace him.
I would hope he stays the full 80 if he is terrible and has spat his dummy out
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby mildlyinterested » March 21st, 2019, 1:05 pm

rooster wrote:
cormac wrote:I've zero doubt that Sexton will start the Ulster match (assuming fitness) but I'd hope that if he continues to stink up the place we won't wait until the 73rd minute to replace him.
I would hope he stays the full 80 if he is terrible and has spat his dummy out


sexton rarely melts down like that for leinster, if ever.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby rooster » March 21st, 2019, 1:06 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
rooster wrote:
cormac wrote:I've zero doubt that Sexton will start the Ulster match (assuming fitness) but I'd hope that if he continues to stink up the place we won't wait until the 73rd minute to replace him.
I would hope he stays the full 80 if he is terrible and has spat his dummy out


sexton rarely melts down like that for leinster, if ever.
Unfortunately for us, but perhaps......
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 21st, 2019, 1:18 pm

rooster wrote:
cormac wrote:I've zero doubt that Sexton will start the Ulster match (assuming fitness) but I'd hope that if he continues to stink up the place we won't wait until the 73rd minute to replace him.
I would hope he stays the full 80 if he is terrible and has spat his dummy out


It happened against Scarlets two years ago and he was left on until close to the end. Also happened against Munster at Christmas and he was taken off early but that was partly because he was injured.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby wixfjord » March 21st, 2019, 1:28 pm

An updated stab at next week’s side based on that announcement (and no injuries pending!)

Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Fardy, Ryan, Rhys, Leavy, Conan, McGrath, Sexton, Larmour, ROL, Ringrose, Byrne, RK
McGrath, Byrne, Porter, Molony, SOB, JGP, Byrne, Daly
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby riocard911 » March 21st, 2019, 1:45 pm

wixfjord wrote:An updated stab at next week’s side based on that announcement (and no injuries pending!)

Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Fardy, Ryan, Rhys, Leavy, Conan, McGrath, Sexton, Larmour, ROL, Ringrose, Byrne, RK
McGrath, Byrne, Porter, Molony, SOB, JGP, Byrne, Daly


Other than you got your 16 and 17 mixed up - :D - I'd say that's pretty on the money!!!!!
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby mildlyinterested » March 21st, 2019, 3:22 pm

wixfjord wrote:An updated stab at next week’s side based on that announcement (and no injuries pending!)

Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Fardy, Ryan, Rhys, Leavy, Conan, McGrath, Sexton, Larmour, ROL, Ringrose, Byrne, RK
McGrath, Byrne, Porter, Molony, SOB, JGP, Byrne, Daly


Bryan Byrne ahead of Tracy? don't see that.

Who knows about SOB, but if Deegan goes well i'd be tempted to bench him ahead of SOB.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby leinster23 » March 21st, 2019, 4:59 pm

wixfjord wrote:An updated stab at next week’s side based on that announcement (and no injuries pending!)

Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Fardy, Ryan, Rhys, Leavy, Conan, McGrath, Sexton, Larmour, ROL, Ringrose, Byrne, RK
McGrath, Byrne, Porter, Molony, SOB, JGP, Byrne, Daly

Crazy to say it but surely Ed Byrne is the more likely of the two for next week.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby wixfjord » March 23rd, 2019, 6:57 pm

Ludik took a very heavy knock in first few minutes for Ulster this evening. Looked like he might have hurt knee ligaments. Helped off. I'd say it's unlikely he'll play next week.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby hugonaut » March 24th, 2019, 1:43 pm

wixfjord wrote:An updated stab at next week’s side based on that announcement (and no injuries pending!)

Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Fardy, Ryan, Rhys, Leavy, Conan, McGrath, Sexton, Larmour, ROL, Ringrose, Byrne, RK
McGrath, Byrne, Porter, Molony, SOB, JGP, Byrne, Daly


I think that Dave Kearney will take the No23 jersey ahead of Barry Daly, Ferg and Tomane. Deegan might get in ahead of Sean O'Brien for the No20 jersey, but I'd say that there's going to be some sleepless nights amongst the coaches over that decision - similar stakes at play at No17 between Jack McGrath and Ed Byrne.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby neill_m » March 24th, 2019, 2:03 pm

wixfjord wrote:Ludik took a very heavy knock in first few minutes for Ulster this evening. Looked like he might have hurt knee ligaments. Helped off. I'd say it's unlikely he'll play next week.


Indeed. Michael Lowry at 15 I would say.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby Jackie Brown » March 24th, 2019, 2:03 pm

Can't see McGrath playing against his new province.

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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby hugonaut » March 24th, 2019, 2:08 pm

Here's how Ulster lined out in their last European fixture, the 13-14 win against Leicester in Welford Road:

Backs [15-10]: Ludik, Baloucoune, Addison, McCloskey, Stockdale, Burns, Shanahan
Forwards [1-8]: O'Sullivan, Best, Moore, Henderson, Treadwell, Reidy, Murphy, Coetzee,
Subs [16-23]: Herring, Warwick, Kane, O'Connor, Timoney, Cooney, Lowry, Cave

Ludik picked up an injury against the Kings yesterday. Reidy was a late cry-off from the team to face the Dragons on 3rd Mar [source: https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/rug ... n-15913005 ] and didn't feature against the Kings at the weekend. Addison has been an injury scratch for more than two months now ... it started off as a bad back, but I'm not sure what the current prognosis is. Henderson was ruled out of Ireland's game against Wales last weekend.

If none of them are available, there are obvious swaps in: Lowry for Ludik, Cave for Addison, Timoney for Reidy and O'Connor for Henderson. But those swaps would hurt their bench quite a bit.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 24th, 2019, 2:23 pm

hugonaut wrote:
wixfjord wrote:An updated stab at next week’s side based on that announcement (and no injuries pending!)

Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Fardy, Ryan, Rhys, Leavy, Conan, McGrath, Sexton, Larmour, ROL, Ringrose, Byrne, RK
McGrath, Byrne, Porter, Molony, SOB, JGP, Byrne, Daly


I think that Dave Kearney will take the No23 jersey ahead of Barry Daly, Ferg and Tomane. Deegan might get in ahead of Sean O'Brien for the No20 jersey, but I'd say that there's going to be some sleepless nights amongst the coaches over that decision - similar stakes at play at No17 between Jack McGrath and Ed Byrne.


If we were sure that Marty Moore was out, I'd have Ed Byrne benching. But if Marty is fit I'd have Jack.

No. 20 is a bigger problem and if Leo throws out SO'B, we won't see him again for the rest of the Season. Sean doesn't add to our line-out but could eventually explode back to ball-carrying best, when he becomes a top-class bench option and has experience at the highest level at 6, 7 and 8. Max is in form and adds to our line-out and is more expert than Sean at No. 8, but a more limited option at 6 or 7. He's growing as a ball-carrier, but not yet at the level of SO'B at his best.

So, in both of these cases, does Leo take the risk of investing in the future or remembering the past glories and the evidence that both Jack and Sean have produced for Leinster when we needed it in the biggest games? I'm certainly on the side of proven past performance as my core bench-mark.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby wixfjord » March 24th, 2019, 2:29 pm

It would be McGrath and SOB ahead of Byrne and Deegan for me too.
Would be the conservative decision but I think Ulster would probably on balance prefer to be facing the latter than the former off the bench.

It's not like Leo & Stu are afraid of making the tough calls though in fairness.
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