Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby paddyor » March 24th, 2019, 5:21 pm

hugonaut wrote:Here's how Ulster lined out in their last European fixture, the 13-14 win against Leicester in Welford Road:

Backs [15-10]: Ludik, Baloucoune, Addison, McCloskey, Stockdale, Burns, Shanahan
Forwards [1-8]: O'Sullivan, Best, Moore, Henderson, Treadwell, Reidy, Murphy, Coetzee,
Subs [16-23]: Herring, Warwick, Kane, O'Connor, Timoney, Cooney, Lowry, Cave

Ludik picked up an injury against the Kings yesterday. Reidy was a late cry-off from the team to face the Dragons on 3rd Mar [source: https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/rug ... n-15913005 ] and didn't feature against the Kings at the weekend. [b]Addison has been an injury scratch for more than two months now ... it started off as a bad back, but I'm not sure what the current prognosis is.[/b] Henderson was ruled out of Ireland's game against Wales last weekend.

If none of them are available, there are obvious swaps in: Lowry for Ludik, Cave for Addison, Timoney for Reidy and O'Connor for Henderson. But those swaps would hurt their bench quite a bit.

From what I've heard, this is exactly what killed off his England chances. He'd have a run of form then pick up a niggle then be gone for months.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 24th, 2019, 5:50 pm

I'd be very surprised if SOB isn't picked next weekend but I really don't see why it's a big call, he's not fit and not playing well, and Deegan is fit and playing well. It'd be different if he looked fit and there was more chance of playing back into form, and actually that's how I'd view Jack McGrath's potential selection if I was in charge.

I already said that Jack benching on Friday pretty much confirms it for me that he's off, but this will be the clincher, I reckon he won't be involved if he's gone, don't think it'll come down to form.

All things being equal I'd start JGP but I think I'd prefer to go with the combo of Luke and Lowe, don't like Larmour on the left wing and think the cover would be fine. So if that happened then I'd revise what I said about starting COB at 12 and putting ROL to the wing. Ulster's kicking game isn't great so I wouldn't be against Larmour at 15 anyway but can't see that happening.

So I'd go with..

Healy
Cronin (Tracy if he's not fit)
Furlong
Fardy
Ryan
Rhys
Leavy
Conan
Luke
Johnny
Lowe
ROL
Ringrose
Adam
ROB

Treacy if Cronin is fit.
Jack
Porter
Kearney
Deegan
HOS (think Nick was deregistered?)
Ross
Larmour

But I know it won't be like that, I expect Larmour to start, and Ed Byrne, SOB, and JGP to bench. Hope that COB is on the bench in that scenario.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby cormac » March 24th, 2019, 11:17 pm

Yep, McCarthy isn't in the Euro squad.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby leinster23 » March 24th, 2019, 11:25 pm

Assuming O'Loughlin is starting, I'd prefer Reid or Conor O'Brien in the 23 shirt than a winger. It's a lot easier to move O'Loughlin out to the wing than it is to shoehorn someone else into the centre.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby backrower8 » March 25th, 2019, 11:58 am

Do people agree that Porter's scrummaging has really deteriorated since the wheeled scrum at the end of te Scottish match that Joe went mad about? Benty did a better job against the excellent Schoeman on Friday.

Re Joe Tomane. His repeated selection, when fit and despite very poor performance after poor performance, is an absolute mystery to me.

He bears absolutely no comparison to any other high-grade import we have ever had. He has never got to the pace of things. In fact, he is so far off the pace that, were he anyone else he would sink without trace.

He is not as a good as a range of others who are fit to play at 11, 12,13 & 14. In fact he is a real liability who lets the squad down badly every time he plays.

I think his further selection would be an insult to the squad. He is taking up valuable time and resources and should be moved on asap.

This is not a swipe at the man himself, purely his rugby. I am more concerned for the feelings of his peers in the squad threequarter-line than I am for him. If he wasn't an import he would not have got the minutes he has got when fit this season. No more please.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby bails » March 25th, 2019, 12:49 pm

backrower8 wrote:Do people agree that Porter's scrummaging has really deteriorated since the wheeled scrum at the end of te Scottish match that Joe went mad about? Benty did a better job against the excellent Schoeman on Friday.

Re Joe Tomane. His repeated selection, when fit and despite very poor performance after poor performance, is an absolute mystery to me.

He bears absolutely no comparison to any other high-grade import we have ever had. He has never got to the pace of things. In fact, he is so far off the pace that, were he anyone else he would sink without trace.

He is not as a good as a range of others who are fit to play at 11, 12,13 & 14. In fact he is a real liability who lets the squad down badly every time he plays.

I think his further selection would be an insult to the squad. He is taking up valuable time and resources and should be moved on asap.

This is not a swipe at the man himself, purely his rugby. I am more concerned for the feelings of his peers in the squad threequarter-line than I am for him. If he wasn't an import he would not have got the minutes he has got when fit this season. No more please.



No I don't agree that Porter's scrummaging has really deteriorated at all.
My recollection was that the scrummage improved last Friday night when the replacements came on, and while I dont believe Benty has ever let us down, I do think Porter is a better scrummager, with potential to become World Class.

Tomane is a strange one alright, in fairness he now looks fitter than he was and Friday was his first game in 4 months.
Lets pass judgement about him now he appears fit, when he has had a run of games - however I don't expect to see him togged out at the weekend
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby deco » March 25th, 2019, 1:12 pm

backrower8 wrote:Do people agree that Porter's scrummaging has really deteriorated since the wheeled scrum at the end of te Scottish match that Joe went mad about? Benty did a better job against the excellent Schoeman on Friday.

Re Joe Tomane. His repeated selection, when fit and despite very poor performance after poor performance, is an absolute mystery to me.

He bears absolutely no comparison to any other high-grade import we have ever had. He has never got to the pace of things. In fact, he is so far off the pace that, were he anyone else he would sink without trace.

He is not as a good as a range of others who are fit to play at 11, 12,13 & 14. In fact he is a real liability who lets the squad down badly every time he plays.

I think his further selection would be an insult to the squad. He is taking up valuable time and resources and should be moved on asap.

This is not a swipe at the man himself, purely his rugby. I am more concerned for the feelings of his peers in the squad threequarter-line than I am for him. If he wasn't an import he would not have got the minutes he has got when fit this season. No more please.



It is a bit.

He was starting to show some form before he got injured. Now he deserves a run of games/bench spots. Surely we should give him 50/30 mins v Ulster and as many minutes as possible v Treviso, Weegies and Ulster before we write him off.

With the strength stripped from our depth, he could be a very useful player by the end of the season (if he finds form).
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby bluemagic » March 25th, 2019, 1:18 pm

VDF out for the season.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 25th, 2019, 1:26 pm

Nooooooooooo! That's a lot of rugby to miss in the space of a year and a half, poor fella. At least he'll be fine for the World Cup I suppose. It'd be great if Will Connors could get a couple of games now but IIRC he's out for the season too. Penny could end up getting more game time too.

Gutted for Josh though, he missed out on the business end of last season too.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby wixfjord » March 25th, 2019, 1:27 pm

Bar VDF, it's the usual 'say nuthin' approach to injury news.

Reading between the lines, I'd say Cronin & Byrne should be ok and Robbie probably won't make it.

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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 25th, 2019, 1:30 pm

deco wrote:

It is a bit.

He was starting to show some form before he got injured. Now he deserves a run of games/bench spots. Surely we should give him 50/30 mins v Ulster and as many minutes as possible v Treviso, Weegies and Ulster before we write him off.



I agree about giving him game time but you can't seriously think he should be involved against Ulster? The next two games would be fair enough but I think I'd probably having benching him for both of them after the last game went so badly.

I'd see SOB in the way, wouldn't play him this weekend but would start him in the two games after that and hope that he finds some form and fitness.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 25th, 2019, 1:33 pm

Tightness in the foot sounds like a strange one. I think I've got foot cramps the odd time after long walks and don't really see how else you'd get something like that, wonder what happened.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby backrower8 » March 25th, 2019, 4:26 pm

deco wrote:
backrower8 wrote:Re Joe Tomane. His repeated selection, when fit and despite very poor performance after poor performance, is an absolute mystery to me.

He bears absolutely no comparison to any other high-grade import we have ever had. He has never got to the pace of things. In fact, he is so far off the pace that, were he anyone else he would sink without trace.

He is not as a good as a range of others who are fit to play at 11, 12,13 & 14. In fact he is a real liability who lets the squad down badly every time he plays.

I think his further selection would be an insult to the squad. He is taking up valuable time and resources and should be moved on asap.

This is not a swipe at the man himself, purely his rugby. I am more concerned for the feelings of his peers in the squad threequarter-line than I am for him. If he wasn't an import he would not have got the minutes he has got when fit this season. No more please.



It is a bit.

He was starting to show some form before he got injured. Now he deserves a run of games/bench spots. Surely we should give him 50/30 mins v Ulster and as many minutes as possible v Treviso, Weegies and Ulster before we write him off.

With the strength stripped from our depth, he could be a very useful player by the end of the season (if he finds form).


I haven't said anything about Tomane the man, just his rugby contribution to Leinster. It's not actually possible for me to take a swipe at Tomane the man. I haven't met him. People should be as protective about players who are developed here and are getting gazumped by a player who has shown no sign of being worthy of a place in our squad.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby mildlyinterested » March 25th, 2019, 4:29 pm

deco wrote:
backrower8 wrote:Do people agree that Porter's scrummaging has really deteriorated since the wheeled scrum at the end of te Scottish match that Joe went mad about? Benty did a better job against the excellent Schoeman on Friday.

Re Joe Tomane. His repeated selection, when fit and despite very poor performance after poor performance, is an absolute mystery to me.

He bears absolutely no comparison to any other high-grade import we have ever had. He has never got to the pace of things. In fact, he is so far off the pace that, were he anyone else he would sink without trace.

He is not as a good as a range of others who are fit to play at 11, 12,13 & 14. In fact he is a real liability who lets the squad down badly every time he plays.

I think his further selection would be an insult to the squad. He is taking up valuable time and resources and should be moved on asap.

This is not a swipe at the man himself, purely his rugby. I am more concerned for the feelings of his peers in the squad threequarter-line than I am for him. If he wasn't an import he would not have got the minutes he has got when fit this season. No more please.



It is a bit.

He was starting to show some form before he got injured. Now he deserves a run of games/bench spots. Surely we should give him 50/30 mins v Ulster and as many minutes as possible v Treviso, Weegies and Ulster before we write him off.

With the strength stripped from our depth, he could be a very useful player by the end of the season (if he finds form).


He should be nowhere near the european team.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby backrower8 » March 25th, 2019, 4:31 pm

bails wrote:No I don't agree that Porter's scrummaging has really deteriorated at all.
My recollection was that the scrummage improved last Friday night when the replacements came on, and while I dont believe Benty has ever let us down, I do think Porter is a better scrummager, with potential to become World Class.

Tomane is a strange one alright, in fairness he now looks fitter than he was and Friday was his first game in 4 months.
Lets pass judgement about him now he appears fit, when he has had a run of games - however I don't expect to see him togged out at the weekend


Porter is giving away more penalties at scrum time since Xmas than any of other frontline props. He is still early in his tight-head career, but for me he is on a downward dip at the moment.


Tomane being fit, meannig trim and not carrying ballast, is not anything to celebrate. There are no prizes for outside backs that lose some timber after a few months working with the S&C Dept. Especially marquee signings like Tomane.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby backrower8 » March 25th, 2019, 4:35 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:He should be nowhere near the european team.


For me, he should be our last pick in the threequarter line after all others have been ruled out on form and fitness. We have plenty of more deserving options.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby deco » March 25th, 2019, 4:53 pm

backrower8 wrote:
deco wrote:
backrower8 wrote:Re Joe Tomane. His repeated selection, when fit and despite very poor performance after poor performance, is an absolute mystery to me.

He bears absolutely no comparison to any other high-grade import we have ever had. He has never got to the pace of things. In fact, he is so far off the pace that, were he anyone else he would sink without trace.

He is not as a good as a range of others who are fit to play at 11, 12,13 & 14. In fact he is a real liability who lets the squad down badly every time he plays.

I think his further selection would be an insult to the squad. He is taking up valuable time and resources and should be moved on asap.

This is not a swipe at the man himself, purely his rugby. I am more concerned for the feelings of his peers in the squad threequarter-line than I am for him. If he wasn't an import he would not have got the minutes he has got when fit this season. No more please.



It is a bit.

He was starting to show some form before he got injured. Now he deserves a run of games/bench spots. Surely we should give him 50/30 mins v Ulster and as many minutes as possible v Treviso, Weegies and Ulster before we write him off.

With the strength stripped from our depth, he could be a very useful player by the end of the season (if he finds form).


I haven't said anything about Tomane the man, just his rugby contribution to Leinster. It's not actually possible for me to take a swipe at Tomane the man. I haven't met him. People should be as protective about players who are developed here and are getting gazumped by a player who has shown no sign of being worthy of a place in our squad.


Can't help yourself, can you.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby carlow man » March 25th, 2019, 5:48 pm

Maybe just insert: based on ability shown thus far, in that last sentence?
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby wixfjord » March 25th, 2019, 6:05 pm

Leo made an interesting point in his presser today. Talked about how Munster would be much more familiar with the Aviva than Ulster because we bring their game there.

Obviously there are a fair few Ulster guys who would’ve played there before, but it is an interesting one.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster: AVIVA, Heino QF

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 25th, 2019, 6:50 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
He should be nowhere near the european team.


+1.

Cannot see any reason from his current, or previous, displays why he should be anywhere near a selection debate.
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