Leinster's Backrow Options

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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby neiliog93 » February 8th, 2019, 9:42 pm

From a Leinster perspective this makes almost no difference, will arguably help us keep some of our talented young players. SOB has made an enormous impact for us over the course of his career but he has barely played in the last few years.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby cormac » February 8th, 2019, 10:47 pm

40 appearances (33+7) for Leinster since the Lions Tour in 2013. 26 appearances for Ireland in the same time frame, averaging about 12 appearances a season across both teams. Hard to justify his huge salary based on those stats.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby mildlyinterested » February 12th, 2019, 1:02 pm

Leinster Backrow options - ages as of start of next season (1st Sep 2019):

Senior

Rhys Ruddock(28/St. Marys/Number 6) - Signed contract in 2018
Jack Conan(27/St. Gerards/Old Belvedere/Number 8 ) - Signed contract in 2017
Josh Van Der Flier(26/Wesley/UCD/Number 7) - Signed contract in 2018
Dan Leavy(25/St. Michaels/UCD/Number 6-7) - Signed contract in 2017
Josh Murphy(24//St. Michaels/UCD/Number 6) - Signed contract in 2018
Max Deegan(22/St. Michaels/Lansdowne/Number 8 ) - Signed contract in 2017
Will Connors(22/Clongowes/UCD/Number 6-7) - Signed contract in 2018
Caelan Doris(21/Blackrock/St. Mary/Number 8 ) - Signed contract in 2018

Academy
Oisin Dowling(22/St. Michaels/Lansdowne/Number 6) - Academy Year 3
Scott Penny(19/St. Michaels/UCD/Number 7) - Academy Year 2
Martin Moloney(20/Athy RFC/Old Belvedere/Number 6-7) - Academy Year 1


Updated with SOB confirmed gone and Moloney likely joining.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby the spoofer » February 12th, 2019, 3:16 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
Leinster Backrow options - ages as of start of next season (1st Sep 2019):

Senior

Rhys Ruddock(28/St. Marys/Number 6) - Signed contract in 2018
Jack Conan(27/St. Gerards/Old Belvedere/Number 8 ) - Signed contract in 2017
Josh Van Der Flier(26/Wesley/UCD/Number 7) - Signed contract in 2018
Dan Leavy(25/St. Michaels/UCD/Number 6-7) - Signed contract in 2017
Josh Murphy(24//St. Michaels/UCD/Number 6) - Signed contract in 2018
Max Deegan(22/St. Michaels/Lansdowne/Number 8 ) - Signed contract in 2017
Will Connors(22/Clongowes/UCD/Number 6-7) - Signed contract in 2018
Caelan Doris(21/Blackrock/St. Mary/Number 8 ) - Signed contract in 2018

Academy
Oisin Dowling(22/St. Michaels/Lansdowne/Number 6) - Academy Year 3
Scott Penny(19/St. Michaels/UCD/Number 7) - Academy Year 2
Martin Moloney(20/Athy RFC/Old Belvedere/Number 6-7) - Academy Year 1


Updated with SOB confirmed gone and Moloney likely joining.


I can see Penny bumped up this year.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby mildlyinterested » February 12th, 2019, 3:34 pm

the spoofer wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
Leinster Backrow options - ages as of start of next season (1st Sep 2019):

Senior

Rhys Ruddock(28/St. Marys/Number 6) - Signed contract in 2018
Jack Conan(27/St. Gerards/Old Belvedere/Number 8 ) - Signed contract in 2017
Josh Van Der Flier(26/Wesley/UCD/Number 7) - Signed contract in 2018
Dan Leavy(25/St. Michaels/UCD/Number 6-7) - Signed contract in 2017
Josh Murphy(24//St. Michaels/UCD/Number 6) - Signed contract in 2018
Max Deegan(22/St. Michaels/Lansdowne/Number 8 ) - Signed contract in 2017
Will Connors(22/Clongowes/UCD/Number 6-7) - Signed contract in 2018
Caelan Doris(21/Blackrock/St. Mary/Number 8 ) - Signed contract in 2018

Academy
Oisin Dowling(22/St. Michaels/Lansdowne/Number 6) - Academy Year 3
Scott Penny(19/St. Michaels/UCD/Number 7) - Academy Year 2
Martin Moloney(20/Athy RFC/Old Belvedere/Number 6-7) - Academy Year 1


Updated with SOB confirmed gone and Moloney likely joining.


I can see Penny bumped up this year.


probably yeah, Dowling could too.

several good backrow prospects at u19 level but none that look likely to join the academy this summer;

Blindside/Lock
Cian Prendergast(Newbridge/UCD)
Sean O'Brien(Blackrock)

Blindside/Openside
Anthony Ryan(Clongowes/DUFC)
Jody Booth(St. Michaels/DUFC)

Number 8
Ed Brennan(Blackrock)
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby ronk » February 13th, 2019, 4:48 am

3 senior backrow for the weekend and relying on returning internationals or Fardy.

We don't even have an injury crisis.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby mildlyinterested » February 15th, 2019, 9:13 am

some good tidbits from Luke McGrath on Will Connors.

Rehab is made a lot easier by having Will 'Porridge' Connors in the group. The best way I can describe him is "different"! But in a great way.

He is always entertaining and enjoyable to be around. He is returning from an ACL injury so he has been off the field for quite some time but is making good progress.

I am really looking forward to seeing him back in action after such a long lay-off. He has put in endless hours of hard work so it will be great to see him back.

When you are in that injury bubble, in particular a long-term one, keeping the focus and the spirits up can be a challenge but you see the lads really buzzing the closer they get to the end.

Will was in the gym this week passing and taking some balls off our contact skills coach Hugh Hogan and you'd swear he was doing it at a full RDS. He was loving it.


https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 17977.html
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby mildlyinterested » February 18th, 2019, 3:20 pm

In 36 Leinster caps, Max Deegan has scored 10 tries.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby mildlyinterested » February 19th, 2019, 4:57 pm

Connors looking in good nick, hope he gets back playing soon:

Image
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby mildlyinterested » February 20th, 2019, 8:56 am

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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby mildlyinterested » February 22nd, 2019, 8:59 am

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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby mildlyinterested » March 6th, 2019, 10:58 am

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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby backrower8 » March 6th, 2019, 1:27 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Decent Deegan interview: https://www.the42.ie/max-deegan-leinste ... 8-Mar2019/


I am getting more and more perplexed by the way Doris is referenced in hushed tones by the media as if he is shooting the lights out.

I haven't seen enough of him to judge him categorically and I respect that he is rated by his employers as a real prospect in the Kieran Read style of 8, and I am watching him closely in a position that I played mostly myself, along with 7.

There was a flick of the invisible media switch during the summer to signal Doris was about to arrive and he keeps being referenced knowingly while doing nothing more than survive. I really have been waiting ever since for the big reveal but I haven't seen it yet.

For me he is doing no more than treading water, which is fair enough in your maiden season as a senior player at 20 (21 next month). He has not pushed Deegan out to 6 & 7 at all. What I see is that he has been accommodated in his favoured position as the new boy by Stucaster. In fact it has been an armchair/pampered ride with every single one of his 8 starts coming at 8 while Deegan has played 3 times in each of the 6, 7 & 8 positions in his 9 starts...or just 3 times in his preferred position.

I also think that Deegan's musical chairs expereince has been partly our of necessity as we have been very thin at 7 recently and he has dug us out of a hole, surprising himself and the rest of us in the process.

Yes he is a Swordsman, but I really think he is a special talent regardless and is one of 7 Swordsmen out of the mere 17 currently on the books that I would have an issue with losing to another club - along with Ryan, Molony, Leavy, Luke, Ross & ROL.


As for Doris,it would be nice to see what he can do at 6 in two of the remaining four regular PRO14 games.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby OTT » March 6th, 2019, 1:54 pm

I am a big fan of both Deegan and Doris but just to be fair to Doris at the same age (just before his 21st birthday) Deegan had only started 2 games for Leinster. Maybe your expectations of Doris at his age are to high?

I think they are both playing so much because the vultures are circling and Leinster rate them both so highly they don't want to give up any free excuses for the IRFU to move one of them.

I hope we keep all our best young players at Leinster, don't care what weapon they use.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby arsebiscuits1 » March 6th, 2019, 2:51 pm

backrower8 wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Decent Deegan interview: https://www.the42.ie/max-deegan-leinste ... 8-Mar2019/


I am getting more and more perplexed by the way Doris is referenced in hushed tones by the media as if he is shooting the lights out.

I haven't seen enough of him to judge him categorically and I respect that he is rated by his employers as a real prospect in the Kieran Read style of 8, and I am watching him closely in a position that I played mostly myself, along with 7.

There was a flick of the invisible media switch during the summer to signal Doris was about to arrive and he keeps being referenced knowingly while doing nothing more than survive. I really have been waiting ever since for the big reveal but I haven't seen it yet.

For me he is doing no more than treading water, which is fair enough in your maiden season as a senior player at 20 (21 next month). He has not pushed Deegan out to 6 & 7 at all. What I see is that he has been accommodated in his favoured position as the new boy by Stucaster. In fact it has been an armchair/pampered ride with every single one of his 8 starts coming at 8 while Deegan has played 3 times in each of the 6, 7 & 8 positions in his 9 starts...or just 3 times in his preferred position.

I also think that Deegan's musical chairs expereince has been partly our of necessity as we have been very thin at 7 recently and he has dug us out of a hole, surprising himself and the rest of us in the process.

Yes he is a Swordsman, but I really think he is a special talent regardless and is one of 7 Swordsmen out of the mere 17 currently on the books that I would have an issue with losing to another club - along with Ryan, Molony, Leavy, Luke, Ross & ROL.


As for Doris,it would be nice to see what he can do at 6 in two of the remaining four regular PRO14 games.


I wonder how different this statement would be if Deegan went to Blackrock and Doris went to Michaels :lol:
He's gotten awfully fond of that brick
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby the spoofer » March 6th, 2019, 3:41 pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote:
backrower8 wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Decent Deegan interview: https://www.the42.ie/max-deegan-leinste ... 8-Mar2019/


I am getting more and more perplexed by the way Doris is referenced in hushed tones by the media as if he is shooting the lights out.

I haven't seen enough of him to judge him categorically and I respect that he is rated by his employers as a real prospect in the Kieran Read style of 8, and I am watching him closely in a position that I played mostly myself, along with 7.

There was a flick of the invisible media switch during the summer to signal Doris was about to arrive and he keeps being referenced knowingly while doing nothing more than survive. I really have been waiting ever since for the big reveal but I haven't seen it yet.

For me he is doing no more than treading water, which is fair enough in your maiden season as a senior player at 20 (21 next month). He has not pushed Deegan out to 6 & 7 at all. What I see is that he has been accommodated in his favoured position as the new boy by Stucaster. In fact it has been an armchair/pampered ride with every single one of his 8 starts coming at 8 while Deegan has played 3 times in each of the 6, 7 & 8 positions in his 9 starts...or just 3 times in his preferred position.

I also think that Deegan's musical chairs expereince has been partly our of necessity as we have been very thin at 7 recently and he has dug us out of a hole, surprising himself and the rest of us in the process.

Yes he is a Swordsman, but I really think he is a special talent regardless and is one of 7 Swordsmen out of the mere 17 currently on the books that I would have an issue with losing to another club - along with Ryan, Molony, Leavy, Luke, Ross & ROL.


As for Doris,it would be nice to see what he can do at 6 in two of the remaining four regular PRO14 games.


I wonder how different this statement would be if Deegan went to Blackrock and Doris went to Michaels :lol:


I went to neither and for once I can agree with BR8. Deegan is a class act, a real thinking player. He will end up with 60+ caps for Ireland. Doris has huge potential but he is not as much of a footballer as Deegan. Deegan is to Jamie what Doris is to Stander if you will.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby leinster23 » March 6th, 2019, 9:26 pm

I've got to agree regarding Doris and Deegan. Deegan is a potential superstar (in Irish rugby terms). Doris will probably be very very good as well, but his performances have been nothing exceptional this season, which is fair enough considering his age. Losing Deegan would be ridiculous especially given that there isn't another province where he'd be any better off, they're all well stacked at 8.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby mildlyinterested » March 6th, 2019, 9:33 pm

Doris/Deegan - 6/8 combo makes too much sense, so much so it probably will never happen consistently :lol:
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby ronk » March 6th, 2019, 10:41 pm

the spoofer wrote:
I wonder how different this statement would be if Deegan went to Blackrock and Doris went to Michaels :lol:


I went to neither and for once I can agree with BR8. Deegan is a class act, a real thinking player. He will end up with 60+ caps for Ireland. Doris has huge potential but he is not as much of a footballer as Deegan. Deegan is to Jamie what Doris is to Stander if you will.[/quote]

It was a long time ago but my recollection of Jamie from the days before he was getting caps are nothing like the way Deegan plays.

It's not as simple as Heaslip steps or passes; Stander goes through and there'll be a lot of confusion and disappointment if we expect the same from Deegan or Doris.
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Re: Leinster's Backrow Options

Postby hugonaut » March 7th, 2019, 12:07 am

backrower8 wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Decent Deegan interview: https://www.the42.ie/max-deegan-leinste ... 8-Mar2019/


As for Doris,it would be nice to see what he can do at 6 in two of the remaining four regular PRO14 games.


I agree. I'd like to see Doris at No6 and Deegan at No8 for at least a couple of games this season. It surprises me that they haven't looked to do it at least once.

Deegan gave an interview recently [post-Cheetahs] where he spoke very well – [source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlO-NjHmMCk ]. To summarise, he said that he felt the second half of the season was going better than the first, and that he was happy enough to play anywhere across the backrow once he was playing.

Doris is a really big talent as well though. Just getting as much gametime as he is this season shows that he is really rated by Cullen and Lancaster, and they get to see a lot more than we do. He has also shown that he is capable of getting over the gainline in the league - he averages just about 3m/carry, which is third amongst all forwards with double-figure carries [Vahk Abdeladze is an outlier with 7.4m/carry off 7 carries].

He has also gone 80 mins in the last four games in a row, which is good going for a 20-year old. Durability looks good. I don't expect to see a 20 year old crushing it as a No8 in a pro league, so my expectations are a little bit lower than some, maybe. When Akira Ioane couldn't do it for the Blues the season after annihilating everyone in the 2015 JWC I recalibrated my expectations!

It's a winter league after all, and while there are fewer than there used to be [the likes of Filo Tiatia, Joe Bearman, Eric Rush, Al Strokosch, Josh Strauss have all gone to various different sin bins across the world] there are still some really hard b*stards out there in various backrows across the league, veterans who are of a mind to put the hurt on high-falutin' kids.

I watched Munster vs the Scarlets for my sins, and I got a kick from seeing that Scarlets No8 Uzair Casseim – a guy I had never heard of – absolutely leathering everybody. Everybody. He's not a big guy for a No8, but he's a seriously tough dude. It's a big step up from being the best in your age-grade to playing against these sort of characters, and if Doris isn't blowing the doors off, he's holding his own.

If push came to shove though, I would rather see Deegan at No8 and Doris at No6, both short and long term.
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