Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby cormac » March 2nd, 2019, 12:36 am

How was that assault on McFadden not a red card?
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby desperado » March 2nd, 2019, 12:43 am

Nigel and his ARs matched the conditions tonight - awful. Offside seemingly is now optional, the hits on McFadden and Locko didn't get the level of sanction that was appropriate, missed forward passes (flat to me!), offside pickup at ruck amongst the most glaring. His standards really have slipped and they need to stop calling those silent men patrolling the lines ARs, their assistance is virtually non existent.
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby matt » March 2nd, 2019, 1:07 am

Laighin Break wrote:Deegan having a good game. Some very nice runs and what a hit!


Is Deegan making a late run for World Cup
Squad?
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 2nd, 2019, 9:16 am

matt wrote:
Laighin Break wrote:Deegan having a good game. Some very nice runs and what a hit!


Is Deegan making a late run for World Cup
Squad?


Possibly, in 2023.
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 2nd, 2019, 9:33 am

That was a game which demonstrated that 'gym power' does not equate to old-fashioned brute strength. Franco Smith is a decent Coach but this Cheetahs team doesn't play with the ambition that its skills and power warrant.

Cheetahs have power, height and fitness up front and blinding pace out wide. In the middle, they have a decent scrum-half and a competent mid-field. They could be challenging for a top three spot or higher, but they play without any sense of trying to beat opponents.

For Leinster, this was a lesson that cohesion and attention to detail in passing and clearing-out is vital to executing a game-plan based on skill and pace. Our passing was really sloppy. Kearney, given an almost constant supply of kicks, covered the pitch well and carried forward with pace and intent, but never linked with the rest of his team or with his wingers.

Our scrum was under pressure until Treacy, Byrne and Porter arrived and our maul commenced well but usually ended up in a mess without real, go-forward, quality possession.

Sure the weather was sloppy and, after three dry weeks, unusual. But it could be like this at the end of March.

This wasn't the team that will take us into a European Quarter Final, but it was a team full of ambitious young men. Some of them need to look at this game and put some real practice into their basics.
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby Oldschool » March 2nd, 2019, 9:43 am

Didn't see the game but do the coaches need to get a grip on the squad again.
Our new backs coach might, for example, be a bit too laissez-faire in his approach for example which might explain an increase in intercept passes. On the other hand it might be argued that after a few dodgy passes the lesson of discernment will have been learned.
In summary we would seem to have lost some of our structure and cohesion which is not down to one coach but down to the coaching team as a whole.
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby artaneboy » March 2nd, 2019, 9:53 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:That was a game which demonstrated that 'gym power' does not equate to old-fashioned brute strength. Franco Smith is a decent Coach but this Cheetahs team doesn't play with the ambition that its skills and power demonstrate.

Cheetahs have power, height and fitness up front and blinding pace out wide. In the middle, they have a decent scrum-half and a competent mid-field. They could be challenging for a top three spot or higher, but they play without sense of trying to beat opponents.

For Leinster, this was a lesson that cohesion and attention to detail in passing and clearing-out is vital to executing a game based on skill and pace. Our passing was really sloppy. Kearney covered the pitch well and carried forward with pace and intent, but never linked with the rest of his team or with his wingers.

Our scrum was under pressure until Treacy, Byrne and Porter arrived and our maul commenced well but usually ended up in a mess without real, go-forward, quality possession.

Sure the weather was sloppy and, after three dry weeks, unusual. But it could be like this at the end of March.

This wasn't the team that will take us into a European Quarter Final, but it was a team full of ambitious young men. Some of them need to look at this game and put some real practice into their basics.


Yeah- all basically correct. But it was yet another scratch team, the weather was terrible and Cheetahs were game. Hard to be too critical.

Nigel let a lot go. The decisions on tackles on Fergus and Rory I can understand in context. But Fergus’s was a red- and Rory’s a yellow. I still think he is a very good ref and has a feel for the game, but there were really annoying errors.

Offside and offside particularly. Jaysus with defensive lines often yards ahead of the line- are refs in general just giving up on this essential law of the sport? In the last month the maul last months has seen another “tactic” emerge from defending sides supposedly swimming around the side and making a complete mess of it. It happened in the first internationals and is now occurring in the club game. What gives???



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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby the spoofer » March 2nd, 2019, 10:20 am

artaneboy wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:That was a game which demonstrated that 'gym power' does not equate to old-fashioned brute strength. Franco Smith is a decent Coach but this Cheetahs team doesn't play with the ambition that its skills and power demonstrate.

Cheetahs have power, height and fitness up front and blinding pace out wide. In the middle, they have a decent scrum-half and a competent mid-field. They could be challenging for a top three spot or higher, but they play without sense of trying to beat opponents.

For Leinster, this was a lesson that cohesion and attention to detail in passing and clearing-out is vital to executing a game based on skill and pace. Our passing was really sloppy. Kearney covered the pitch well and carried forward with pace and intent, but never linked with the rest of his team or with his wingers.

Our scrum was under pressure until Treacy, Byrne and Porter arrived and our maul commenced well but usually ended up in a mess without real, go-forward, quality possession.

Sure the weather was sloppy and, after three dry weeks, unusual. But it could be like this at the end of March.

This wasn't the team that will take us into a European Quarter Final, but it was a team full of ambitious young men. Some of them need to look at this game and put some real practice into their basics.


Yeah- all basically correct. But it was yet another scratch team, the weather was terrible and Cheetahs were game. Hard to be too critical.

Nigel let a lot go. The decisions on tackles on Fergus and Rory I can understand in context. But Fergus’s was a red- and Rory’s a yellow. I still think he is a very good ref and has a feel for the game, but there were really annoying errors.

Offside and offside particularly. Jaysus with defensive lines often yards ahead of the line- are refs in general just giving up on this essential law of the sport? In the last month the maul last months has seen another “tactic” emerge from defending sides supposedly swimming around the side and making a complete mess of it. It happened in the first internationals and is now occurring in the club game. What gives???



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I think Nigel is an awful ref who thinks his laws are better than those set down by World Rugby.
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby D4surfer » March 2nd, 2019, 10:37 am

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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby artaneboy » March 2nd, 2019, 10:40 am

the spoofer wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:That was a game which demonstrated that 'gym power' does not equate to old-fashioned brute strength. Franco Smith is a decent Coach but this Cheetahs team doesn't play with the ambition that its skills and power demonstrate.

Cheetahs have power, height and fitness up front and blinding pace out wide. In the middle, they have a decent scrum-half and a competent mid-field. They could be challenging for a top three spot or higher, but they play without sense of trying to beat opponents.

For Leinster, this was a lesson that cohesion and attention to detail in passing and clearing-out is vital to executing a game based on skill and pace. Our passing was really sloppy. Kearney covered the pitch well and carried forward with pace and intent, but never linked with the rest of his team or with his wingers.

Our scrum was under pressure until Treacy, Byrne and Porter arrived and our maul commenced well but usually ended up in a mess without real, go-forward, quality possession.

Sure the weather was sloppy and, after three dry weeks, unusual. But it could be like this at the end of March.

This wasn't the team that will take us into a European Quarter Final, but it was a team full of ambitious young men. Some of them need to look at this game and put some real practice into their basics.


Yeah- all basically correct. But it was yet another scratch team, the weather was terrible and Cheetahs were game. Hard to be too critical.

Nigel let a lot go. The decisions on tackles on Fergus and Rory I can understand in context. But Fergus’s was a red- and Rory’s a yellow. I still think he is a very good ref and has a feel for the game, but there were really annoying errors.

Offside and offside particularly. Jaysus with defensive lines often yards ahead of the line- are refs in general just giving up on this essential law of the sport? In the last month the maul last months has seen another “tactic” emerge from defending sides supposedly swimming around the side and making a complete mess of it. It happened in the first internationals and is now occurring in the club game. What gives???



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I think Nigel is an awful ref who thinks his laws are better than those set down by World Rugby.


Well, he could be right on some of them! The referees collectively seem not to want to police offside. Did I mention that already...?

Anyway you’ll find a claque to condemn almost all the referees. I’m a member of several of those mobs. Finding one that we agree is good is more difficult.

Who’s least terrible? Mitrea, Nigel, Lacy,...


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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby Oldschool » March 2nd, 2019, 10:45 am

artaneboy wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:That was a game which demonstrated that 'gym power' does not equate to old-fashioned brute strength. Franco Smith is a decent Coach but this Cheetahs team doesn't play with the ambition that its skills and power demonstrate.

Cheetahs have power, height and fitness up front and blinding pace out wide. In the middle, they have a decent scrum-half and a competent mid-field. They could be challenging for a top three spot or higher, but they play without sense of trying to beat opponents.

For Leinster, this was a lesson that cohesion and attention to detail in passing and clearing-out is vital to executing a game based on skill and pace. Our passing was really sloppy. Kearney covered the pitch well and carried forward with pace and intent, but never linked with the rest of his team or with his wingers.

Our scrum was under pressure until Treacy, Byrne and Porter arrived and our maul commenced well but usually ended up in a mess without real, go-forward, quality possession.

Sure the weather was sloppy and, after three dry weeks, unusual. But it could be like this at the end of March.

This wasn't the team that will take us into a European Quarter Final, but it was a team full of ambitious young men. Some of them need to look at this game and put some real practice into their basics.


Yeah- all basically correct. But it was yet another scratch team, the weather was terrible and Cheetahs were game. Hard to be too critical.

Nigel let a lot go. The decisions on tackles on Fergus and Rory I can understand in context. But Fergus’s was a red- and Rory’s a yellow. I still think he is a very good ref and has a feel for the game, but there were really annoying errors.

Offside and offside particularly. Jaysus with defensive lines often yards ahead of the line- are refs in general just giving up on this essential law of the sport? In the last month the maul last months has seen another “tactic” emerge from defending sides supposedly swimming around the side and making a complete mess of it. It happened in the first internationals and is now occurring in the club game. What gives???



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Wales used the pick and go quite a bit against England.
It wasn't just to counter their kicking game.
It is one of the ways of keeping defences on side.
Keeping defences honest is an issue that teams have to address if referees aren't.
Pick and go isn't the only option.
A good kicking game.
A sniping SH.
OH lying deep from time to time - basically the tactic that William the Conqueror used at the battle of Hastings. (George Hook would like that one)
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby artaneboy » March 2nd, 2019, 10:50 am

Oldschool wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:That was a game which demonstrated that 'gym power' does not equate to old-fashioned brute strength. Franco Smith is a decent Coach but this Cheetahs team doesn't play with the ambition that its skills and power demonstrate.

Cheetahs have power, height and fitness up front and blinding pace out wide. In the middle, they have a decent scrum-half and a competent mid-field. They could be challenging for a top three spot or higher, but they play without sense of trying to beat opponents.

For Leinster, this was a lesson that cohesion and attention to detail in passing and clearing-out is vital to executing a game based on skill and pace. Our passing was really sloppy. Kearney covered the pitch well and carried forward with pace and intent, but never linked with the rest of his team or with his wingers.

Our scrum was under pressure until Treacy, Byrne and Porter arrived and our maul commenced well but usually ended up in a mess without real, go-forward, quality possession.

Sure the weather was sloppy and, after three dry weeks, unusual. But it could be like this at the end of March.

This wasn't the team that will take us into a European Quarter Final, but it was a team full of ambitious young men. Some of them need to look at this game and put some real practice into their basics.


Yeah- all basically correct. But it was yet another scratch team, the weather was terrible and Cheetahs were game. Hard to be too critical.

Nigel let a lot go. The decisions on tackles on Fergus and Rory I can understand in context. But Fergus’s was a red- and Rory’s a yellow. I still think he is a very good ref and has a feel for the game, but there were really annoying errors.

Offside and offside particularly. Jaysus with defensive lines often yards ahead of the line- are refs in general just giving up on this essential law of the sport? In the last month the maul last months has seen another “tactic” emerge from defending sides supposedly swimming around the side and making a complete mess of it. It happened in the first internationals and is now occurring in the club game. What gives???



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Wales used the pick and go quite a bit against England.
It wasn't just to counter their kicking game.
It is one of the ways of keeping defences on side.
Keeping defences honest is an issue that teams have to address if referees aren't.
Pick and go isn't the only option.
A good kicking game.
A sniping SH.
OH lying deep from time to time - basically the tactic that William the Conqueror used at the battle of Hastings. (George Hook would like that one)


George Hook is more like Harold at the end of that battle: one-eyed!


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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby wixfjord » March 2nd, 2019, 11:45 am

ROL's try was a beauty. Almost BOD esque.

The move we used to get Byrne 1 on 1 for his try was great too. Poor defence from Cheetahs but using COB as a decoy and giving Byrne space was good. Adam has really improved this year. I'd be starting him in the Aviva.

Another really impressive game from COB too. He looks like he can definitely do a job at a higher level too.
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby Blueberry » March 2nd, 2019, 1:10 pm

ROL try up there for try of the season, incredible skill from him. If it had been BOD we would all be going on and on about it !! COB continues to develop, Deegan excellent and good to see Ruddock back, horrible conditions and solid result all things considered. Nigel ignored offside all night, Cheetahs taking the mick totally by the end, bizarre. Yellow for their prop should have been red, that type of nonsense has to be red.

Thought Kearney and company did a great job of fielding high kicks all night in the lashing rain.
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 2nd, 2019, 1:35 pm

Yeah ROL's try was phenomenal, pity he did it in a game that nobody cared about because it really does deserve to be remembered. Thought he had anther good game, his pass for Adam's try was very nice too. COB excellent again, obviously the flashy stuff was good but I've been saying recently that he needs to work harder to get back in the line and also be more animated in general, and aside from a lazy chase back for their try I thought he did that.

Deegan was really impressive. I really don't see him as a 6 because as a 6 you play with your head down, and at 8 you play with your head up, which suits him down to a tee. Would never have thought that he could bring his skills to playing 7 but he did last night and maybe there's potential for him to be an option there going forward. I can't work out if the coaches saw potential for that happening or if it's just been because of the circumstance we find ourselves in but it's a positive for all concerned. I'm not suggesting he moves there, but he provides a good option now.

Not saying he had a bad game but have a feeling we promoted Doris a bit too soon. He looks underpowered to me and reckon that a longer summer break with more conditioning and a slower introduction to the first team around now may have suited him better.

Owens is a disgrace at this stage, there's no other word for his decision not issue a red last night. He has always had his own slant on the laws and initially that's what made him a great ref. He would allow people to contest rucks if they had got their first even if they weren't completely legal after that, and he'd let attacking teams enter from offside positions as long as it wasn't too blatant. He was consistent in how he managed it, you knew what you were getting and it generally made for a great game. Now he seems to decide what to do based on what vibe the game and the crowd are giving off.
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby ronk » March 4th, 2019, 7:22 am

They were both red cards under the new laws, the first was under the old too. Jumping into the collision made it worse.

Really impressed with all the finishes, obviously ROL had the most to do. COB isolated the 10 in a set hard line and caught the defense out by pulling down the ball. That's much harder than it looks, and to them dominate the collision shows the footwork.

We're used to the way Byrne consistently beats defenders with the same move but again that was well executed in so little space. Made defender look poor.
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby mildlyinterested » March 4th, 2019, 8:57 am

50 caps for Adam Byrne.
175 caps for Ferg.

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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby mildlyinterested » March 4th, 2019, 11:18 am

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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby Flash Gordon » March 4th, 2019, 11:36 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:That was a game which demonstrated that 'gym power' does not equate to old-fashioned brute strength. Franco Smith is a decent Coach but this Cheetahs team doesn't play with the ambition that its skills and power warrant.

Cheetahs have power, height and fitness up front and blinding pace out wide. In the middle, they have a decent scrum-half and a competent mid-field. They could be challenging for a top three spot or higher, but they play without any sense of trying to beat opponents.

For Leinster, this was a lesson that cohesion and attention to detail in passing and clearing-out is vital to executing a game-plan based on skill and pace. Our passing was really sloppy. Kearney, given an almost constant supply of kicks, covered the pitch well and carried forward with pace and intent, but never linked with the rest of his team or with his wingers.

Our scrum was under pressure until Treacy, Byrne and Porter arrived and our maul commenced well but usually ended up in a mess without real, go-forward, quality possession.

Sure the weather was sloppy and, after three dry weeks, unusual. But it could be like this at the end of March.

This wasn't the team that will take us into a European Quarter Final, but it was a team full of ambitious young men. Some of them need to look at this game and put some real practice into their basics.


I thought the Chetahs were tactically inept and played with fear rather than ambition. When they had ball in hand they looked half decent. They smashed us over the gain line repeatedly and had real pace out wide. However, they seemed content to endlessly and aimlessly boot the ball back to us. A bit more self belief and ball retention and they would have won that game.

I also thought we got done at the breakdown - we conceeded 18 turnovers......Nigel was awful, the hit on Ferg was a straight red no question and the offside line was basically abandoned which really squeezed us. On the plus side I thjought we gave away a couple of scrum penalties which he didn't give.

Have to say that I thought Dave Kearney was absolutely outstanding. He's looking very sharp and dangerous.
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Re: Leinster v Cheetahs Friday 1st March 7.35pm KO

Postby wixfjord » March 4th, 2019, 11:40 am

He did really well, and he did a very passable impression of his brother in terms of positioning and fielding too. Nice to have the option of him and Daly at 15, and it should also increase both of their playing minutes.

On the other side I thought he could’ve done a bit more to bring the guys outside him. I know it was a wet night but there were a few times he hit the line with two men outside and probably could’ve passed.

He’s in fine form though which is great to see.

There’s huge competition for the wing spots against Ulster now. Particularly if we don’t go with Lowe.
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