The Nugget

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Re: The Nugget

Postby Jackie Brown » March 6th, 2019, 7:57 pm

Sean Cronin is a fantastic winger.

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Re: The Nugget

Postby ronk » March 6th, 2019, 9:30 pm

Logorrhea wrote:Disappointed for him but if Joe thinks its the right call, then its the right call.

Cant just get offended when its one of our own.


That's what worries me. Cronin has been consistently picked over years but behind Best.

He finally gets a shot in a 6N match and is then dropped fully out of the extended squad immediately. This is not common and it's rare for Joe.

It adds to the sense of doom. Irish teams have a long and proud tradition of flaking out at World Cups (but not all of them).
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Re: The Nugget

Postby Oldschool » March 6th, 2019, 9:57 pm

ronk wrote:
Logorrhea wrote:Disappointed for him but if Joe thinks its the right call, then its the right call.

Cant just get offended when its one of our own.


That's what worries me. Cronin has been consistently picked over years but behind Best.

He finally gets a shot in a 6N match and is then dropped fully out of the extended squad immediately. This is not common and it's rare for Joe.

It adds to the sense of doom. Irish teams have a long and proud tradition of flaking out at World Cups (but not all of them).

A lot of the flaking out was due to the coaches flaking.
Kidney with his Rog and Murray selection
EOS and Kidney with the lack of squad building and rotation.
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Re: The Nugget

Postby ronk » March 6th, 2019, 10:43 pm

I'm not any less worried. Not one little bit.
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Re: The Nugget

Postby Hornet » March 6th, 2019, 11:05 pm

bails wrote:
footrush wrote:
bails wrote:Thought it a bit hard and unfair to drop Sean Cronin from the Ireland Squad of 37 this morning.

He looks as if he is being made fall guy for some of the failings in Rome.
While we are pre World Cup and an element of experimentation is taking place around the squad, it appears that he has gone from starting an International to 4th cab on the rank.

Agreed 3 lineouts went astray whilst he on the pitch in the first half, but lets look a little deeper around the overall failings.

- the fella has been playing out of his skin this season for Leinster, and would certainly be well up there in nominations for our player of the season.
- The Leinster line out has functioned very well with Nugget at hooker this season - credit to a well oiled, confident group with experienced combinations.
- 2 lineouts went astray in the second half when a replacement was on the pitch
- the line outs were being called by an inexperienced member of the pack, who by his own admission was calling line outs for the second time in his career.
- The inexperience and and lack of cohesion amongst those involved does not lend itself to a smooth operation, yet neither of the other two players appears to have been scape goated in this manner.

Aside from the line out, all scrums were won comfortably when The Nugget was on the pitch, when replacements came on we were penalised at scrum on one occasion in the second half, whilst we were going backwards.
Again, none of these players appear to have been left out of a 37 man squad.
Other players handling, ball skills and discipline were very poor on the day. One noted British and Irish Lion dropped the ball twice, fired a dreadful pass off a line out and conceeded two needless penalties that cost us points. Another passed lethargically, was pickpocked at the base of the ruck twice and knocked on a catchable ball whilst we were in the red zone.
Yet neither has been left out of the squad.

Are the Irish management saying that Sean Cronin is not worthy of a place in a 37 man squad for a crucial international on Sunday, where one of those picked ahead of him is a 36 year old man, another cannot command a first team place at an Irish Province, and the other's performance minute by minute in the last international, was no better or worse than Cronin's.

Time we stood up for one of our own !
He is an absolute vital cog in our Leinster. Rumours around a move to the plastic cesspit in St Albans continue to abound, and the potential and unjust end of his international career in this manner could see him walk, which will harm Leinster significantly.

“ plastic cess pit in St Albans “ , sheer genius Bails !.


and I have not even mentioned the pitch yet !


Why would Cronin sign for Old Albanian RFC?
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Re: The Nugget

Postby hugonaut » March 6th, 2019, 11:13 pm

neiliog93 wrote:Ireland have had two hookers in the professional era who were reliable throwers 95%+ of the time: Shane Byrne and Jerry Flannery. Keith Wood had his wobbles, Best is usually ok but sometimes misfires, Jackman (for Ireland) was a disaster, Sheahan was dodgy....we just don't produce people who can consistently throw the ball in straight and accurately.


Dave Fanning wrote a good article on this recently, quoting Paul O'Connell:

'Paul O'Connell was tuned in to the misfiring weapon that was Ireland's lineout in Rome. "You can go out one day and lose six out of 18 lineouts," he says. "Two might be down to the hooker getting the throw wrong; two might be down to lads missing a lift; two might be down to bad calls. But the hooker gets the blame for what everyone sees as an awful day at the lineout when in fact he might have thrown two bad balls out of a total of 18, which is not that bad at all when you think about it."'

[source: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 72137.html ]

A good few people said before the game that Cro was being set up to fail/put in a less than optimum position. We were missing our top four second rows [Ryan, Toner, Henderson and Beirne], and it was a half-strength pack - no Healy, loads of second rows out, no Leavy or Stander in the backrow. Beyond that, when Scannell came on, we lost two throws from six or seven in 25 minutes. If you're a Cro fan, there's ample evidence to back up any feeling that he has been scapegoated.

Against that, Cro had an opportunity and didn't make the most of it. I don't think that he has been well-managed by Schmidt, but if he didn't get the chance to start against Italy, would that have been better or worse management?
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Re: The Nugget

Postby FLIP » March 6th, 2019, 11:17 pm

Hornet wrote:[Why would Cronin sign for Old Albanian RFC?


To be fair to Old Albanians, they have a nice clubhouse and pitches.
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Re: The Nugget

Postby Oldschool » March 7th, 2019, 7:09 am

ronk wrote:I'm not any less worried. Not one little bit.

I did my best.
Joe and the rest of us need to realise that if we are capable of winning the world cup then we can do it without Sexton and Murray.
Joe needd to prepare accordingly.
That's on the hand.
On the other hand his selection of Henshaw at FB was a recognition that if RK gets injured then we are fooked.
Keep looking Joe.
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Re: The Nugget

Postby ronk » March 7th, 2019, 7:28 am

England aren't the same without the Vuniploas. We have good stand ins, as do they but it's not the same.

It's too late to do much about it now. For outhalf Jackson and Madigan are losses.

The timing of trying Henshaw at 15.
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Re: The Nugget

Postby Oldschool » March 7th, 2019, 7:40 am

hugonaut wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:Ireland have had two hookers in the professional era who were reliable throwers 95%+ of the time: Shane Byrne and Jerry Flannery. Keith Wood had his wobbles, Best is usually ok but sometimes misfires, Jackman (for Ireland) was a disaster, Sheahan was dodgy....we just don't produce people who can consistently throw the ball in straight and accurately.


Dave Fanning wrote a good article on this recently, quoting Paul O'Connell:

'Paul O'Connell was tuned in to the misfiring weapon that was Ireland's lineout in Rome. "You can go out one day and lose six out of 18 lineouts," he says. "Two might be down to the hooker getting the throw wrong; two might be down to lads missing a lift; two might be down to bad calls. But the hooker gets the blame for what everyone sees as an awful day at the lineout when in fact he might have thrown two bad balls out of a total of 18, which is not that bad at all when you think about it."'

[source: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 72137.html ]

A good few people said before the game that Cro was being set up to fail/put in a less than optimum position. We were missing our top four second rows [Ryan, Toner, Henderson and Beirne], and it was a half-strength pack - no Healy, loads of second rows out, no Leavy or Stander in the backrow. Beyond that, when Scannell came on, we lost two throws from six or seven in 25 minutes. If you're a Cro fan, there's ample evidence to back up any feeling that he has been scapegoated.

Against that, Cro had an opportunity and didn't make the most of it. I don't think that he has been well-managed by Schmidt, but if he didn't get the chance to start against Italy, would that have been better or worse management?

Bottom line on Cronin.
We don't have established depth in the hooker position and until that changes Joe and Ireland need him.
And he's not exactly muck either.
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Re: The Nugget

Postby footrush » March 7th, 2019, 4:34 pm

bails wrote:
footrush wrote:
bails wrote:Thought it a bit hard and unfair to drop Sean Cronin from the Ireland Squad of 37 this morning.

He looks as if he is being made fall guy for some of the failings in Rome.
While we are pre World Cup and an element of experimentation is taking place around the squad, it appears that he has gone from starting an International to 4th cab on the rank.

Agreed 3 lineouts went astray whilst he on the pitch in the first half, but lets look a little deeper around the overall failings.

- the fella has been playing out of his skin this season for Leinster, and would certainly be well up there in nominations for our player of the season.
- The Leinster line out has functioned very well with Nugget at hooker this season - credit to a well oiled, confident group with experienced combinations.
- 2 lineouts went astray in the second half when a replacement was on the pitch
- the line outs were being called by an inexperienced member of the pack, who by his own admission was calling line outs for the second time in his career.
- The inexperience and and lack of cohesion amongst those involved does not lend itself to a smooth operation, yet neither of the other two players appears to have been scape goated in this manner.

Aside from the line out, all scrums were won comfortably when The Nugget was on the pitch, when replacements came on we were penalised at scrum on one occasion in the second half, whilst we were going backwards.
Again, none of these players appear to have been left out of a 37 man squad.
Other players handling, ball skills and discipline were very poor on the day. One noted British and Irish Lion dropped the ball twice, fired a dreadful pass off a line out and conceeded two needless penalties that cost us points. Another passed lethargically, was pickpocked at the base of the ruck twice and knocked on a catchable ball whilst we were in the red zone.
Yet neither has been left out of the squad.

Are the Irish management saying that Sean Cronin is not worthy of a place in a 37 man squad for a crucial international on Sunday, where one of those picked ahead of him is a 36 year old man, another cannot command a first team place at an Irish Province, and the other's performance minute by minute in the last international, was no better or worse than Cronin's.

Time we stood up for one of our own !
He is an absolute vital cog in our Leinster. Rumours around a move to the plastic cesspit in St Albans continue to abound, and the potential and unjust end of his international career in this manner could see him walk, which will harm Leinster significantly.

“ plastic cess pit in St Albans “ , sheer genius Bails !.


and I have not even mentioned the pitch yet !
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Re: The Nugget

Postby bails » March 11th, 2019, 2:10 pm

A number of line outs lost yesterday, including over throws and missed timings
Do Best and Scannell feel under pressure that they might dissappear from the 23, as poor old Nugget did the previous week.

For all the talk of the need for strong scrummagers, the Munster Front Row did themselves no favours in the final quarter yesterday.
To lose one against the head against a 7 man scrum was inexcusable.
Kilkoyne scrummages with his backside facing the touchline - if the referee stands on that side of the scrum he generally gets penalised. This has happenend for years and he doesn't appear to have learnt or changed it.
Scannell is not a top drawer scrummager, in one scrum he couldn't strike the ball, which we lost and in another he was penalised for popping up under pressure. John Ryan again struggled. Like the previous week, we gave penalties away when the scrum went backwards, when Ryan was the cornerstone at tighthead.

We have seen enough of these 3, time for Jack, Nugget and Porter to reclaim their rightful places in the 23. !
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Re: The Nugget

Postby riocard911 » March 11th, 2019, 2:26 pm

bails wrote:A number of line outs lost yesterday, including over throws and missed timings
Do Best and Scannell feel under pressure that they might dissappear from the 23, as poor old Nugget did the previous week.

For all the talk of the need for strong scrummagers, the Munster Front Row did themselves no favours in the final quarter yesterday.
To lose one against the head against a 7 man scrum was inexcusable.
Kilkoyne scrummages with his backside facing the touchline - if the referee stands on that side of the scrum he generally gets penalised. This has happenend for years and he doesn't appear to have learnt or changed it.
Scannell is not a top drawer scrummager, in one scrum he couldn't strike the ball, which we lost and in another he was penalised for popping up under pressure. John Ryan again struggled. Like the previous week, we gave penalties away when the scrum went backwards, when Ryan was the cornerstone at tighthead.

We have seen enough of these 3, time for Jack, Nugget and Porter to reclaim their rightful places in the 23. !


+1. All the same, as a former hooker, I was delighted to see Guirado get a strike against the head. Can't remember the last time I saw one of them in a Test match!!!!
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Re: The Nugget

Postby Gearzbox2 » March 11th, 2019, 4:48 pm

bails wrote:A number of line outs lost yesterday, including over throws and missed timings
Do Best and Scannell feel under pressure that they might dissappear from the 23, as poor old Nugget did the previous week.

For all the talk of the need for strong scrummagers, the Munster Front Row did themselves no favours in the final quarter yesterday.
To lose one against the head against a 7 man scrum was inexcusable.
Kilkoyne scrummages with his backside facing the touchline - if the referee stands on that side of the scrum he generally gets penalised. This has happenend for years and he doesn't appear to have learnt or changed it.
Scannell is not a top drawer scrummager, in one scrum he couldn't strike the ball, which we lost and in another he was penalised for popping up under pressure. John Ryan again struggled. Like the previous week, we gave penalties away when the scrum went backwards, when Ryan was the cornerstone at tighthead.

We have seen enough of these 3, time for Jack, Nugget and Porter to reclaim their rightful places in the 23. !


You just have to laugh at nuggets situation at this stage
Best overthrew one and underthrew another but no issue made, made 6 tackles and missed 3 and had 3 carries according to the stats which I know aren’t always reliable but does he fall on the same sword...answer is no, fine he’s captain fantastic so we’ll move on to Scannell

Scannell got popped once and lost a strike against the head, pretty anonymous for his cameo of 25 mins too but again will he fall on the Schmidt sword, answer is no
I’m glad nugget is back in Leinster probably foaming at the mouth to get back at it with us
He’s been up there for our POTY so far and I’m hoping he bounces back
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Re: The Nugget

Postby Edna Kenny » March 11th, 2019, 5:57 pm

Gearzbox2 wrote:
bails wrote:A number of line outs lost yesterday, including over throws and missed timings
Do Best and Scannell feel under pressure that they might dissappear from the 23, as poor old Nugget did the previous week.

For all the talk of the need for strong scrummagers, the Munster Front Row did themselves no favours in the final quarter yesterday.
To lose one against the head against a 7 man scrum was inexcusable.
Kilkoyne scrummages with his backside facing the touchline - if the referee stands on that side of the scrum he generally gets penalised. This has happenend for years and he doesn't appear to have learnt or changed it.
Scannell is not a top drawer scrummager, in one scrum he couldn't strike the ball, which we lost and in another he was penalised for popping up under pressure. John Ryan again struggled. Like the previous week, we gave penalties away when the scrum went backwards, when Ryan was the cornerstone at tighthead.

We have seen enough of these 3, time for Jack, Nugget and Porter to reclaim their rightful places in the 23. !


You just have to laugh at nuggets situation at this stage
Best overthrew one and underthrew another but no issue made, made 6 tackles and missed 3 and had 3 carries according to the stats which I know aren’t always reliable but does he fall on the same sword...answer is no, fine he’s captain fantastic so we’ll move on to Scannell

Scannell got popped once and lost a strike against the head, pretty anonymous for his cameo of 25 mins too but again will he fall on the Schmidt sword, answer is no
I’m glad nugget is back in Leinster probably foaming at the mouth to get back at it with us
He’s been up there for our POTY so far and I’m hoping he bounces back


Schmidt name checked Cronin and Herring as coming back into the squad this week so I don't think Scannell's place is guaranteed. I think errors are picked up on more in the context of when they happen. Losing a scrum against the head when you're up by a bonus point, and no one really says anything. Just like the two tries we leaked are excused. If we were behind against France and we'd lost that scrum it would have been bigger news.
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Re: The Nugget

Postby riocard911 » March 11th, 2019, 7:34 pm

Still and all, the strike against the head let them off the hook after they'd conceded numerous penos at the scrum and we were just about to get a penalty try, which would have made the score 33-0. Shortly after the try penalty at the halfway line led directly to a try for the opposition. Joe and Greg Feek will have been fuming, I reckon.
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Re: The Nugget

Postby leinster23 » March 11th, 2019, 10:45 pm

Edna Kenny wrote:
Gearzbox2 wrote:
bails wrote:A number of line outs lost yesterday, including over throws and missed timings
Do Best and Scannell feel under pressure that they might dissappear from the 23, as poor old Nugget did the previous week.

For all the talk of the need for strong scrummagers, the Munster Front Row did themselves no favours in the final quarter yesterday.
To lose one against the head against a 7 man scrum was inexcusable.
Kilkoyne scrummages with his backside facing the touchline - if the referee stands on that side of the scrum he generally gets penalised. This has happenend for years and he doesn't appear to have learnt or changed it.
Scannell is not a top drawer scrummager, in one scrum he couldn't strike the ball, which we lost and in another he was penalised for popping up under pressure. John Ryan again struggled. Like the previous week, we gave penalties away when the scrum went backwards, when Ryan was the cornerstone at tighthead.

We have seen enough of these 3, time for Jack, Nugget and Porter to reclaim their rightful places in the 23. !


You just have to laugh at nuggets situation at this stage
Best overthrew one and underthrew another but no issue made, made 6 tackles and missed 3 and had 3 carries according to the stats which I know aren’t always reliable but does he fall on the same sword...answer is no, fine he’s captain fantastic so we’ll move on to Scannell

Scannell got popped once and lost a strike against the head, pretty anonymous for his cameo of 25 mins too but again will he fall on the Schmidt sword, answer is no
I’m glad nugget is back in Leinster probably foaming at the mouth to get back at it with us
He’s been up there for our POTY so far and I’m hoping he bounces back


Schmidt name checked Cronin and Herring as coming back into the squad this week so I don't think Scannell's place is guaranteed. I think errors are picked up on more in the context of when they happen. Losing a scrum against the head when you're up by a bonus point, and no one really says anything. Just like the two tries we leaked are excused. If we were behind against France and we'd lost that scrum it would have been bigger news.

Doesn't come up in the media, no, but Schmidt and Co definitely pick up on things like that.
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Re: The Nugget

Postby ribs » March 12th, 2019, 11:43 am

riocard911 wrote:Still and all, the strike against the head let them off the hook after they'd conceded numerous penos at the scrum and we were just about to get a penalty try, which would have made the score 33-0. Shortly after the try penalty at the halfway line led directly to a try for the opposition. Joe and Greg Feek will have been fuming, I reckon.

That was a very bad call by POM. Their prop had just been yellow carded so we had to know that a recovered Baby would be returning. A 5m lineout and maul would have yielded the same penalty try without our two weakest props being shown up
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