Can Leinster be competitive in the coming seasons?

[dropkick]

"The goal is to make semi finals of the Heineken cup and once that's achieved everyone is happy."

Well, if they get obliterated in the Ricoh - which, IMO, is an eminent possibility - they may have to question that line of thinking.......

Already got obliterated by Glasgow, Saracens, Scarlets and Racing in recent finals or semi finals.

[fourthirtythree]

To be fair I think we would get obliterated by Saracens on current form also. And when you get to the pointy end it's not about squad building at all.

The point still remains that Munster now have the academy talent, the U20s crop this year surely indicates that, but they are not getting the chances at senior level. This is most striking at scrum half and out half.

[Ruckedtobits]

One of the realities that we in Leinster should recognise is that our development system an. Processes is likely to overproduce in our efforts to unearth the very best. The production of c. 5-8 players per annum, targeted at a Squad of about 45 players, means that we replicate our Squad every 6-8 years. If we are bringing through players at 20 or 21 and about 30% of them are playing past their 32nd birthday, we inevitably have a surplus.

At present we have RK, Ferg, J10, Cian & SO'B all well into their 2nd decade of Leinster senior rugby. Add in guys like Nugget and Fardy, in the same age category and you begin to understand the fundamental structural problem in Leinster player development.

In the ideal world, our development pattern would be more closely aligned with our prospective replacement needs. However, the ideal world is not professional collision sport - ask Josh VdF or Dan L - and hence we occasionally face a period like the last season when some of those in the positions or progression feel they will be best served, for their careers - by jumping the queue elsewhere.

Maybe there's a series of algorithems somewhere which could calculate our future player needs more accurately and match supply and demand. But not even the best NFL franchises have this sorted so I will probably wait in frustration for that Holy Grail.

[Peg Leg]

I was at the A match in Donnybrook earlier in the season. Johnson was easily the best back on the pitch. Scott Penny stood out as the best forward by some distance in the same match.

Vakh looked alright too for his cameo.

"It was Mrs. O'Leary's cow"

[ronk]

One of the realities that we in Leinster should recognise is that our development system an. Processes is likely to overproduce in our efforts to unearth the very best. The production of c. 5-8 players per annum, targeted at a Squad of about 45 players, means that we replicate our Squad every 6-8 years. If we are bringing through players at 20 or 21 and about 30% of them are playing past their 32nd birthday, we inevitably have a surplus.

At present we have RK, Ferg, J10, Cian & SO'B all well into their 2nd decade of Leinster senior rugby. Add in guys like Nugget and Fardy, in the same age category and you begin to understand the fundamental structural problem in Leinster player development.

In the ideal world, our development pattern would be more closely aligned with our prospective replacement needs. However, the ideal world is not professional collision sport - ask Josh VdF or Dan L - and hence we occasionally face a period like the last season when some of those in the positions or progression feel they will be best served, for their careers - by jumping the queue elsewhere.

Maybe there's a series of algorithems somewhere which could calculate our future player needs more accurately and match supply and demand. But not even the best NFL franchises have this sorted so I will probably wait in frustration for that Holy Grail.

NFL teams recruit mostly through college, they don't develop players internally and recruit 100%

We were always comfortable with an amount of overproduction. We built it well to fend off foreign interest, largely successfully and it usually only fell over during low points.

You can hold onto elite players when moving hurts their international chances but it is hard, we have no chance when moving helps their international chances.

We can manage without the players we're losing: just about and at a cost. And for a short time, as an academy intake of 6-7 wont replace 2-4 important senior players leaving on top of normal attrition. (We lost 6 so far this year).

The bigger problem is that when the new system strongly encourages players to move on it becomes an order of magnitude harder to develop players.

Carbery was all set to stay but not getting picked for a few games was a big barrier, then Byrne made the summer tour. McGrath gets picked behind Byrne and suddenly he needs to move. McCarthy sees Park qualify for Ireland and academy players coming into training so he moves to a worse situation. Deegan gets picked out of position behind a younger player and it takes making him one of the most used players before he makes the rumours stop in an interview.

In letting Daly and Nagle move midseason Leinster have shown that we are serious about being willing to help player development in other provinces. We did right by fringe players.

[ronk]

It's taken 20 years to build a tradition and 2 years of greed by IRFU and other provinces are undoing it rapidly.

By the time the IRFU feel the pain themselves it will be much too late.

[Blueberry]

It's taken 20 years to build a tradition and 2 years of greed by IRFU and other provinces are undoing it rapidly.

By the time the IRFU feel the pain themselves it will be much too late.

That about sums it up......nothing else to say on the matter really.....good post.

[mildlyinterested]

Next season Saracens are adding a Lions to their squad(Elliot Daly), Leinster are losing at least two(SOB/McGrath).

[wixfjord]

Next season Saracens are adding a Lions to their squad(Elliot Daly), Leinster are losing at least two(SOB/McGrath).

Of course Saracens are losing Burger, Strettle and Bosch too, and Daly is their only signing.

So it depends what lens you put on it.

[Ruckedtobits]

Next season Saracens are adding a Lions to their squad(Elliot Daly), Leinster are losing at least two(SOB/McGrath).

Of course Saracens are losing Burger, Strettle and Bosch too, and Daly is their only signing.

So it depends what lens you put on it.

And next Season, players such as the O'Briens, Frawley, the Kellehers, Dunne, Deegan, Doris and Penny, (and others), all familiar on these threads, will emerge into the public mind as almost fully-formed competitive products of the Leinster Academy and our competitors internationally will wonder how we continue to do it.

I certainly prefer the Leinster production platform to the more expensive and ex-clusive process of high profile recruits.

[mildlyinterested]

Next season Saracens are adding a Lions to their squad(Elliot Daly), Leinster are losing at least two(SOB/McGrath).

Of course Saracens are losing Burger, Strettle and Bosch too, and Daly is their only signing.

So it depends what lens you put on it.

And next Season, players such as the O'Briens, Frawley, the Kellehers, Dunne, Deegan, Doris and Penny, (and others), all familiar on these threads, will emerge into the public mind as almost fully-formed competitive products of the Leinster Academy and our competitors internationally will wonder how we continue to do it.

I certainly prefer the Leinster production platform to the more expensive and ex-clusive process of high profile recruits.

Do you know Tommy O'Brien's current status? He hasn't played since an A game against Munster post X-mas.

[hugonaut]

Do you know Tommy O'Brien's current status? He hasn't played since an A game against Munster post X-mas.

Rehabbing after surgery for a torn hamstring.

[mildlyinterested]

Do you know Tommy O'Brien's current status? He hasn't played since an A game against Munster post X-mas.

Rehabbing after surgery for a torn hamstring.

Thanks, shame he effectively lost this season. Hopefully he can hit the ground running in preseason.

[Oldschool]

Next season Saracens are adding a Lions to their squad(Elliot Daly), Leinster are losing at least two(SOB/McGrath).

Of course Saracens are losing Burger, Strettle and Bosch too, and Daly is their only signing.

So it depends what lens you put on it.

I've come firmly around to the view that fans should only use a myopic lens when it comes to squad building.
In plain man's English (or the Queen's, if you prefer) we should poor mouth our squad depth.
It has worked very well for both Munster and Ulster.

[mildlyinterested]

Next season Saracens are adding a Lions to their squad(Elliot Daly), Leinster are losing at least two(SOB/McGrath).

Of course Saracens are losing Burger, Strettle and Bosch too, and Daly is their only signing.

So it depends what lens you put on it.

I've come firmly around to the view that fans should only use a myopic lens when it comes to squad building.
In plain man's English (or the Queen's, if you prefer) we should poor mouth our squad depth.
It has worked very well for both Munster and Ulster.

[ronk]

Next season Saracens are adding a Lions to their squad(Elliot Daly), Leinster are losing at least two(SOB/McGrath).

Of course Saracens are losing Burger, Strettle and Bosch too, and Daly is their only signing.

So it depends what lens you put on it.

I've come firmly around to the view that fans should only use a myopic lens when it comes to squad building.
In plain man's English (or the Queen's, if you prefer) we should poor mouth our squad depth.
It has worked very well for both Munster and Ulster.

I wouldn't agree with doing that sort of thing, but we are light in a number of positions and need to make signings if we are to continue to build on our success.

[Twist]

Tadhg Beirne’s contract with Munster ends at the end of next season. I say we start a change.org to bring him home


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[Oldschool]

Tadhg Beirne’s contract with Munster ends at the end of next season. I say we start a change.org to bring him home


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Too late Munster will have ruined him by then.

[Dave Cahill]

Tadhg Beirne’s contract with Munster ends at the end of next season. I say we start a change.org to bring him home

Why? We have Ryan, Moloney and Toner and by the time the latter is winding down we have Baird, Dunne, Charlie Ryan, Dowling and others on deck. We might actually have to lose one or two

[mildlyinterested]

So 7 senior squad players confirmed leaving, replaced by:

Jack McGrath(29, 144 Leinster Caps ,54 Irish Caps, British & Irish Lion )
Ian Nagle(30, 19 Leinster Caps)
Mick Kearney(28, 51 Leinster Caps)
Sean O'Brien(32, 125 Leinster Caps, 52 Irish Caps, British & Irish Lion)
Nick McCarthy(24, 34 Leinster Caps)
Noel Reid(29, 121 Leinster Caps, 1 Irish Cap)
Tom Daly(26, 12 Leinster Caps))

-> Peter Dooley(25, 61 Leinster Caps)
-> Jack Dunne(20. 5 Leinster Caps)
-> Oisin Dowling(22, 4 Leinster Caps)
-> Max Deegan(22. 43 Leinster Caps)
-> Hugh O'Sullivan(21, 14 Leinster Caps)
-> Ciaran Frawley(21, 14 Leinster Caps)
-> Conor O'Brien(23, 17 Leinster Caps