The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Five.

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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby riocard911 » November 5th, 2019, 5:21 pm

Any chance Saracens by means of their dodgy financial dealings also cheated Her Majesty's Revenue? That's what did for Glasgow Rangers a few years back...
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby FLIP » November 5th, 2019, 5:39 pm

riocard911 wrote:Any chance Saracens by means of their dodgy financial dealings also cheated Her Majesty's Revenue? That's what did for Glasgow Rangers a few years back...


The reason why they were found out was because all company details are available in Companies House in the UK. This would include accounts in a shortened form. HMRC would already be all over the players anyway due to sponsorship deals etc, and they would be extremely foolish to do anything in the tax evasion sense (which is what did Rangers in).
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 5th, 2019, 7:05 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I wonder if there's anything to prevent the business deals being dissolved but then Nigel Wray gives out million pound wedding presents etc in ten years time.

Yes: the law.

Judges look incredibly unfavourably at spurious deals engaged in solely for the purpose of circumventing rules. Tax law is rife with case law on the subject and it really pisses people off in a bad way.

Basically it's what they have already been done for, repeating it doesn't usually go down well.


I was being facetious about the payment but why cant they enter into business dealings in future? Surely there can't be any legal basis for preventing the two parties engaging in some kind of deal? It's not like this has gone through the courts, it's just an internal investigation.

It sounds like Saracens will have to offload players but I can imagine Wray saying "if you stick with me now then we can go into business when you retire on the same terms as before". He's an investor and the players will have money to spend and a need to forge new careers, it makes sense that they'd go into business after their playing days are over.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby MylesNaGapoleen » November 5th, 2019, 7:23 pm

Itoje has offered to sell his RWC silver medal to help pay for the fine
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby blockhead » November 5th, 2019, 7:23 pm

a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby Jonny tight lips » November 5th, 2019, 9:21 pm

cormac wrote:
curates_egg wrote:Jaysus, you lot are some craic!
I was only jokingly suggesting it.

However, for all the Sarries lawyers: if their Premiership title in 2018 were to be annulled (i.e. if they were found to be breaking the salary cap that season and that sanction were applied), surely they then illegitimately qualified for Europe. So how could their participation in that competition be deemed to be valid?
As for Glasgow being more affected, that's a reasonable violin to play. But, when winners are disqualified in sports, the award always goes to the next highest performer in the competition - even if they hampered other competitors. There is no other way to decide it.

I'm just back from the tailors, where they embroidered my fifth star onto this year's shirt. You can probably get some of those Chinese ones off d'internet with the 5 stars already though.


Well that's not true. There's now no recorded winner of the Tour de France in the years in which Lance Armstrong "won" those races.


Wasn’t that because there was an assumption that the runner up was cheating too? Don’t think anybody is claiming we were up to no good. Although as we have no salery cap in the pro14 we could theoretically spend twice what sarries spend on the team and nobody would think we were cheating.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby johng » November 5th, 2019, 9:51 pm

No salary cap. But we do have an niq cap and player restrictions that they don't have to deal with.

Different strokes
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby blockhead » November 5th, 2019, 10:10 pm

johng wrote:No salary cap. But we do have an niq cap and player restrictions that they don't have to deal with.

Different strokes


An infinite number of temporary replacements who can stay on and on and on means.......... we don't really have a niq cap.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby Jonny tight lips » November 5th, 2019, 10:21 pm

blockhead wrote:
johng wrote:No salary cap. But we do have an niq cap and player restrictions that they don't have to deal with.

Different strokes


An infinite number of temporary replacements who can stay on and on and on means.......... we don't really have a niq cap.


The never ending story of the Alby 2 month contract .... many years from now nobody will remember when he joined Munster, just that he always seemed to of been there and always on a short term deal.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby ronk » November 5th, 2019, 11:35 pm

We dont have a formal salary cap. But the IRFU approve all contracts. So they don't need one.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby Morf » November 6th, 2019, 2:37 am

ronk wrote:We dont have a formal salary cap. But the IRFU approve all contracts. So they don't need one.


The only cap we need sits on Tom Grace's head.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby paddyor » November 6th, 2019, 3:11 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:
blockhead wrote:The other PRL clubs are looking to have their recent titles removed from the record book.
Nothing to do with Europe though.


From my limited knowledge of this investigation, it is the resolve of the other Premiership Clubs, all of whom are shareholders in the competition company, which outlined the terms of the investigation, the range of sanctions available and the very limited terms of Appeal available after the investigation.

The critical element is what can Sarries do now? Total remuneration will have to reduce, but will some players consider suing the Club for under-payment of contractual earnings? There is then the question as to whether all players will stay with them on lower earnings?

As a matter of interest, it appears that the Top 14 also have a Salary Cap and, from this Season onwards a minimum number of JIFF players in each match-day Squad (essentially players of French origin). What the French Clubs don't have is the commonality of interest in the LNR (the Top14 Company) to ensure than sanctions and other fines are big enough to correct offenders. Clubs have been relegated in France for financial irregularities but no fine or points sanction of this magnitude has ever been applied.

T14 salary cap is relative to turnover AFAIK. So Castres would be a good deal less than Toulouse or the like. That goes back to the fin regs you mentioned. Leeds Carnegie were in danger of relegation from the English championship last season and went on spending spree to aoid it. They did and went bankrupt in the summer. They got docked points but they were allowed to stay up IIRC.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby curates_egg » November 6th, 2019, 11:31 am

For all those Sarries fans out there, what is the line-to-take on their now show for the launch?
https://www.the42.ie/saracens-launch-ep ... 28-Nov2019
How are we defending this one?
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby Oldschool » November 6th, 2019, 1:27 pm

curates_egg wrote:For all those Sarries fans out there, what is the line-to-take on their now show for the launch?
https://www.the42.ie/saracens-launch-ep ... 28-Nov2019
How are we defending this one?

Our players are distraught at what has come out.
Even Nigel, normally a hard nosed business man, broke down into tears when he heard the rumours.
He did everything he could to prevent the news reaching Japan.
Sadly the SAns got wind of it before the final and "tipped" the English players off.
The rest is history, our lads were so upset that they just couldn't perform in the final.
They/we have suffered enough.
It's time to draw a line under this whole sorry saga and move on.
Historically I know that you Irish might think of a situation like this as being a "Thundering Disgrace"
However I am aware that you have moved into the 21st century.
We understand that ye are now fond of saying,
"It is what it is".
Let us finally say we admire your new found lack of outrage.

What do you think Nigel, will they buy it?

PS I forgot to mention that Mr Wray was looking resplendent in his crocodile skin overcoat when he was in tears.
Last edited by Oldschool on November 6th, 2019, 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby Twist » November 6th, 2019, 2:13 pm

curates_egg wrote:For all those Sarries fans out there, what is the line-to-take on their now show for the launch?
https://www.the42.ie/saracens-launch-ep ... 28-Nov2019
How are we defending this one?


Wolves are scavengers. At the first sign of real trouble, when the odds are not in their favour, they run off yelping.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby fourthirtythree » November 6th, 2019, 2:32 pm

Twist wrote:
curates_egg wrote:For all those Sarries fans out there, what is the line-to-take on their now show for the launch?
https://www.the42.ie/saracens-launch-ep ... 28-Nov2019
How are we defending this one?


Wolves are scavengers. At the first sign of real trouble, when the odds are not in their favour, they run off yelping.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

To be fair most predators don't really look for a proper fight, they go for children and the old/sick for preference.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby Logorrhea » November 6th, 2019, 2:48 pm

Its a "launch" for the press. You can guarantee every hack would be there to attack Barritt, McCall and everyone else that was put in front of the camera's (and rightly so). Makes perfect sense to miss it.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby Pilotman123 » November 6th, 2019, 3:42 pm

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:Itoje has offered to sell his RWC silver medal to help pay for the fine


*** Edited by mod ***
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 6th, 2019, 4:06 pm

Fairly certain Pilotman wants to be banned, and we should oblige.
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Re: The Final, Saracens in Newcastle, May 11th. Drive for Fi

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 6th, 2019, 4:07 pm

Pilotman123 wrote:
MylesNaGapoleen wrote:Itoje has offered to sell his RWC silver medal to help pay for the fine

*** Edited by mod ***


Quoted just in case it's edited.
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