Home Pro 14 Semi-Final, Sat 18/5 @ The RDS, 14.30

[the spoofer]

Amusing to read wall-to-wall commentary about Munster’s woes and future here.

It's not that amusing when we also read that IRFU are going to take over academy intake.

[mildlyinterested]

Amusing to read wall-to-wall commentary about Munster’s woes and future here.

It's not that amusing when we also read that IRFU are going to take over academy intake.

he has been overseeing that as is I believe, wait and see what happens... but if he starts to take a more active role.. well that can only be bad for leinster rugby.

[Keith]

Munster Night Rugby with Andy Dunne just out on Youtube. He talks a good game. Leinster got a mention near the end , wasn't much but we got more than Ulster so there.

Andy "British Lions" Dunne. Can't stand him.

[Twist]

Munster Night Rugby with Andy Dunne just out on Youtube. He talks a good game. Leinster got a mention near the end , wasn't much but we got more than Ulster so there.

Andy "British Lions" Dunne. Can't stand him.

Im glad Im not the only one to be annoyed by that. It takes less time to just say 'Lions'

[mildlyinterested]

Munster Night Rugby with Andy Dunne just out on Youtube. He talks a good game. Leinster got a mention near the end , wasn't much but we got more than Ulster so there.

Andy "British Lions" Dunne. Can't stand him.

Can be a a bit smug, but generally think his analysis isn't far off.. e.g lack of creativity in irish rugby

[Blueberry]

I think two words provide a neat summary for Munster's position: Alby Mathewson.

He is a fine player and an excellent stand in for Murray while he dealt with his injury in the Autumn. Munster fans seemed pleased as it meant the standard if the team did not drop significantly (further) in the absence of their best player.

But what are the unintended consequences of his presence? The long list of other scrumhalves (Cronin, Casey, Hart and Williams) are denied game time and the opportunity to improve. Provincial budget is spent on an import rather than a Munster-developed (or even Irish-eligible) player. Then it turns out he's pretty handy, so the signing of a medical joker gets extended to the end of the season and again extended until the end of the World Cup. Meanwhile, the starting scrum half for the under 20s grand slam winners gets ignored and has to wait until the very end of the season for minutes with the first team, when he looks really good. But that only happens after Munster announce the signing of McCarthy, so the cycle continues.

I honestly believe that if McGrath and Gibson-Park were injured for Leinster at the start if the season we would simply have hailed the next taxis off the rank and promoted McCarthy, O'Sullivan, Patterson and trust them to make errors and learn.

Once young players see that they are trusted (and not blamed for any honest errors) there must be a positive buy-in from all concerned. Conversely, if their progress is constantly blocked by imported talent signed to satisfy myopic supporters then they get disillusioned and leave; exhibit A: Bill Johnston.

Good post and agree entirely, remember when Ross Byrne started playing senior games he looked way out of his depth but in time he has turned into a super player but Leo and Co invested in him and gave him confidence which is half the battle. Adopting the Munster model he would have got three games for Leinster been written off and some import would have been flown in while Ross became waterboy. If you don't play em for a good period of time you won't find out. Bill Johnston heads off to Ulster and hopefully he will get a fair crack of the whip up there, good luck.

[ronk]

I think two words provide a neat summary for Munster's position: Alby Mathewson.

He is a fine player and an excellent stand in for Murray while he dealt with his injury in the Autumn. Munster fans seemed pleased as it meant the standard if the team did not drop significantly (further) in the absence of their best player.

But what are the unintended consequences of his presence? The long list of other scrumhalves (Cronin, Casey, Hart and Williams) are denied game time and the opportunity to improve. Provincial budget is spent on an import rather than a Munster-developed (or even Irish-eligible) player. Then it turns out he's pretty handy, so the signing of a medical joker gets extended to the end of the season and again extended until the end of the World Cup. Meanwhile, the starting scrum half for the under 20s grand slam winners gets ignored and has to wait until the very end of the season for minutes with the first team, when he looks really good. But that only happens after Munster announce the signing of McCarthy, so the cycle continues.

I honestly believe that if McGrath and Gibson-Park were injured for Leinster at the start if the season we would simply have hailed the next taxis off the rank and promoted McCarthy, O'Sullivan, Patterson and trust them to make errors and learn.

Once young players see that they are trusted (and not blamed for any honest errors) there must be a positive buy-in from all concerned. Conversely, if their progress is constantly blocked by imported talent signed to satisfy myopic supporters then they get disillusioned and leave; exhibit A: Bill Johnston.

Good post and agree entirely, remember when Ross Byrne started playing senior games he looked way out of his depth but in time he has turned into a super player but Leo and Co invested in him and gave him confidence which is half the battle. Adopting the Munster model he would have got three games for Leinster been written off and some import would have been flown in while Ross became waterboy. If you don't play em for a good period of time you won't find out. Bill Johnston heads off to Ulster and hopefully he will get a fair crack of the whip up there, good luck.

Unintended consequences!?
Williams and Hart both benched in the same game in the Celtic Cup.

That's not accidental neglect, that's malicious neglect.

[D4surfer]

I think two words provide a neat summary for Munster's position: Alby Mathewson.

He is a fine player and an excellent stand in for Murray while he dealt with his injury in the Autumn. Munster fans seemed pleased as it meant the standard if the team did not drop significantly (further) in the absence of their best player.

But what are the unintended consequences of his presence? The long list of other scrumhalves (Cronin, Casey, Hart and Williams) are denied game time and the opportunity to improve. Provincial budget is spent on an import rather than a Munster-developed (or even Irish-eligible) player. Then it turns out he's pretty handy, so the signing of a medical joker gets extended to the end of the season and again extended until the end of the World Cup. Meanwhile, the starting scrum half for the under 20s grand slam winners gets ignored and has to wait until the very end of the season for minutes with the first team, when he looks really good. But that only happens after Munster announce the signing of McCarthy, so the cycle continues.

I honestly believe that if McGrath and Gibson-Park were injured for Leinster at the start if the season we would simply have hailed the next taxis off the rank and promoted McCarthy, O'Sullivan, Patterson and trust them to make errors and learn.

Once young players see that they are trusted (and not blamed for any honest errors) there must be a positive buy-in from all concerned. Conversely, if their progress is constantly blocked by imported talent signed to satisfy myopic supporters then they get disillusioned and leave; exhibit A: Bill Johnston.

Good post and agree entirely, remember when Ross Byrne started playing senior games he looked way out of his depth but in time he has turned into a super player but Leo and Co invested in him and gave him confidence which is half the battle. Adopting the Munster model he would have got three games for Leinster been written off and some import would have been flown in while Ross became waterboy. If you don't play em for a good period of time you won't find out. Bill Johnston heads off to Ulster and hopefully he will get a fair crack of the whip up there, good luck.

Unintended consequences!?
Williams and Hart both benched in the same game in the Celtic Cup.

That's not accidental neglect, that's malicious neglect.

I said on the relevant thread at the time of the A game with Munster in Donnybrook, that Johnson was head and shoulders the best back on display in the game. Likewise Penny was clearly the best forward. Penny got game time in our first team while Johnson was ignored in Munster. Fair play to Ulster, I think they have a gem for the future.

Also read this about Johnson's brother. https://www.the42.ie/dave-johnston-muns ... 8-May2019/

[ronk]

I meant the Cara Cup. Both matches Munster played 2 9s on the bench. Hart was the one who didn't start.

https://munsterrugby.ie/2019/04/05/team ... ree-jacks/
https://www.irishrugby.ie/2019/04/10/le ... encounter/

The Dave Johnston article should be a shocking read.

Leinster may have reduced workload as they built for the future but they have continued to give the guys who are leaving every chance. McCarthy got 9 mins in a semi against his new club, we had other options. If he was in Munster now he wouldn't have been on the bench.

[Keith]

I meant the Cara Cup. Both matches Munster played 2 9s on the bench. Hart was the one who didn't start.

https://munsterrugby.ie/2019/04/05/team ... ree-jacks/
https://www.irishrugby.ie/2019/04/10/le ... encounter/

The Dave Johnston article should be a shocking read.

Leinster may have reduced workload as they built for the future but they have continued to give the guys who are leaving every chance. McCarthy got 9 mins in a semi against his new club, we had other options. If he was in Munster now he wouldn't have been on the bench.

A lot of people commented on that at the time and said how bizarre it was to see both Williams and Hart on the tour at all. Both these lads have played at the top level of club rugby in Europe and bringing them on this tour was incredibly pointless. They must of been trying to put them in the shop window for the MLR teams.

[riocard911]

They humiliated Keatley the same way; at the end of his time there Munster had him benching for the As. I thought it was despicable.

[ronk]

They humiliated Keatley the same way; at the end of his time there Munster had him benching for the As. I thought it was despicable.

Constructive dismissal.

Incredibly short sighted from van Graan and abetted by Munster Rugby. That much bad karma damages an environment in many ways. Players need to trust coaches; players won’t want to move to Munster; disengaged players affect dressing rooms especially when things start to go wrong; unaffected players can still be affected through solidarity; guys are being paid not to play; academy players pick up on the toxic atmosphere; squad becomes divided; it becomes normalized for fans to turn on players.