Home Pro 14 Semi-Final, Sat 18/5 @ The RDS, 14.30

[Blueberry]

I think the thing that these guys forget (Conway / Carbery / Jordi etc etc) is coaching. Leinster (bar our brief soujorn with that fella who I dare not moction) has been by far the best place to be for access to top coaching and opportunities.

Conway was a talent and who knows where he could be if he had stayed at Leinster with Lancaster coaching him and Carbery I fear will not reach his ceiling if he stays down south. It's all well and good getting starting game time by shifting province but consistent brilliant coaching in the right environment is the only way to reach the very top elite level. Unless things radically change down south no chance of that.

Of course the flip side is the competition for places is fierce at Leinster but this in someway also defines the player as the very best players see it as the ultimate challenge and perform and become the number one - look at Healy coming back to being first choice, Sexton's drive, Conan sticking firm etc etc. Carbery should have stayed and said right I'm going to displace Sexton or Rob (depending on where he wanted to play). It takes that sort of character to be the very best - leaving the elite province and arguably the best club in Europe in the last decade and moving to a lesser team is unlikely to get you to the top.

He was playing, albeit out of position most of the time, for the best team in Europe. He was rightly being lauded as the future international 10 and he let his impatience and possibly ego get the better of him by moving to a rival club who have tended to be on the wrong end of results against his old team. He also left behind possibly the best coaching and development structure in Europe and the opportunity to continue learning off the best player in the world, who also plays his position. Within a few months he has ended up on a higher wage and longer contract so he got that aspect right, I suppose.

If you ask me, Neymar should never have left Barcelona for PSG.

The decision defines the player - if he really wanted to be the best 10 in Ireland - you knock J10 off his perch or if Lancaster et al think you're a better 15 then knock Rob off his perch. They are not untouchable. For what it's worth I am totally convinced he should be a 15. He is one of those rare talents (Larmour, Earls, Ringers about the only other ones in Irish rugby atm) who can beat a man in space with feet purely and he had the room at 15 to do this, also good under the high ball and I personally think in the modern game he is too cramped at 10 for space. He was electric at times at 15 for Leinster......just my view on it anyway. Time will tell but I think he'll ultimately regret the decision to move.

[Oldschool]

I think the thing that these guys forget (Conway / Carbery / Jordi etc etc) is coaching. Leinster (bar our brief soujorn with that fella who I dare not moction) has been by far the best place to be for access to top coaching and opportunities.

Conway was a talent and who knows where he could be if he had stayed at Leinster with Lancaster coaching him and Carbery I fear will not reach his ceiling if he stays down south. It's all well and good getting starting game time by shifting province but consistent brilliant coaching in the right environment is the only way to reach the very top elite level. Unless things radically change down south no chance of that.

Of course the flip side is the competition for places is fierce at Leinster but this in someway also defines the player as the very best players see it as the ultimate challenge and perform and become the number one - look at Healy coming back to being first choice, Sexton's drive, Conan sticking firm etc etc. Carbery should have stayed and said right I'm going to displace Sexton or Rob (depending on where he wanted to play). It takes that sort of character to be the very best - leaving the elite province and arguably the best club in Europe in the last decade and moving to a lesser team is unlikely to get you to the top.

Access to Top coaching really is the issue.
It's the issue that Joecifora have ignored in their mad rush to move players out of Leinster.
Joey will wither in Munster. He'll never realise that potential that he undoubtedly has.
Nucifora has to address the issue of the coaching tickets that Munster keep in insisting in hiring.
Penney might have been the coach to change things but got the push just when he was starting to make a difference
Many seasons and Euros spent later Munster are in worse place than they were when Penney was ushered out the door.
Pat Lam came to Connacht and turned a team of no-hopers into Pro12 winners.
At the start of the season Ulster looked goosed.
McFarland has come in, the improvement has been evident and Ulster's season has been rescued.
We had our own four letter coach and suffered a big dip
Ulster and Munster have wasted a lot of time and money going nowhere. Ulster have realised the error of their ways.
Munster need to realise that SA rugby is all about power.
That might have suited Munster in a bygone era.
It's time to change.
Otherwise if I remember where/when I posted this I could do a copy and paste in four years time.

[fourthirtythree]

McGrath overtook Healy on form and became Leinster and Ireland's first choice loosehead and a test lion on the back of the competition here in Leinster. Healy stayed on to win his place back knowing that if he worked and healed and delivered performances he would be rewarded.

Lancaster said at the time of the Joey Carbery thing that what we should be asking was "what is best for the player?" He genuinely believed that staying in Leinster would be the best thing for Joey. I agree, and if it's the best for Joey it's the best for Ireland too. I don't think Carbery has progressed one iota down South and that was utterly, depressingly, predictable.

This is particularly noticeable for Conway, whoever got in his ear from Munster to get him to ask out of his contract did not have Conway's best interest at heart. The back 3 at leinster was going to be much easier to break into than in Munster of the time. His career stalled for years. Remember he was the star of the underage team, record try scorer, all that. He hit a minor speedbump and didn't get caps. He threw the toys out of the pram and his career is what ifs and might have beens. I guess that's why he looked so bitter and angry on Saturday. He hit Lowe off the ball and behind the line, verbals start, Lowe picks himself up and smashes someone in defence and has time for some words back to Conway, who is still giving out to him, on the way back to the line.

I hope he serves as an example to the squad we have.

[Twist]

I do wonder how Carbery feels about the impending coaching appointments. I don't know what Larkham is like as a coach but as a player he would be a decent model for Joey to follow

[LeinsterLeader]

Thought I'd share this great piece of Photography from Sportsfile.

Penny for your thoughts lads

[blockhead]

Thought I'd share this great piece of Photography from Sportsfile.

Penney for your thoughts lads

Fixed that for ya

[LeinsterLeader]

Thought I'd share this great piece of Photography from Sportsfile.

Penney for your thoughts lads

Fixed that for ya

Ah you're mean!

[fourthirtythree]

To be fair you should have seen the face on Leo towards the end. And we were winning. If you put that up on a big screen it would have looked as bad as any Munster expression.

[olaf the fat]

Munster excuse #1905 - Leinster lost to Glasgow a few weeks ago, thereby preventing Munster a home semi final.

Van Graan is scraping the barrel with that one.

[hugonaut]

I think the thing that these guys forget (Conway / Carbery / Jordi etc etc) is coaching. Leinster (bar our brief soujorn with that fella who I dare not moction) has been by far the best place to be for access to top coaching and opportunities.

Conway was a talent and who knows where he could be if he had stayed at Leinster with Lancaster coaching him and Carbery I fear will not reach his ceiling if he stays down south. It's all well and good getting starting game time by shifting province but consistent brilliant coaching in the right environment is the only way to reach the very top elite level. Unless things radically change down south no chance of that.

Of course the flip side is the competition for places is fierce at Leinster but this in someway also defines the player as the very best players see it as the ultimate challenge and perform and become the number one - look at Healy coming back to being first choice, Sexton's drive, Conan sticking firm etc etc. Carbery should have stayed and said right I'm going to displace Sexton or Rob (depending on where he wanted to play). It takes that sort of character to be the very best - leaving the elite province and arguably the best club in Europe in the last decade and moving to a lesser team is unlikely to get you to the top.

He was playing, albeit out of position most of the time, for the best team in Europe. He was rightly being lauded as the future international 10 and he let his impatience and possibly ego get the better of him by moving to a rival club who have tended to be on the wrong end of results against his old team. He also left behind possibly the best coaching and development structure in Europe and the opportunity to continue learning off the best player in the world, who also plays his position. Within a few months he has ended up on a higher wage and longer contract so he got that aspect right, I suppose.

If you ask me, Neymar should never have left Barcelona for PSG.

I think it's a little bit unfair on Carbery to regard his move as a sign that impatience or ego got the better of him.

I don't think there was any duress or coercion from Nucifora or Schmidt, but they are without any doubt the two people who have the most influence over any pro rugby player's career in Ireland, and they both made an argument that he should move away from Leinster. Not specifically to Munster – they would have been happy for him to go to Ulster.

It put him in an invidious situation, because both Schmidt and Nucifora had plausible deniability when it came to the fallout: they could truthfully say that they had simply talked to him about where they saw his future, and outlined options to him. But it's not your agent talking to you, it's your employer. If that isn't a loaded conversation, I don't know what is. Before Nucifora and Schmidt talked to him, he was saying [in public, on the record] that he was happy to play for Leinster:

Jan 06 2018: "I'm happy in Leinster, I always will be happy in Leinster" [source: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 62684.html ]
Apr 04 2018: "I'm pretty happy where I am, to be honest. I don't see myself moving." [source: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 72653.html ]

After those conversations, there was obviously a big change.

[brotheroffrank]

Looking forward to welcoming Benetton.

did we play "Benetton In Disguise" on Saturday?

[joooooe]

I think the thing that these guys forget (Conway / Carbery / Jordi etc etc) is coaching. Leinster (bar our brief soujorn with that fella who I dare not moction) has been by far the best place to be for access to top coaching and opportunities.

Conway was a talent and who knows where he could be if he had stayed at Leinster with Lancaster coaching him and Carbery I fear will not reach his ceiling if he stays down south. It's all well and good getting starting game time by shifting province but consistent brilliant coaching in the right environment is the only way to reach the very top elite level. Unless things radically change down south no chance of that.

Of course the flip side is the competition for places is fierce at Leinster but this in someway also defines the player as the very best players see it as the ultimate challenge and perform and become the number one - look at Healy coming back to being first choice, Sexton's drive, Conan sticking firm etc etc. Carbery should have stayed and said right I'm going to displace Sexton or Rob (depending on where he wanted to play). It takes that sort of character to be the very best - leaving the elite province and arguably the best club in Europe in the last decade and moving to a lesser team is unlikely to get you to the top.

He was playing, albeit out of position most of the time, for the best team in Europe. He was rightly being lauded as the future international 10 and he let his impatience and possibly ego get the better of him by moving to a rival club who have tended to be on the wrong end of results against his old team. He also left behind possibly the best coaching and development structure in Europe and the opportunity to continue learning off the best player in the world, who also plays his position. Within a few months he has ended up on a higher wage and longer contract so he got that aspect right, I suppose.

If you ask me, Neymar should never have left Barcelona for PSG.

I think it's a little bit unfair on Carbery to regard his move as a sign that impatience or ego got the better of him.

I don't think there was any duress or coercion from Nucifora or Schmidt, but they are without any doubt the two people who have the most influence over any pro rugby player's career in Ireland, and they both made an argument that he should move away from Leinster. Not specifically to Munster – they would have been happy for him to go to Ulster.

It put him in an invidious situation, because both Schmidt and Nucifora had plausible deniability when it came to the fallout: they could truthfully say that they had simply talked to him about where they saw his future, and outlined options to him. But it's not your agent talking to you, it's your employer. If that isn't a loaded conversation, I don't know what is. Before Nucifora and Schmidt talked to him, he was saying [in public, on the record] that he was happy to play for Leinster:

Jan 06 2018: "I'm happy in Leinster, I always will be happy in Leinster" [source: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 62684.html ]
Apr 04 2018: "I'm pretty happy where I am, to be honest. I don't see myself moving." [source: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 72653.html ]

After those conversations, there was obviously a big change.

I actually agree with you 100%. I just wanted to make a clever trolling post about Neymar. I'll go back to my cave and see what parallels I can draw between Andrew Conway and Sergio Ramos, and leave the actual analysis to you lads.

[Oldschool]

In summary when your boss tells you what's good for your career you've got two choices.
Do as your boss suggests or leave the company.
Carbery's mistake was to move to Munster.
The only thing that makes sense of it is that perhaps it was pointed out to him that, playing with Murray at club level and given Sexton's age, he might be first choice OH come RWC time.
That might still happen.

[Oldschool]

Looking forward to welcoming Benetton.

did we play "Benetton In Disguise" on Saturday?

Could have been a much tougher proposition if we had.

[cormac]

James Lowe's try at the death on Saturday was our 130th try of the season, a new club record eclipsing the 129 we scored in 2016/17.

By contrast we only managed 60 in Leo's first year in charge.

[Blueberry]

Munster excuse #1905 - Leinster lost to Glasgow a few weeks ago, thereby preventing Munster a home semi final.

Van Graan is scraping the barrel with that one.

Fair point we did throw that game in purpose just to annoy them. At least it's different from the 'well we only have two rugby schools in Munster and Leinster is picking from 92 million people and has 30,000 rugby mad schools with professional coaches'

Meanwhile Bill Johnson has to go to Ulster to get a game as there is a line of stolen goods and imports blocking his progression in Munster......

[artaneboy]

Thought I'd share this great piece of Photography from Sportsfile.

Penny for your thoughts lads

Yeah, they should have retained him. Penny, that is...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hugonaut]

I actually agree with you 100%. I just wanted to make a clever trolling post about Neymar. I'll go back to my cave and see what parallels I can draw between Andrew Conway and Sergio Ramos, and leave the actual analysis to you lads.

Sorry for being such a killjoy. I actually appreciated the Neymar analogy and look forward to Conway:Ramos.

[fourthirtythree]

Does Conway also have a giant Wehrmacht insignia tattoed on his neck and back? Ugh.

[blockhead]

Munster Night Rugby with Andy Dunne just out on Youtube. He talks a good game. Leinster got a mention near the end , wasn't much but we got more than Ulster so there.