HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Jcahill1 » November 17th, 2019, 4:13 am

I agree with him. At one stage I lost commentary and just had the crowd noise
but they fixed it unfortunately.
Nugent drives me mental because he never shuts up and has such a mincing voice.
Also employing someone to offer expert analysis who has never played rugby to a
standard anywhere near Heineken cup level is a bit problematic in at least a couple of ways.
It smacks of tokenism and also these experts can come across as a bit desperate to show
how much they know. Finally women's voices just don't work as well as men's in being intelligible
over crowd noises unless they've had a 40 a day habit for more than a decade. They have to shout,
there's currently a woman football commentator on 5live who sounds like Spitting Image's Margaret Thatcher.
.

By that standard of 'tokenism' no woman in the world would be able to commentate any top flight mens game then?
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 17th, 2019, 8:40 am

Jcahill1 wrote:
I agree with him. At one stage I lost commentary and just had the crowd noise
but they fixed it unfortunately.
Nugent drives me mental because he never shuts up and has such a mincing voice.
Also employing someone to offer expert analysis who has never played rugby to a
standard anywhere near Heineken cup level is a bit problematic in at least a couple of ways.
It smacks of tokenism and also these experts can come across as a bit desperate to show
how much they know. Finally women's voices just don't work as well as men's in being intelligible
over crowd noises unless they've had a 40 a day habit for more than a decade. They have to shout,
there's currently a woman football commentator on 5live who sounds like Spitting Image's Margaret Thatcher.
.

By that standard of 'tokenism' no woman in the world would be able to commentate any top flight mens game then?

To be fair to Tom he tried to hide it behind “someone... who has never played rugby to a standard anywhere near Heineken cup...” which is obviously silly because the Heineken cup is defunct. But it’s a nice neat way to put the dog whistling goalposts on rails where they can be moved at leisure.
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 17th, 2019, 8:41 am

johng wrote:Women never get listened to unless they deliberately lower the pitch of their voice. Sounde ridiculous but is a well known fact.

Millennia of conditioning.

Seán O’Brien is taken very very seriously...
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby arsebiscuits1 » November 17th, 2019, 8:45 am

Haven't watched it back yet but first impressions were it was a reasonably satisfying performance giving the bedding in of some more key men.

First time we've beaten Benneton at home since 2016! (?)

I thought they were exceptionally cynical without the ball and really didn't add to the game as a spectical. The ref whistled them a lot but really needed more control of the game. Not an overly impressive performance from him. 2 really frustrating maul turnovers where they made no effort to legally defend it were lowlights for him.

Rare to see Johnny make that many breaks with the ball in hand. Loving the running game. Clearly blowing off some cobwebs!

I thought Max was great when he came on. Played like a man very annoyed to be left on the bench.

Highlight for me was our Defence on our own line. Kept them out for maybe 20 phases and they knocked on. Those moments are really satisfying.

Finally a shout out to the broadcast who robbed the 17500 people there the chance to witness Lowe's amazing skill to keep the ball in play off the penalty.
He's gotten awfully fond of that brick
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby curates_egg » November 17th, 2019, 9:32 am

I thought “the woman” was a lot better than some of the usual subjects. Nugent was excruciatingly annoying.

That was a good physical test. Three tries coughed up is never good, but there was also some good line defence.
Both lineouts seemed to have each other figured out and their maul was very good.

We will need to be much tighter next weekend.

Thought the ref let them away with some very cynical play: should have been a couple more cards for dangerous hits. Was very quick to blow us up. That turnover penalty for them where the 6 was kneeling on the ground at a ruck was ridiculous. Why are the assistant refs there?
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby joooooe » November 17th, 2019, 9:47 am

tomthefan wrote:Also employing someone to offer expert analysis who has never played rugby to a
standard anywhere near Heineken cup level is a bit problematic in at least a couple of ways.
It smacks of tokenism and also these experts can come across as a bit desperate to show
how much they know. Finally women's voices just don't work as well as men's in being intelligible
over crowd noises unless they've had a 40 a day habit for more than a decade. They have to shout,
there's currently a woman football commentator on 5live who sounds like Spitting Image's Margaret Thatcher.


Do you realise you sound like Ron Burgundy proclaiming "I'm a man, who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain."?

Fiona Coughlan captained UL, UL Bohs, Leinster, The Barbarians and Ireland, winning 4 intervarsity leagues, 4 intervarsity cups, 11 AIL titles, the first ever win by a Barbarians team (against Munster), was selected in 4 World Cup squads, playing in three, captaining Ireland to a grand slam in 2013 and our first ever wins over England, France and New Zealand. She has captained Leinster to three inter provincial titles. As to her views in the men's game, she has been on World Rugby's panel to select World Player of the Year (she has also been on the equivalent panel for the women's game).

If she seems "desperate to show how much she knows" about rugby it is probably because she knows more about rugby than every contributor on this site combined and because she is working in an area (sports broadcasting) of near-toxic masculinity, and, with people like you listening any attempt to voice an opinion beyond meek acquiescence is probably "desperate".

She was part of a commentary team with Ryle Nugent, the former schoolboy swimmer for Blackrock who, after being appointed Head of Sport for RTÉ, appointed himself as a commentator for Ireland's big games. He possesses one of the most annoying voices in broadcasting, and yet you were annoyed by the pitch and tone of Fiona Coughlan, one of the most highly-decorated players at the RDS yesterday (Healy and Sexton probably push her close) and now an insightful and informed broadcaster. Go you.
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 17th, 2019, 9:59 am

joooooe wrote:
tomthefan wrote:Also employing someone to offer expert analysis who has never played rugby to a
standard anywhere near Heineken cup level is a bit problematic in at least a couple of ways.
It smacks of tokenism and also these experts can come across as a bit desperate to show
how much they know. Finally women's voices just don't work as well as men's in being intelligible
over crowd noises unless they've had a 40 a day habit for more than a decade. They have to shout,
there's currently a woman football commentator on 5live who sounds like Spitting Image's Margaret Thatcher.


Do you realise you sound like Ron Burgundy proclaiming "I'm a man, who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain."?

Fiona Coughlan captained UL, UL Bohs, Leinster, The Barbarians and Ireland, winning 4 intervarsity leagues, 4 intervarsity cups, 11 AIL titles, the first ever win by a Barbarians team (against Munster), was selected in 4 World Cup squads, playing in three, captaining Ireland to a grand slam in 2013 and our first ever wins over England, France and New Zealand. She has captained Leinster to three inter provincial titles. As to her views in the men's game, she has been on World Rugby's panel to select World Player of the Year (she has also been on the equivalent panel for the women's game).

If she seems "desperate to show how much she knows" about rugby it is probably because she knows more about rugby than every contributor on this site combined and because she is working in an area (sports broadcasting) of near-toxic masculinity, and, with people like you listening any attempt to voice an opinion beyond meek acquiescence is probably "desperate".

She was part of a commentary team with Ryle Nugent, the former schoolboy swimmer for Blackrock who, after being appointed Head of Sport for RTÉ, appointed himself as a commentator for Ireland's big games. He possesses one of the most annoying voices in broadcasting, and yet you were annoyed by the pitch and tone of Fiona Coughlan, one of the most highly-decorated players at the RDS yesterday (Healy and Sexton probably push her close) and now an insightful and informed broadcaster. Go you.


:happy clapper: :happy clapper: :happy clapper:
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Peg Leg » November 17th, 2019, 11:07 am

johng wrote:Women never get listened to unless they deliberately lower the pitch of their voice. Sounde ridiculous but is a well known fact.

Millennia of conditioning.
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby enby » November 17th, 2019, 11:15 am

joooooe wrote:
tomthefan wrote:Also employing someone to offer expert analysis who has never played rugby to a
standard anywhere near Heineken cup level is a bit problematic in at least a couple of ways.
It smacks of tokenism and also these experts can come across as a bit desperate to show
how much they know. Finally women's voices just don't work as well as men's in being intelligible
over crowd noises unless they've had a 40 a day habit for more than a decade. They have to shout,
there's currently a woman football commentator on 5live who sounds like Spitting Image's Margaret Thatcher.


Do you realise you sound like Ron Burgundy proclaiming "I'm a man, who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain."?

Fiona Coughlan captained UL, UL Bohs, Leinster, The Barbarians and Ireland, winning 4 intervarsity leagues, 4 intervarsity cups, 11 AIL titles, the first ever win by a Barbarians team (against Munster), was selected in 4 World Cup squads, playing in three, captaining Ireland to a grand slam in 2013 and our first ever wins over England, France and New Zealand. She has captained Leinster to three inter provincial titles. As to her views in the men's game, she has been on World Rugby's panel to select World Player of the Year (she has also been on the equivalent panel for the women's game).

If she seems "desperate to show how much she knows" about rugby it is probably because she knows more about rugby than every contributor on this site combined and because she is working in an area (sports broadcasting) of near-toxic masculinity, and, with people like you listening any attempt to voice an opinion beyond meek acquiescence is probably "desperate".

She was part of a commentary team with Ryle Nugent, the former schoolboy swimmer for Blackrock who, after being appointed Head of Sport for RTÉ, appointed himself as a commentator for Ireland's big games. He possesses one of the most annoying voices in broadcasting, and yet you were annoyed by the pitch and tone of Fiona Coughlan, one of the most highly-decorated players at the RDS yesterday (Healy and Sexton probably push her close) and now an insightful and informed broadcaster. Go you.



Well said. I do believe that there is some tokenism at work in the "balancing" of some panels of pundits, Coughlan's contribution is invariably insightful and enlightening for the viewer. She was far better than Nugent ( who at least is infinitely less irritating than that idiot Robson) yesterday and is a better co-commentator than the likes of the dull Birch or, going back in time, Ralph Keyes and the revered Popey.
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Pilotman123 » November 17th, 2019, 11:17 am

tingman wrote:Ryle Nugent is a pain in the hole.

No he’s not, he’s my favorite commentator
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 17th, 2019, 11:29 am

Pilotman123 wrote:
tingman wrote:Ryle Nugent is a pain in the hole.

No he’s not, he’s my favorite commentator

Birds of a feather :twisted:
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby tomthefan » November 17th, 2019, 11:43 am

joooooe wrote:
tomthefan wrote:Also employing someone to offer expert analysis who has never played rugby to a
standard anywhere near Heineken cup level is a bit problematic in at least a couple of ways.
It smacks of tokenism and also these experts can come across as a bit desperate to show
how much they know. Finally women's voices just don't work as well as men's in being intelligible
over crowd noises unless they've had a 40 a day habit for more than a decade. They have to shout,
there's currently a woman football commentator on 5live who sounds like Spitting Image's Margaret Thatcher.


Do you realise you sound like Ron Burgundy proclaiming "I'm a man, who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain."?

Fiona Coughlan captained UL, UL Bohs, Leinster, The Barbarians and Ireland, winning 4 intervarsity leagues, 4 intervarsity cups, 11 AIL titles, the first ever win by a Barbarians team (against Munster), was selected in 4 World Cup squads, playing in three, captaining Ireland to a grand slam in 2013 and our first ever wins over England, France and New Zealand. She has captained Leinster to three inter provincial titles. As to her views in the men's game, she has been on World Rugby's panel to select World Player of the Year (she has also been on the equivalent panel for the women's game).

If she seems "desperate to show how much she knows" about rugby it is probably because she knows more about rugby than every contributor on this site combined and because she is working in an area (sports broadcasting) of near-toxic masculinity, and, with people like you listening any attempt to voice an opinion beyond meek acquiescence is probably "desperate".

She was part of a commentary team with Ryle Nugent, the former schoolboy swimmer for Blackrock who, after being appointed Head of Sport for RTÉ, appointed himself as a commentator for Ireland's big games. He possesses one of the most annoying voices in broadcasting, and yet you were annoyed by the pitch and tone of Fiona Coughlan, one of the most highly-decorated players at the RDS yesterday (Healy and Sexton probably push her close) and now an insightful and informed broadcaster. Go you.


She clearly has the experience to be able to fulfill the role of expert co-commentator for the highest level of WOMEN'S rugby, at least for an Irish audience, then.
She's less qualified, however, to fulfill that role for the Heineken cup than any random player from Division 2C of the AIL. Yet if any of those were in the role, people would be going WTF, despite the fact that they play the game to a far higher standard than she ever has.
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 17th, 2019, 11:50 am

tomthefan wrote:
joooooe wrote:
tomthefan wrote:Also employing someone to offer expert analysis who has never played rugby to a
standard anywhere near Heineken cup level is a bit problematic in at least a couple of ways.
It smacks of tokenism and also these experts can come across as a bit desperate to show
how much they know. Finally women's voices just don't work as well as men's in being intelligible
over crowd noises unless they've had a 40 a day habit for more than a decade. They have to shout,
there's currently a woman football commentator on 5live who sounds like Spitting Image's Margaret Thatcher.


Do you realise you sound like Ron Burgundy proclaiming "I'm a man, who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain."?

Fiona Coughlan captained UL, UL Bohs, Leinster, The Barbarians and Ireland, winning 4 intervarsity leagues, 4 intervarsity cups, 11 AIL titles, the first ever win by a Barbarians team (against Munster), was selected in 4 World Cup squads, playing in three, captaining Ireland to a grand slam in 2013 and our first ever wins over England, France and New Zealand. She has captained Leinster to three inter provincial titles. As to her views in the men's game, she has been on World Rugby's panel to select World Player of the Year (she has also been on the equivalent panel for the women's game).

If she seems "desperate to show how much she knows" about rugby it is probably because she knows more about rugby than every contributor on this site combined and because she is working in an area (sports broadcasting) of near-toxic masculinity, and, with people like you listening any attempt to voice an opinion beyond meek acquiescence is probably "desperate".

She was part of a commentary team with Ryle Nugent, the former schoolboy swimmer for Blackrock who, after being appointed Head of Sport for RTÉ, appointed himself as a commentator for Ireland's big games. He possesses one of the most annoying voices in broadcasting, and yet you were annoyed by the pitch and tone of Fiona Coughlan, one of the most highly-decorated players at the RDS yesterday (Healy and Sexton probably push her close) and now an insightful and informed broadcaster. Go you.


She clearly has the experience to be able to fulfill the role of expert co-commentator for the highest level of WOMEN'S rugby, at least for an Irish audience, then.
She's less qualified, however, to fulfill that role for the Heineken cup than any random player from Division 2C of the AIL. Yet if any of those were in the role, people would be going WTF, despite the fact that they play the game to a far higher standard than she ever has.


I think you need to get past the identity to get to the content here Tom, she was good in her own right.
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 17th, 2019, 11:56 am

Agree on Coughlan, it's why I never want to hear Lancaster or Joe Schmdit commentating either.

I was happy enough with the game really. It wasn't a vintage performance but there was always going to be a lack of cohesion and we never looked in trouble and had the bonus point wrapped up early. There were some brilliant individual performances as well with Ringrose and Josh in particular. Thought Healy, Larmour and Sexton (who looked quick tbf) were really good as well. ROL started really well and Kelleher had a brilliant game. I was a bit disappointed with Ruddock but that was the only real negative individually.

We messed up a few moves and were a bit sloppy at times but I liked how we didn;t panic when we messed things up and looked sharp enough (comfort in chaos) to find a way out.

I remember we used to say that if Shaggy played well then Leinster and Ireland played well. Now I think it's if Josh is getting on the ball and linking play.
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby tomthefan » November 17th, 2019, 12:16 pm

Good point, it's not just by playing, you can also be credible if you've coached at the top level.
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Twist » November 17th, 2019, 12:26 pm

tomthefan wrote:Good point, it's not just by playing, you can also be credible if you've coached at the top level.


I don’t understand why you need to have done either to be credible. I consider Murray Kinsella credible, and I’d be very interested to hear the contributions of anyone who does analysis for any team at the top level.
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Twist » November 17th, 2019, 12:27 pm

joooooe wrote:
tomthefan wrote:Also employing someone to offer expert analysis who has never played rugby to a
standard anywhere near Heineken cup level is a bit problematic in at least a couple of ways.
It smacks of tokenism and also these experts can come across as a bit desperate to show
how much they know. Finally women's voices just don't work as well as men's in being intelligible
over crowd noises unless they've had a 40 a day habit for more than a decade. They have to shout,
there's currently a woman football commentator on 5live who sounds like Spitting Image's Margaret Thatcher.


Do you realise you sound like Ron Burgundy proclaiming "I'm a man, who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain."?

Fiona Coughlan captained UL, UL Bohs, Leinster, The Barbarians and Ireland, winning 4 intervarsity leagues, 4 intervarsity cups, 11 AIL titles, the first ever win by a Barbarians team (against Munster), was selected in 4 World Cup squads, playing in three, captaining Ireland to a grand slam in 2013 and our first ever wins over England, France and New Zealand. She has captained Leinster to three inter provincial titles. As to her views in the men's game, she has been on World Rugby's panel to select World Player of the Year (she has also been on the equivalent panel for the women's game).

If she seems "desperate to show how much she knows" about rugby it is probably because she knows more about rugby than every contributor on this site combined and because she is working in an area (sports broadcasting) of near-toxic masculinity, and, with people like you listening any attempt to voice an opinion beyond meek acquiescence is probably "desperate".

She was part of a commentary team with Ryle Nugent, the former schoolboy swimmer for Blackrock who, after being appointed Head of Sport for RTÉ, appointed himself as a commentator for Ireland's big games. He possesses one of the most annoying voices in broadcasting, and yet you were annoyed by the pitch and tone of Fiona Coughlan, one of the most highly-decorated players at the RDS yesterday (Healy and Sexton probably push her close) and now an insightful and informed broadcaster. Go you.


I don’t question Fiona Coghlan’s bona fides for a second but I can’t take any argument seriously that invokes “toxic masculinity”
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby tomthefan » November 17th, 2019, 12:38 pm

Twist wrote:
tomthefan wrote:Good point, it's not just by playing, you can also be credible if you've coached at the top level.


I don’t understand why you need to have done either to be credible. I consider Murray Kinsella credible, and I’d be very interested to hear the contributions of anyone who does analysis for any team at the top level.


That's a fair point, I wonder if he was ever asked?
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby Oldschool » November 17th, 2019, 12:40 pm

A scrappy performance tbh.
Game management wasn't great.
Just after we scored our BP, a random thought occurred that 3 converted tries would win it for Benetton and two would get them a LBP and a TBP.
Queue McGrath tap peno brain fart, Benetton controlled the next 13 mins, scored a try and but for some resolute defence it could have been more.
Had they a second try in that period then you'd wonder what might have happened.
The point of the exercise is that when you're in control play the %s, no heroics.
The peno in question was about ten meters from their 22.
Should have gone for the corner or even kick the points.
Instead McGrath decided to go for a tap about 7/8 meters behind the peno mark and didn't even make the gain line.
It's that sort of shyte that loses games.
As for the lady commentary, don't rate her particularly but she's way better than Ferris or Keyes (tg we don't have to listen to him anymore), has manners (doesn't interupt ad nauseum) and doesn't seem to have an agenda.
She plays a conservative game but hopefully as she gets more experience she'll start to add value.
As an aside please bring back Joanne Cantwell and send Daire packing, please, please.
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Re: HEC R1 Leinster v Treviso Sat 3.15 BT Sports

Postby johng » November 17th, 2019, 12:48 pm

You must have a blindspot on "toxic masculinity" so.

Lots of it about.
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