Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby Jonny tight lips » November 24th, 2019, 10:09 am

FourMasters wrote:A tough away win in France in poor conditions against their league leaders, I'm delighted with that. Our defense alone was worth watching.

My main gripe was the camera work failing to follow open play. Notable screw-ups were when Sexton's penalty came off the posts, and at least once when Lyon took a quick throw-in. I think they were showing a replay on the throw-in.


It was like watching the Pro14 on Eirsport
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby wixfjord » November 24th, 2019, 1:47 pm

Thought Johnny's approach to Carley was good yesterday. Calm but making his points too.

Some of the maul pens called against us were a bit dodgy.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby riocard911 » November 24th, 2019, 1:56 pm

FourMasters wrote:A tough away win in France in poor conditions against their league leaders, I'm delighted with that. Our defense alone was worth watching.

My main gripe was the camera work failing to follow open play. Notable screw-ups were when Sexton's penalty came off the posts, and at least once when Lyon took a quick throw-in. I think they were showing a replay on the throw-in.


Or cutting away from the ongoings on the pitch to show one or other Lyon coach muppet gesticulating madly from the sideline, because that's oh so important!!!!
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby desperado » November 24th, 2019, 2:29 pm

wixfjord wrote:Thought Johnny's approach to Carley was good yesterday. Calm but making his points too.

Some of the maul pens called against us were a bit dodgy.
I think you mean Pearce. If Jonny was making points to Carley yesterday; OMahony might not have been happy [WINKING FACE]

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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 24th, 2019, 4:58 pm

A great result. A reasonable team performance. Outstanding contributions from JVdF, Rhys, J10 and Fardy. Very acceptable displays from Kelleher & Deegan. Some international players a long way from those standards.

Leo confessed to being nervous ar various points, but this was a totally professional European performance against a team used to beating opponents on their home turf, supported by a very one-eyed crowd. Leinster's first quarter display squeezed the noise out of their chests and the Officials were largely able to officiate without excessive spectator pressure.

Leinster's attacking game was far from perfect and James Ryan and Robbie Henshaw, in particular, made less than optimum decisions in their distribution after high quality line breaks. Luke McGrath looked woefully out of touch with the parts of his game which normally compensate for the quality of his passing. Tadgh Furlong had a decidedly average game, particularly at scrum time and the arrival of Andrew Porter reminded onlookers that "impact off the bench" can often meant a lot more than just eye-catching mid-field breaks. Porter's impact in the set-pieces was such that he must now represent a real challenger for the green jeesey with No 3 on the back.

Leinster forthcoming back-to-back encounters with Northampton could define the outcome of Pool 1. Lyon won't fancy arriving at the Aviva in mid-January and expending anymore than minimal energy in a European game when they have a Top14 game against Toulon at home on the 25th Jan.

Treviso will be an attractive venue for a large party of Leinster supporters in the final Pool game and Coach Crowley will have his eyes firmly fixed on his winnable Pro14 fixtures, by the time that Leinster European game comes around.

Thus all the Leinster coaching energy will now focus on getting a positive result in Franklin Gardens in a fortnight and this Lyon game was excellent preparation for that encounter. N'hampton Coach Boyd will have been made aware of the importance of next week's encounter against neighbours Leicester and hopefully they are distracted more by this game than we are by a successive weekend of travel, this time for a Pro14 encounter against Glasgow.

Either way, a very important three weeks coming up and Cullen, Lancaster & Contepomi, and new man McBride, must be very satisfied with the commitment and defensive discipline thus far, even if the attacking flair has, as yet, only been visibly sporadically.

James Lowe still looks half a metre slower that last year but Larmour and Ringrose look as explosive as ever. When all of the moving parts in Leinster's attack are properly harnessed, we will be a very formidable challenger for the trophy.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby alanair » November 24th, 2019, 6:15 pm

[1. Lyon won't fancy arriving at the Aviva in mid-January and expending anymore than minimal energy in a European game when they have a Top14 game against Toulon at home on the 25th Jan.


I dont think Lyon will be expending any energy at all at the Aviva
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 25th, 2019, 5:45 pm

Just to begin to close this chapter. Lyon home results this Season averages over their previous 6 home games (All Top14):
Averages
Scored: 37 points
Conceded: 12 points
Tries scored: 4 Tries
Tries Conceded: 1 Try

The opponents were: Stade, Toulouse, Brive, Bordeaux, Pau and La Rochelle. Plenty of high profile teams there, even if some were without RWC stars.

Rugbyrama summed up the Lyon perspective as follows:

"As a consolation, the troops of Pierre Mignoni and David Gerard registered their first point in the Club's history in the Champions Cup by snatching a defensive bonus. A lesser evil against the relentless realism of the quadruple champions of Europe"
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2019, 10:02 am

Another mixed bag from Leinster.
Game could have gone either way.
Both teams could have got TBPs and yet we got a 6-13 scoreline.
The conditions and handling errors probably accounted for the low scoreline.
However it's still fair to say that Leinster are not firing on all cylinders yet.
RK isn't ready for the knackers yard just yet and will give us the necessary depth in the the back three for the rest of the season.
Larmour is starting to mature nicely.
Lowe is on a bit of a low for him.
Ringrose, whatever it says on the tin tbh.
Henshaw so far so good, a nice steady return to form would do nicely.
Sexton, good but not great, it's noticeable that he's been used a lot for dummy moves.
McGrath, don't know what the problem is but we're seeing a lot of brain farts lately.
Healy still the man
Kelleher providing superb depth at 2
Furlong something is not quite right but what that something is, no idea.
Ryan is Ryan
Toner returing to 2018 fitness and form.
Ruddock Mr Reliable.
VDF is playing some of his best ever rugby.
Deegan/Doris eye of needle territory.
Main concern is that our half backs are underperforming.
They are not bringing the kind of control required.
The problem is age in one instance and a consistently bad pass. Neither of which seems likely to improve.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby domhnallj » November 27th, 2019, 1:28 pm

Re. Furlong - the commentators made mention of a back problem more than once. If he was carrying a niggle it would explain a lot. Whether it goes anyway to explaining why he was risked in such a crucial game is another matter.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby desperado » November 27th, 2019, 2:16 pm

Oldschool wrote:Another mixed bag from Leinster.
Game could have gone either way.
Both teams could have got TBPs and yet we got a 6-13 scoreline.
The conditions and handling errors probably accounted for the low scoreline.
However it's still fair to say that Leinster are not firing on all cylinders yet.
RK isn't ready for the knackers yard just yet and will give us the necessary depth in the the back three for the rest of the season.
Larmour is starting to mature nicely.
Lowe is on a bit of a low for him.
Ringrose, whatever it says on the tin tbh.
Henshaw so far so good, a nice steady return to form would do nicely.
Sexton, good but not great, it's noticeable that he's been used a lot for dummy moves.
McGrath, don't know what the problem is but we're seeing a lot of brain farts lately.
Healy still the man
Kelleher providing superb depth at 2
Furlong something is not quite right but what that something is, no idea.
Ryan is Ryan
Toner returing to 2018 fitness and form.
Ruddock Mr Reliable.
VDF is playing some of his best ever rugby.
Deegan/Doris eye of needle territory.
Main concern is that our half backs are underperforming.
They are not bringing the kind of control required.
The problem is age in one instance and a consistently bad pass. Neither of which seems likely to improve.



I see you're going to continue beating this drum. He was MOTM; in a dogfight. Of course MOTM is subjective mostly; VDF IMO probably should have got it. Age is not something that can 'improve', aging is the passing of time. McGrath's pass is not the main problem, his option taking, or overall decision making at key moments - seems to be.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby fourthirtythree » November 27th, 2019, 2:41 pm

Particularly when Johnno has been making breaks recently and showing a nice turn of pace.

It's one of those "if I keep saying it long enough it will be true" things that economists use to convince themselves of their predictive ability despite all the evidence.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 27th, 2019, 2:41 pm

domhnallj wrote:Re. Furlong - the commentators made mention of a back problem more than once. If he was carrying a niggle it would explain a lot. Whether it goes anyway to explaining why he was risked in such a crucial game is another matter.


I haven't read it but I believe Joe mentions in his book that Furlong was a major doubt for the NZ game and Dave Cahill mentioned recently that he has a back issue so presumably it's been there for quite a while.

If that's the case then I really don't see why we wouldn't just rest him until it's right. Porter is playing really well and Bent is great backup, perfect time to give him a break IMO.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2019, 4:31 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:Particularly when Johnno has been making breaks recently and showing a nice turn of pace.

It's one of those "if I keep saying it long enough it will be true" things that economists use to convince themselves of their predictive ability despite all the evidence.

Funnily enough I seem to remember you making a similar point already. It's going to be sooner rather than later.
For what it's worth it doesn't give me any pleasure in saying it but it is time for a gradual handover.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby fourthirtythree » November 27th, 2019, 5:02 pm

You have to precisely define "sooner" and "later" for the prediction to mean anything more substantial than "I predict that our shared experience of time will continue in a forward direction".

As I said: economic prediction.

Do you value something on its tendancy and trajectory or on its current value? That's a real question.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2019, 6:23 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:You have to precisely define "sooner" and "later" for the prediction to mean anything more substantial than "I predict that our shared experience of time will continue in a forward direction".

As I said: economic prediction.

Do you value something on its tendancy and trajectory or on its current value? That's a real question.

Sooner is this season.
Later is next season.
That "real question" you asked me about - frankly I haven't a clue what you are talking about but it looks like a heads you win, tails I lose type of question.
Anyway sooner or later I'm going to be right.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby fourthirtythree » November 27th, 2019, 7:51 pm

So we should be thinking of phasing him out next season then. Which is probably how it is unless someone grabs the Jersey off him and Leinster are good at dealing with that. Nucifora isn't.


The question is whether you are a chartist or a fundamentalist. Neither is right. Neither is wrong. It's why economics is useless at making predictions. Sooner or later x will crash. Do I buy or sell now?
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2019, 8:23 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:So we should be thinking of phasing him out next season then. Which is probably how it is unless someone grabs the Jersey off him and Leinster are good at dealing with that. Nucifora isn't.


The question is whether you are a chartist or a fundamentalist. Neither is right. Neither is wrong. It's why economics is useless at making predictions. Sooner or later x will crash. Do I buy or sell now?

My prediction is sooner.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby artaneboy » November 27th, 2019, 8:59 pm

hugonaut wrote:Also, Cooney should be moved to Leinster to partner Sexton "for the good of Irish rugby".

This! Even if it’s meant as a wry joke...


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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2019, 9:14 pm

artaneboy wrote:
hugonaut wrote:Also, Cooney should be moved to Leinster to partner Sexton "for the good of Irish rugby".

This! Even if it’s meant as a wry joke...


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Cooney's pass alone would improve Sexton's chances of making it later too.
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Re: Lyon v Leinster R2 HCC 23 Nov 2019

Postby Twist » November 27th, 2019, 10:59 pm

And he’d be another playmaker for opposition to focus on, for Leinster & Ireland....
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