Leinster Team Of The Decade...

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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby joooooe » December 3rd, 2019, 4:45 pm

Let's try and settle this so.
A wee survey, takes about 20 seconds:
https://s.surveyplanet.com/mKIUNaVg
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby paddyor » December 3rd, 2019, 6:58 pm

ronk wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:Not gonna lie: I was wondering why people were stuck on three European Cups!


I'm guessing that 2009 was toI long ago.

And how does BOD not make the team of the decade?

Most of the positions are fairly locked down because of the length of time someone was dominant.

There's a Furlong-Ross debate, a Ryan/Hines v Cullen (has to be Leo), Jennings-Ruddock (tough), D'Arcy-Ringrose (maybe) and Fitzgerald-McFadden (I'm leaning Luke)

I marked on the basis 08/09 was last decade and BOD has less caps than Ringrose this decade. As I said Ringrose came into a team at it's nadir and helped right the ship which is a different expereince than BODs in the early part of the decade(and yes I know about the 00s).

The thing about a lot of those debates is that while 10 years doesn't seem like a long time ago in terms of how the game is reffed it's an age. A lot of the skullduggery that made Hines and Cullen so effective would be subject to TMO review.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby paddyor » December 3rd, 2019, 7:24 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:
paddyor wrote:Statisitically in terms of appearances and then trophies for the 2010-2020 period I'd imagine something like

Healy 168(211-29-13-1) 3HEC, 1 ACC, 4P14
Cronin 177 2HEC, 1 ACC, 4P14

Ross 152 3HEC, 1ACC, 2P14 Retired 2017
Dev 206(239-2-4-6-21) 3HEc, 1ACC, 4P14
Cullen 106(18+27+18+23+20) 2 HEC, 1ACC, 2P14 Retired 2014
Ruddock 3HEC, 1 ACC, 4P14
SOB 3HEC, 1 ACC, 4P14 Soon to retire if rumours are to be believed
Heaslip Retired 2017 3HEC, 1 ACC, 4P14
Reddan Retired 2016 2HEC, 1 ACC, 2P14

Sexton 3HEC, 1 ACC, 4P14
Nasewa Retired 2018 3HEC, 1 ACC, 3P14
D'arcy Retired 2015 2HEC, 1 ACC, 2P14

Ringrose 1HEC, 2P14
McFadden 3HEC, 1 ACC, 4P14
R. Kearney 3HEC, 1 ACC, 4P14


It's a good team, you could make a better team I'm sure but those are the lads with the body of work. Massively favours guys who bridged from the early to the late part of the decade. There's kind of three teams (peak- trough- peak to keep it simple).
.........
Looking at that team, it seems we quite possibly are heading for another trough with the bolded soon to retire(maybe for the best). There's guys there to replace them but most don't have the body of work their predecessors do.


Like the logic of your selection and the underlying rationale. However, somewhat disagree with the last sentence. Many of those in your selection had little or no back catalogue by the time it became evident that they would be strong contenders in any all-time ranking.

One of the key factors now is how proficent the guys in, and coming out of, the Academy are from the start. They have had a better grounding at National under-age and in the Academy and have largely trained with the senior players from age 19 or 20. Couple that with time in the Sub-Academy and we're almost getting 'fully formed' pros from the Academy.

When you look at Kelleher, Baird, Connors, Doris, Frawley, the O'Briens etc. the line is fairly extraordinary and we appear to be losing fewer of the really talented players to injury during their development.

So, lots of confidence that if there is to be a trough, it will be short-lived, or bridged by some of the experienced guys hanging tough for at extra year or two - Ferg, J10, Dev, RK etc.

Ryan and Ringrose are already in my 'all-time list'. Only RK, BO'D, SO'B & Jamie were in that list by age 23, the others in it joined by dint of their consistent brilliance. It's a high bar but that's my bias. However, the parameters for inclusion in this selection are clearly set out and your selection fits the bill well.

I’m not saying we need to panic but I don’t think we can lose +1000 caps of experience and expect an immaculate handover. There’s a good base of players there that we won’t be hitting a cliff edge and there’s plenty of good prospects too. The last trough included 2 HEC SF and a Pro14 final and I think we’re in a better position this time.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby Oldschool » December 3rd, 2019, 9:00 pm

Of the 6 highlighted players.
Next Season.
Healy, Cronin and Dev will still be good enough to be in the first choice 23 if required.
McFadden is relatively easy to replace.
Keenan makes RKs retirement look less onerous.
Sexton's decline will be the main reason for a dip if it happens. It's very difficult to replace a player of his quality, playing the position he does, seamlessly.
However we have a superb coaching team so hopefully any blip will be short lived. There are already signs that adjustments are being made/attempted.
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby joooooe » December 3rd, 2019, 9:55 pm

Oldschool wrote:Of the 6 highlighted players.
Next Season.
Healy, Cronin and Dev will still be good enough to be in the first choice 23 if required.
McFadden is relatively easy to replace.
Keenan makes RKs retirement look less onerous.
Sexton's decline will be the main reason for a dip if it happens. It's very difficult to replace a player of his quality, playing the position he does, seamlessly.
However we have a superb coaching team so hopefully any blip will be short lived. There are already signs that adjustments are being made/attempted.


I bet if we went back 11 years there would be similar discussions on this forum about our first choice 10 getting on and there being no obvious replacement apart from a 24 year old who had proven an able deputy but hardly international class.

Anyone who says they knew in December 2008 that Johnny Sexton would go on to have the career he is having is called Mrs Sexton.

Perhaps all Ross Byrne needs is to be the main man? We'll only know when that happens.
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby ronk » December 3rd, 2019, 10:42 pm

Sexton, Kearney and McFadden don't play that much for us anyway and they've all missed important stretches.

They will be missed (eventually), but other players are doing the jobs of a distinguished list of now retired players.

What's awkward about the depth in those positions isnt that we didnt develop talent underneath, its that the talent didn't wait around down the depth chart.

McGrath, Murphy, Madigan, Carbery being prime examples.

Sexton may have developed further than many expected. But I dont think I was alone in not being worried about him for the HC Final. Ross Byrne is in that category. He's developing into a strong leader.
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby fourthirtythree » December 4th, 2019, 10:34 am

ronk wrote:Sexton, Kearney and McFadden don't play that much for us anyway and they've all missed important stretches.

They will be missed (eventually), but other players are doing the jobs of a distinguished list of now retired players.

What's awkward about the depth in those positions isnt that we didnt develop talent underneath, its that the talent didn't wait around down the depth chart.

McGrath, Murphy, Madigan, Carbery being prime examples.

Sexton may have developed further than many expected. But I dont think I was alone in not being worried about him for the HC Final. Ross Byrne is in that category. He's developing into a strong leader.


Sexton won the league for us the year before (albeit with Contempomi playing his better position -12 - beside him) I would have picked them that way for the semi final (and final) anyway. That people subscribe to the notion that Sexton was something of a surprise package in '09 is a symptom of a problem for us. Some people, and the media noise in particular which is influenced by a decade of nonsense from down South and hasn't grown out of it yet, think that if a player isn't in a European Cup game they aren't important. Sexton would have left us had the current hubbub been around. And it would have been to his, ours, and Ireland's detriment. While the grass might seem greener I don't think leaving Leinster has actually served any player particularly well bar Tadhg Beirne. Conway has finally got there but wasted years. Wasted talent.
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby Oldschool » December 4th, 2019, 11:32 am

fourthirtythree wrote:
ronk wrote:Sexton, Kearney and McFadden don't play that much for us anyway and they've all missed important stretches.

They will be missed (eventually), but other players are doing the jobs of a distinguished list of now retired players.

What's awkward about the depth in those positions isnt that we didnt develop talent underneath, its that the talent didn't wait around down the depth chart.

McGrath, Murphy, Madigan, Carbery being prime examples.

Sexton may have developed further than many expected. But I dont think I was alone in not being worried about him for the HC Final. Ross Byrne is in that category. He's developing into a strong leader.


Sexton won the league for us the year before (albeit with Contempomi playing his better position -12 - beside him) I would have picked them that way for the semi final (and final) anyway. That people subscribe to the notion that Sexton was something of a surprise package in '09 is a symptom of a problem for us. Some people, and the media noise in particular which is influenced by a decade of nonsense from down South and hasn't grown out of it yet, think that if a player isn't in a European Cup game they aren't important. Sexton would have left us had the current hubbub been around. And it would have been to his, ours, and Ireland's detriment. While the grass might seem greener I don't think leaving Leinster has actually served any player particularly well bar Tadhg Beirne. Conway has finally got there but wasted years. Wasted talent.

Contempomi was never more than a stop gap ten, although a great 12.
Sexton was going no where.
Conway moved to a club that played 10 man rugby all the time, ie the one club he shouldn't have gone to, he'd have done well at the Scarlets.
Beirne moved to a club that played 15 man rugby, he'd have thrived in either environment but moreso at the Scarlets.
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby wixfjord » January 1st, 2020, 3:47 pm

Nice video put together by LR.

'20 of the most iconic Leinster Rugby tries, 2000-2019'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPXdGGwI7AQ

(Some of the footage from the pre-09 games is shocking quality!
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 1st, 2020, 6:23 pm

Always wondered how Will Green managed to be in position to score that try. He wasn't really in position to secure the ruck if BOD had been tackled initially and ended up being the only one in support so I wonder if he just knew that BOD would break through and ended up being the only one in support. Doesn't seem right that he'd be in position but the rest of the pack would be miles behind him.
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby blockhead » January 2nd, 2020, 1:22 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPXdGGwI7AQ

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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby Xanthippe » January 2nd, 2020, 2:17 am

wixfjord wrote:Nice video put together by LR.

'20 of the most iconic Leinster Rugby tries, 2000-2019'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPXdGGwI7AQ

(Some of the footage from the pre-09 games is shocking quality!


Can’t believe Mike Ross’ score against Wasps wasn’t included!
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby mildlyinterested » January 2nd, 2020, 2:42 am

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Ryan
6. Ruddock
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Nacewa
12. Darcy
13. BoD
14. McFadden
15. Kearney
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby Ruckedtobits » January 2nd, 2020, 8:23 am

mildlyinterested wrote:1. Healy
2. Cronin / Struass
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Ryan
6. Ruddock / Leavy
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Nacewa
12. Darcy
13. BoD
14. McFadden / Horgan
15. Kearney


At the top of their game, would consider these three as genuine alternatives.
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby joooooe » January 2nd, 2020, 10:55 am

joooooe wrote:Let's try and settle this so.
A wee survey, takes about 20 seconds:
https://s.surveyplanet.com/mKIUNaVg


The results are in, though I'm not sure if 89 responses necessarily represents the views of Leinster fans. Nevertheless, Leinster's team of the decade 2010-2019, as voted by (a small number of) you, is as follows:

Loosehead: Cian Healy (97.8% of the vote)

Hooker: Sean Cronin (68.5%)

Tighthead: Tadhg Furlong (68.5%)

Second row (2): Devin Toner (29.3%), Leo Cullen (25.1%)

Flankers (2): Sean O'Brien (44.6%), Shane Jennings (18.6%)

Number 8: Jamie Heaslip (98.9%)

Scrum half: Eoin Reddan (89.9%)

Out half: Johnny Sexton (97.8%)

Centres (2): Gordon D'Arcy (34.9%), Brian O'Driscoll (46.3%)

Back 3 (3): Isa Nacewa (31.3%), Shane Horgan (16.6%), Rob Kearney (28.7%)

Coach: Joe Schmidt (78.7%)

Interesting to note:
- the "Survey Planet" software only allowed for first preference votes, so in multiple member constituencies such as second row and back 3 we are left like the British electorate just picking the person with the most votes. I love a bit of PR-STV...

- the term "decade" is of course a human construct and so the boundaries placed on this survey (and thread) are completely arbitrary; however, I admire the mental play doh moulding of time that resulted in 2 votes for Bernard Jackman (who retired from rugby 5 months into the decade), the 1 vote for Felipe Contepomi (who left in 2009), and the 2 votes for Michael Cheika (who, like Jackman, left in 2010).

- some positions were close-run. I'll post the pie charts below, which show that a bench for this XV would certainly contain (among others) Richardt Strauss, Mike Ross, James Ryan (with notable mentions for Brad Thorne and Nathan Hines), Dan Leavy (notable mention: Rhys Ruddock), and Gary Ringrose/Luke Fitzgerald. Perhaps we could find space on the coaching staff for Cullen and Lancaster too?

- Kudos to the loyalty/blinkers of the respondent who gave 1 vote to Jack Conan and 1 vote to Ross Byrne while every other respondent went for Heaslip and Sexton. Interpretation/identification shall be left to my fellow sailors on this increasingly choppy babbling brook.

Happy New Year/Decade, all!
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby FLIP » January 2nd, 2020, 11:19 am

Xanthippe wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Nice video put together by LR.

'20 of the most iconic Leinster Rugby tries, 2000-2019'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPXdGGwI7AQ

(Some of the footage from the pre-09 games is shocking quality!


Can’t believe Mike Ross’ score against Wasps wasn’t included!


It's unfair to all the other tries. Everybody knows that's the greatest Leinster try of all time.
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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby joooooe » January 2nd, 2020, 11:41 am

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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby joooooe » January 2nd, 2020, 11:42 am

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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby joooooe » January 2nd, 2020, 11:44 am

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Re: Leinster Team Of The Decade...

Postby joooooe » January 2nd, 2020, 11:45 am

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