ad nauseam wrote:FFS We have always had one or two teams consistently in the knockout stages of the European Cup. Given that we've only three teams in the goddamned tournament to begin with, that ain't a bad return. What's proposed seems to be based on an impression that it's only English and French teams that get to the knockout stages. We might be the only Celtic nation that has teams in the knockout stages at the moment but in five years' time it might be Welsh or Scottish. The Celtic league is a good way of bringing on talent and improving teams. It mightn't be the prettiest of rugby at times but it's no more boring and frequently more interesting than the much hyped GPL or the French domestic league. That it hasn't attracted corporate interest has nothing to do with anything being inherently wrong with the CL itself. Let it run a few years and see.
Thats just plain wrong
I agree that the current format should change, and that things are far too cushy for the CL teams. How long is it since the scots had a representative in the QF? Have the italians ever? And the welsh - one every two years at most? The ovious way to do this is to have the following format:
5 qualifiers from the French league
5 qualifiers from the English league
6 qualifiers from expanded celtic league (to include the Italians).
I would decide the CL qualifiers as possible:
Top club from each of the four nations to go through.
Top two from any nation, not to be top from their own nation to go through.
Bottom of these six teams to play off against highest team in table not to finish in 6 qualification spots, over two legs, and winner to go through.
This last rule would be there so that in a situation where you had a top 5 in the CL of Leinster, Munster, Ospreys, Edinburgh and Llanelli, with Ulster 6th and Treviso the highest Italian team at 10th, they would have to earn their place by beating ulster over two legs.
I eckon this would be a good system, as it would produce 4 groups of 4 team for the HEC, with the top 2 from each progressing to the quarter finals. And if the Irish teams were up to it (as they are this season), we could still have 3 representatives in the group stages, with less whipping boys in the competition.
ad nauseam wrote:FFS We have always had one or two teams consistently in the knockout stages of the European Cup. Given that we've only three teams in the goddamned tournament to begin with, that ain't a bad return. What's proposed seems to be based on an impression that it's only English and French teams that get to the knockout stages. We might be the only Celtic nation that has teams in the knockout stages at the moment but in five years' time it might be Welsh or Scottish. The Celtic league is a good way of bringing on talent and improving teams. It mightn't be the prettiest of rugby at times but it's no more boring and frequently more interesting than the much hyped GPL or the French domestic league. That it hasn't attracted corporate interest has nothing to do with anything being inherently wrong with the CL itself. Let it run a few years and see.
Thats just plain wrong
I agree that the current format should change, and that things are far too cushy for the CL teams. How long is it since the scots had a representative in the QF? Have the italians ever? And the welsh - one every two years at most? The ovious way to do this is to have the following format:
5 qualifiers from the French league
5 qualifiers from the English league
6 qualifiers from expanded celtic league (to include the Italians).
I would decide the CL qualifiers as possible:
Top club from each of the four nations to go through.
Top two from any nation, not to be top from their own nation to go through.
Bottom of these six teams to play off against highest team in table not to finish in 6 qualification spots, over two legs, and winner to go through.
This last rule would be there so that in a situation where you had a top 5 in the CL of Leinster, Munster, Ospreys, Edinburgh and Llanelli, with Ulster 6th and Treviso the highest Italian team at 10th, they would have to earn their place by beating ulster over two legs.
I eckon this would be a good system, as it would produce 4 groups of 4 team for the HEC, with the top 2 from each progressing to the quarter finals. And if the Irish teams were up to it (as they are this season), we could still have 3 representatives in the group stages, with less whipping boys in the competition.
In fact on re-reading this system Ireland/Wales could have 4 representatives in the HEC if they were good enough. I definitely think it would be better and fairer than the curent system. This 'best 2nd place' system reflects moe on the quality of opposition in the group than on the team themselves. A staraight system of two going through from each group would be fairer.
French league president Serge Blanco has warned European Rugby Cup (ERC), the organisers of the Heineken Cup, that his teams could boycott the competition in the 2007/8 season, according to reports from France.
In a long interview with France's Midi-Olympique newspaper, Blanco said that he wanted a change in the way the cup was organised.
The discussions over how the qualification to the European Cup - and the shareholding between the six countries involved - will be shared from 2007 onwards have begun, with the current format in place until June of 2007 only.
Currently, the share of representation in the competition is set up on the basis of the Paris accord, with two representatives from each country on the board of ERC, but Blanco, who is supported in English quarters as well, has suggested that English and French clubs who hold the big money should take over the organisation of the competitions after 2007.
The French also want the qualification from the Celtic League reduced, so that only six teams can qualify for the Heineken Cup directly.
"We could boycott the European Cup," Blanco was quoted as saying.
"The clubs will not lose money in the event of a boycott over the season 2007/8. We can do without the European Cup.
"We would take our losses, and we will gain dates for the calendar."
The French have support from England, and apparently from Italy, but not from the Celtic Nations, with Ireland particularly opposed to the proposed changes - originally proposed by Premier Rugby - describing them as "insulting". A meeting is scheduled for April 11 to try and resolve the differences, with the Irish - who have clubs perennially present in the quarter-finals at the very least - seen as the main obstacle to change.
"In ten years of European competition, there have been five English victories, four French and one Irish," Blanco continued.
"This system with the British workers profiting from leading powers [us] is not agreeable.
It is possible that the French and English will get their way this time. Both Blanco and Premier Rugby were angry at the Welsh representation in the competition after the re-structuring of Welsh rugby in 2003 had all four Welsh regions appearing in the tournament, while England and France had to make do with only half of their teams appearing.
ERC communications manager John Corcoran said that it was not a matter for ERC to deal with until the discussions over the future had been completed, but did not anticipate any major changes.
"The discussions between the shareholders of European Rugby Cup are ongoing, but are of a private nature. ERC is not in a position to reveal the content of those discussions," he said.
"We will carry out the tournament on the basis put forward by the shareholders."
But Blanco is adamant that the French must have more of a say in the tournament.
"The clubs and the League want to be the players in a competition which French teams play an important role in and is now not managed appropriately to us," he said.
While Blanco is supported by Premier Rugby, there is opposition from the RFU, who think that an increase in the Heineken Cup profile will damage their own tournaments, which generate more revenue for the Union.
Heineken Cup matches currently generate on £350,000 ($611,800) per weekend, far less than the estimated £1m ($1.7m) per Premiership weekend. The difference in weekend revenue between the Top 14 and Heineken Cup is similar.
This is also a bugbear to Blanco, who has long made clear his objections to any form of Heineken Cup expansion, and now appears to be seizing on the opportunity of the Paris Accord expiry to even up the revenue differences between the Top 14 and Heineken Cup, and either turn the Heineken Cup's success to his clubs' advantage, or leave it altogether.
Blanco spoke to this site six months ago about the future of European rugby, and said at the time that he wanted no expansion of the tournament.
"It [the Heineken Cup] is starting to be a success here. We have no problem if it grows," he said at the time.
He then grew slightly indignant.
"As long as it doesn't increase the number of games. We don't want the number of games to increase," he continued.
"The competition brings nothing to French rugby in terms of money. Four years ago, the clubs had more money than now.
"If we started with the Top 16, we would earn more money than with the H-Cup. We want to play the H-Cup, but not more games. It would just add to the number of matches, but bring nothing financially to the clubs."
In the interview on Monday, as he did in the interview with this site last October, Blanco put forward his idea for a world club tournament, involving the top clubs and provinces, to take place once every two years. But he railed at the ERC board, who he said would never be flexible enough to listen to such an idea.
"The omnipotence of the board which chokes everything is finished," he said.
"We do not want to submit to the will of the ERC Board which refuses to be acountable to us.
"We are ready to go face-to-face and we have arguments to put forward...up to now we have been very well-behaved children, but that is finished now.
"There will be a revolution if they do not listen to us...I am now sounding the alarm before it is too late."
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
