Irelands Best 2nd row stays with Leinster

Duff Paddy · Post by **Duff Paddy** » February 8th, 2006, 12:41 pm

sewa wrote:
epaddy wrote:Sewa I know you hatred for Heaslip but Leinster do have good forwards Heaslip, MAl , Gleeson and have proveided half of the Irish pack over a recent decent spell. Reggie, Byrne, Mal, Gleeson
Hatred isnt the correct word. He may shy away from the hard work in tight but that dosent mean I even dislike him.

I take it you haven't seen much of Heaslip then. He mostly plays the loose game for Leinster but he's well able for the dirty work.

CM · Post by CM » February 8th, 2006, 1:35 pm

He may shy away from the hard work in tight

Watch Leinster v Bath in the RDS and tell me Heaslip shyed away from the dirty work.

sewa · Post by **sewa** » February 8th, 2006, 1:49 pm

If you play in the forwards, you'll know that it's anything but nonsense. But anyway Sewa, you got your wish of a Munster pack against Italy last Saturday and look where it got us. [/quote]

Actually we didnt get a full Munster pack. For some reason unbeknownst to any of us he has dropped Irelands greatest ever #8 in order to accomadate Easterby who's form is awful. Without him we were completely devoid of leadership. For some reason we also seemed to have no discernible gameplan.

sewa · Post by **sewa** » February 8th, 2006, 1:51 pm

CM wrote:
He may shy away from the hard work in tight
Watch Leinster v Bath in the RDS and tell me Heaslip shyed away from the dirty work.

Watch Bath vs Leinster. Both Emmet Byrne and Heaslip were protecting the side of a ruck and were blasted out of the way by one opposition ball carrier for the try. That day apart from the aussie the leinster back row went MIA.

Leinsterman · Post by **Leinsterman** » February 8th, 2006, 1:54 pm

Eh rrrrright..... I'd tend to say that the injury of Jowitt had quite a lot to do with that. We were annihilating the Bath pack until he went off.

Duff Paddy · Post by **Duff Paddy** » February 8th, 2006, 1:57 pm

sewa wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:If you play in the forwards, you'll know that it's anything but nonsense. But anyway Sewa, you got your wish of a Munster pack against Italy last Saturday and look where it got us.
Actually we didnt get a full Munster pack. For some reason unbeknownst to any of us he has dropped Irelands greatest ever #8 in order to accomadate Easterby who's form is awful. Without him we were completely devoid of leadership. For some reason we also seemed to have no discernible gameplan.

Nah Vic Costello has retired.

Piquet · Post by **Piquet** » February 8th, 2006, 2:02 pm

Duff Paddy wrote: Nah Vic Costello has retired.

Vic was a good Number 8, not a great Number 8.

CM · Post by CM » February 8th, 2006, 2:03 pm

Both Emmet Byrne and Heaslip were protecting the side of a ruck and were blasted out of the way by one opposition ball carrier for the try

Oh god, you don't actually want me to sift through every game and find an instance when X, Y and Z player have not managed to stop a try, do you? BOD missed 6 tackles against Glasgow (and three the other day), does that make him a bad player? You'd prefer to use one example rather than a consistent performance throughout a match to back up your argument? And if you actually looked at the game properly you'd notice that Heaslip got through a huge amount of work that day.

sewa · Post by **sewa** » February 8th, 2006, 2:11 pm

BOD missed 6 tackles against Glasgow (and three the other day), does that make him a bad player? [/quote]

I'd certainly question his inclusion when Trimble is sitting on the bench now that you mention it. He does not look anywhere near match fit.

CM · Post by CM » February 8th, 2006, 2:12 pm

I'd certainly question his inclusion when Trimble is sitting on the bench now that you mention it.

Now I know you're fishing.

sewa · Post by **sewa** » February 8th, 2006, 2:14 pm

Leinsterman wrote:Eh rrrrright..... I'd tend to say that the injury of Jowitt had quite a lot to do with that. We were annihilating the Bath pack until he went off.

You might want to look the meaning of annihalating in the dictionary there. The packs were about 50 : 50 with Gleeson being the only forward who really impressed. It was in the backs you beat them.

CM · Post by CM » February 8th, 2006, 2:22 pm

It was in the backs you beat them.

The backs may have made the final incisions but the forwards gave them the space to do it in. Both Gleeson and Heaslip supported well all day and this is where the difference lies at international level. The Munster backrow don't support their backs in the same way. Comparing Leamy to Heaslip and Wallace to Gleeson you come out with a very close call and I don't disagree with either of the Munster players being on the Irish team when comparing the relevant players. However when you look at the understanding Gleeson, especially, and Heaslip have with our centres it's not that hard to figure out that we should primarily have the Munster tight five (if DOC is there too then that's fine) with Gleeson and Heaslip flanked by Leamy. So we get the go forward generated by the mainly superior Munster tight five backed up by Leamy (who is the Jowitt figure) but we have 7 and 8 who know how to support the two players whom we base our game around.

Makes sense to me.

Leinsterman · Post by **Leinsterman** » February 8th, 2006, 2:24 pm

sewa wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:Eh rrrrright..... I'd tend to say that the injury of Jowitt had quite a lot to do with that. We were annihilating the Bath pack until he went off.
You might want to look the meaning of annihalating in the dictionary there. The packs were about 50 : 50 with Gleeson being the only forward who really impressed. It was in the backs you beat them.

Dunno if you'll find it though - you'd need to be able to spell it.

Seriously, we had the Bath pack in our pocket until Jowitt went off. They barely threatened us and bar a few hiccups in the lineout, we more than comfortably dealth with a pack that dominates the England set-up. They couldn't set up any platform and couldn't find a way through us until late on and seeing that that was their primary gameplan, I'd call that an annihilation.

TrueBlue · Post by **TrueBlue** » February 8th, 2006, 4:20 pm

The backs may have made the final incisions but the forwards gave them the space to do it in. Both Gleeson and Heaslip supported well all day and this is where the difference lies at international level. The Munster backrow don't support their backs in the same way. Comparing Leamy to Heaslip and Wallace to Gleeson you come out with a very close call and I don't disagree with either of the Munster players being on the Irish team when comparing the relevant players. However when you look at the understanding Gleeson, especially, and Heaslip have with our centres it's not that hard to figure out that we should primarily have the Munster tight five (if DOC is there too then that's fine) with Gleeson and Heaslip flanked by Leamy. So we get the go forward generated by the mainly superior Munster tight five backed up by Leamy (who is the Jowitt figure) but we have 7 and 8 who know how to support the two players whom we base our game around.

Makes sense to me.

Couldn't agree more

sewa · Post by **sewa** » February 9th, 2006, 10:27 am

CM wrote:
I'd certainly question his inclusion when Trimble is sitting on the bench now that you mention it.
Now I know you're fishing.

As you said yourself he is missing tackles. Any truth to the rumour there renaming the Suez canal the Darcy / O Driscoll channel?

go_on_the_poni · Post by **go_on_the_poni** » February 9th, 2006, 1:23 pm

ah you must be referring to yesterday when the suez was blocked letting nothing through
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4694326.stm

sewa · Post by **sewa** » February 9th, 2006, 1:43 pm

go_on_the_poni wrote:ah you must be referring to yesterday when the suez was blocked letting nothing through
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4694326.stm

No I was referring to every other day of the year when it was letting everything through no matter how slow and cumbersome.

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » February 9th, 2006, 1:48 pm

sewa wrote:
go_on_the_poni wrote:ah you must be referring to yesterday when the suez was blocked letting nothing through
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4694326.stm
No I was referring to every other day of the year when it was letting everything through no matter how slow and cumbersome.

Of course they had to cover the half back channel too, cost Strings and Rog are totally inept in this area.
By the way, i don't think its players who are th issue at Leinster - the whole in the center was also there when Shaggy and Lewie played there.....something wrong with the system methinks....

sewa · Post by **sewa** » February 9th, 2006, 2:57 pm

But you are accepting there is a problem in midfield defence. Trimble might be the answer.

CM · Post by CM » February 9th, 2006, 2:58 pm

Trimble might be the answer.

Like he was when Ulster played Saracens?