Stephen Jones' Lions XV

[Comer Toes]

I think one of the screening questions for any journalist position with the ST is ‘how much do dislike the paddies?’ Rod Liddle’s even worse.

I would say it’s embarrassing for SJ to have that team published without the 2 lads but he’s come out with worse and will continue to do so. Journalism is not a strong point of our beloved sport. Lots of the over-the-hill parochial clowns. Far too little technical analysis out there. Gerry and Mark Keohane (saffa) are two of the best ones.

[Broken Wing]

why the hell would anyone read what Guscott or Jones have to say.

Credit where credit's due. Quotes from the same article.

On Lion's Captain:

You have massive reservations because when the s*** has hit the fan for Ireland, O’Driscoll has been the one to pull them out, and not O’Connell.

On Lion's No. 13:

The easy one for me to pick is O’Driscoll.

Brian O’Driscoll has got to that stage of his career where he needs to be challenged. In a Lions context there are going to be players around him who aren’t going to worship the ground he walks on and will challenge him. It will bring out the best in him because he is a champion.

[shezba]

Here's an extract from the discussion between Guscott, Kenny Logan, Laurence Dallaglio, David Walsh and Stephen Jones about BOD. Saw it on their website yesterday and it's part of a longer discussion picking the whole team. Logan is great here.

JG: The easy one for me to pick is O’Driscoll.

KL: Definitely.

SJ: I wouldn’t have him in my Test team.

KL: Why would you not have him? Honestly, I am worried about you writing in the paper now.

SJ: I’ll carry on as best as I can.

KL: Come on, you can’t put that in there. You cannot write that.

LD: Brian O’Driscoll has got to that stage of his career where he needs to be challenged. In a Lions context there are going to be players around him who aren’t going to worship the ground he walks on and will challenge him. It will bring out the best in him because he is a champion.

DW: He was the reason Ireland beat England. His defence was awesome.

KL: Jonesy, you need to call yourself a taxi and come back tomorrow.

[Isaac4leinster]

I can't think of any torture that would be too much for SJ. There should be some form of rugby 'rendition' for people like him.

He has a hard-on for Henson, this will never change. He dislikes Ireland, this will never change. He too far gone to be helped. Hook is relatively reasonable in comparison.

[intothewest]

Stephen Jones, in "proving what a tw@t I am" shocker...the man continues to plumb the depths of journalism. No POC or BOD on the lions team!!! My God.

[jezzer]

OK, my Lions Test XXII (subject to multiple changes between now and first game):

15. Armitage
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Flutey
11. Williams
10. Flood
9. Blair

1. Jenkins
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. AW Jones
5. POC
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Subs:
Murray
Mears
Hines
Ferris
Care
Jones
Kearney

[fourthirtythree]

Yeah, don't tar the others there with the same brush. I read it as it happens and while Jones just looked a tool most of the others called it like they saw it. We all have players we cut slack for.

To be fair on Henson, if it was just his rugby rather than his irritating way, we mightn't have a grand slam today. If he had taken the kick instead of Jones he had a better chance of getting it. It's his loss that he can't pull it together personally. He still is a fantastic player. Just hasn't worked out how to be a reasonable human being yet.

[shezba]

To be fair on Henson, if it was just his rugby rather than his irritating way, we mightn't have a grand slam today. If he had taken the kick instead of Jones he had a better chance of getting it. It's his loss that he can't pull it together personally. He still is a fantastic player. Just hasn't worked out how to be a reasonable human being yet.

Henson said he didn't want to take the kick because he missed his first one and he was feeling some pain in his back. I'd qualify what you said - he is a fantastic talent rather than a fantastic player because he doesn't deliver consistently. Not even premiership footballers need to have their egos massaged as much as he does.

[fourthirtythree]

To be fair on Henson, if it was just his rugby rather than his irritating way, we mightn't have a grand slam today. If he had taken the kick instead of Jones he had a better chance of getting it. It's his loss that he can't pull it together personally. He still is a fantastic player. Just hasn't worked out how to be a reasonable human being yet.

Henson said he didn't want to take the kick because he missed his first one and he was feeling some pain in his back. I'd qualify what you said - he is a fantastic talent rather than a fantastic player because he doesn't deliver consistently. Not even premiership footballers need to have their egos massaged as much as he does.

Of course you are right there: a fantastic player plays for the team etc. He simply has fantastic ability which he hasn't consistently transferred to play.

[tones]

Stephen Jones, in "proving what a tw@t I am" shocker...the man continues to plumb the depths of journalism. No POC or BOD on the lions team!!! My God.

Indeed, at this point I think they're the only 2 Test certainties.

My Lions would be;

Armitage
S Williams,
BOD
Shanklin (close call with Flutey)
Bowe
S Jones
Blair (possibly, but no outstanding candidates)
Heaslip
Wallace
Ferris
POC
Wyn-Jones
Jones
Best
Jenkins.

[Comer Toes]

What’s the story with Armitage lads?? Kearney and Byrne are better, Byrne considerably so.

While the differences between positions 4 and 5 are small, I’m not sure that Wyn Jones and POC would compliment eachother – I would be looking at Hines/ DOC to do the donkeywork beside POC.

We should have 14 guys on that plane based on being grand slam winners and also having the Heineken cup residing on our shores. I get the feeling, however, that we will get shafted. Hayes should make the squad but may not, ditto Leamy, D’Arcy and both hookers. I’ve a bad feeling Ferris may well be the WTF omission. O’Leary, Stringer, Horan will lose out but probably don’t deserve to travel.

I would go with the following team for the first test at the moment;

Byrne, Bowe, BOD, Flutey, Williams, Jones, Peel
Jenkins, Flannery, Murray, Hines, POC, Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip

[tones]

What’s the story with Armitage lads?? Kearney and Byrne are better, Byrne considerably so.

While the differences between positions 4 and 5 are small, I’m not sure that Wyn Jones and POC would compliment eachother – I would be looking at Hines/ DOC to do the donkeywork beside POC.

We should have 14 guys on that plane based on being grand slam winners and also having the Heineken cup residing on our shores. I get the feeling, however, that we will get shafted. Hayes should make the squad but may not, ditto Leamy, D’Arcy and both hookers. I’ve a bad feeling Ferris may well be the WTF omission. O’Leary, Stringer, Horan will lose out but probably don’t deserve to travel.

I would go with the following team for the first test at the moment;

Byrne, Bowe, BOD, Flutey, Williams, Jones, Peel
Jenkins, Flannery, Murray, Hines, POC, Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip

Don't think Byrne has been on form, and Kearney hasn't consistently shwon what he can done while at the same time while the tournament has gone on Armitage looks very good. Having said that, I think diplomacy got a hold of me and wouldn't mind either Byrne or Kearney there.

[jezzer]

Armitage is the form FB. Sackey may well get in on the wing, given he's a Wasps man. I thought Flood was excellent on Sat and is a dark horse for the 10 jersey. Went with Blair cos the Scots will need at least one starter under Geech.

Kearney will be lucky to make the bench I think. Paterson could well be the utility sub (or even - gulp - a starter) for his incredible kicking rate. Byrne and Armitage have more strike power. Kearney suits the aerial game but the SH sides don't use the ELVs as negatively as we do.

Hayes might not go at all but of the tight heads out there he's probably the best at everything other than scrummaging. Lineout is a massive weapon in the current game so I went with him and Fla.

AW Jones is a great mobile player with huge graft and defence. A good 2 jumper as well.

[Oldschool]

the standard of rugby journalism really is execrable - there's no way that someone who clearly knows so little about the game could ever hold down an equivalent job covering football. Jones is one of these complex-ridden, self-loathing celts who crop up in rugby circles in England (Ian Robertson of the BBC is another) and it amazes me that the dross he churns out gets published. I remember before the last lions tour he 'called' the lions squad the week before it was announced, and even given the cr@p squad that actually was picked, his selection was just laughable... so one reason for comfort is that he isn't very good at reading the runes (in fact I could safely widen that statement, to say 'he isn't very good, at anything')

I'd say that the lions squad is likely to be based around the core of the Irish team - for no other reason than that Ireland's defence was so consistently excellent - the only team who had our line under any serious pressure was France, after that according to the official stats England won the ball in our 22 9 times, Italy 3 times, Scotland 3 times and Wales 5 times (our respective stats were 12, 47, 29 and 36...) and the main reason for that was BOD (the best drift defender at 13 in the world by a mile) and our back row, so for me they all start, as does POC (obviously), Fla, and probably 2 on the wing from Bowe, Fitzgerald and Kearney, with Byrne likely to shade it at 15..

You just named the Devil and his serpent in this post.
Two of the most consistently anti-Irish pundits I have ever had the misfortune to listen to or read.
Not sure which is the worst.

[Oldschool]

Stephen Jones is a prize fool and a gusset merchant.

Leave Jeremy alone!

[intothewest]

Armitage? Jeez lads i know he's had a few ok games but I really wouldn't have him anywhere near the XXII...well not the 15 anyway. Should travel cos he's versatile and good kicking game, but on top form, Byrne is better right now. Its pure conjecture of course, but at the moment I would have:

15. Byrne (better than Kearney or Armitage IMO)
14. Bowe (not many contenders)
13. O'Driscoll (Duh)
12. Henson (if Geech can sort his head out)
11. Kearney (not best position, but I wouldnt have Williams, even though he prob will play)
10. Jones (no standout really..Wilko if fit, may start!)
9. Phillips (again, no standout..Peel when fit is best scrum-half in B&I IMO)
1. Sheridan (showed signs of moving his @rse recently..has all the attributes when going well)
2. Flannery (again, no standout..Flan did well in Cardiff..lineout may swing it for him)
3. Murray (better than competition in scrum)
4. O'Connell (Duh)
5. Alun-Wyn Jones (a superb athlete and at 6 8' could be needed in lineout)
6. Ferris (a big bruising Bok type 6..perfect)
7. Wallace (or Williams..its 50/50..id go for Wallace as Boks don't have McCaw!)
8. Ryan Jones. (Heaslip unlucky, but Jones showed glimpses on #Sat that 8 is his best position..a fearsome ball carrier with 1 good Lions tour already)

Bench: Ford, Gethin Jenkins, DOC,Croft, Ellis, O'Gara, Armitage

Totally off top of my head, and could be way off but what the hell.

[suisse]

15. Byrne (better than Kearney or Armitage IMO) I'd say way better tbh. A lot of people here think that Byrne had an average 6N, but I thought Kearney started well, before fading badly. Not sure if the lack of real counter-attacking from the England game was a personal choice, or a coaching decision. His defense is rock solid, catching too, and ball presentation, but he makes annoying mistakes which hamper his game. The last matches, Kidney wiped Kearney off immediately after a horribly bad unforced error in both games. Room for improvement.
14. Bowe (not many contenders) True, but that shouldn't detract from what was a really good tournament. The yellow card and peno try against the All Blacks, plus te hesitant definding that day, seem a million miles away
13. O'Driscoll (Duh)
12. Henson (if Geech can sort his head out) Lions tours are invariably lost on a range of mistakes, and this could be the same. Henson would the worst man to have in the side if things fall apart. Must be Shanklin
11. Kearney (not best position, but I wouldnt have Williams, even though he prob will play) Better chance of Fitzgerald because of his excellent defense.
10. Jones (no standout really..Wilko if fit, may start!)
9. Phillips (again, no standout..Peel when fit is best scrum-half in B&I IMO)
1. Sheridan (showed signs of moving his @rse recently..has all the attributes when going well)
2. Flannery (again, no standout..Flan did well in Cardiff..lineout may swing it for him)
3. Murray (better than competition in scrum)
4. O'Connell (Duh)
5. Alun-Wyn Jones (a superb athlete and at 6 8' could be needed in lineout)
6. Ferris (a big bruising Bok type 6..perfect)
7. Wallace (or Williams..its 50/50..id go for Wallace as Boks don't have McCaw!)
8. Ryan Jones. (Heaslip unlucky, but Jones showed glimpses on #Sat that 8 is his best position..a fearsome ball carrier with 1 good Lions tour already) Hmmmm, well...........

Better team than most I have seen. Some truely laughable selections on club teams' individual message boards. Loius Deacon starting a test being one of them. And Matt Banahan. And Nick Abendenon. And Tom Palmer.

[Oldschool]

Lads, lads, lads, you just don't get it.
This is about selecting the Bristish and Irish Lions team.
We're Irish, we pick the Irish players for the team, Stephen and Ian pick the UK players.
On that basis my Lions team would be.
Court
Flannery,
Hayes,
O'Callaghan (Cap
O'Connell
Ferris
Heaslip
Wallace
Stringer
Sexton
Earls
D'Arcy
Fitzgerald
Bowe
Kearney

My Bench
Hayes, Best, O'Kelley, Ryan, O'Leary, O'Gara, O'Driscoll.

[Oldschool]

Lads, lads, lads, you just don't get it.
This is about selecting the Bristish and Irish Lions team.
We're Irish, we pick the Irish players for the team, Stephen and Ian pick the UK players.
On that basis my Lions team would be.
Court
Flannery,
Hayes,
O'Callaghan (Cap
O'Connell
Ferris
Heaslip
Wallace
Stringer
Sexton
Earls
D'Arcy
Fitzgerald
Bowe
Kearney

My Bench
Hayes, Best, O'Kelley, Ryan, O'Leary, O'Gara, O'Driscoll.

[simonno6]

Lads, lads, lads, you just don't get it.
This is about selecting the Bristish and Irish Lions team.
We're Irish, we pick the Irish players for the team, Stephen and Ian pick the UK players.
On that basis my Lions team would be.
Court
Flannery,
Hayes,
O'Callaghan (Cap
O'Connell
Ferris
Heaslip
Wallace
Stringer
Sexton
Earls
D'Arcy
Fitzgerald
Bowe
Kearney

My Bench
Hayes, Best, O'Kelley, Ryan, O'Leary, O'Gara, O'Driscoll.

Ah Oldschool - your as bad as that eejit Stephen Jones!