Lions team for the weekend.

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Danthefan
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by Danthefan »

The Lions were dreaful today :?

Lee Byrne about the only player who put his hand up and claimed his position. Roberts was ok, as was Bowe. ROG had a mixed bag but was more good than bad imo, set up some tries and scored one of his own, place kicking was excellent. Earls unfortunately was awful, possibly the fact it was his first Lions cap got to him, if he doesn't impress in his next game he's out of the reckoning for the tests. Shane Williams was very ordinary and I think Luke Fitz has a great chance of getting in the test side at this rate. Backrow were outplayed, there was nobody securing ball at the ruck at all and Wallace didn't really control at the base of the scrum. Lineout consisted of throwing to POC only, that isn't going to work for the whole tour. Mass substitutions saved the day but a shambles of a start. The Saffers are laughing I'm sure, especially with what the Bulls just did to the Cheifs.
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by orfeo »

Earls unfortunately was awful ,possibly the fact it was his first Lions cap got to him
Can't dis-agree with that,felt sorry for the lad, possibly trying too hard instead of keeping it simple.Luke Fitz definitely looking good for test spot ,early days yet though.
Worrying to give up so many tries to a side that had less preparation time than we had. Other than getting gametime at altitude hard to see any positives ( Byrne excepted)
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Avenger
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by Avenger »

Danthefan wrote:Earls unfortunately was awful, possibly the fact it was his first Lions cap got to him, if he doesn't impress in his next game he's out of the reckoning for the tests.
Nerves probably got the better of him. The early knock on from the quickly taken penalty wouldn't have helped him settle.
Thought he settled a bit in the second half.
He'll get another chance but will need a big improvement.
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hugonaut
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by hugonaut »

re: Earls

No-one is saying that he's a bad player or that he lacks talent, but his performance today was absolutely appalling: a real case of first-night nerves. I don't really think that he came into it in the second half either, he just stopped making the glaring errors that were the signature of his first 40 minutes. He literally couldn't put a foot right and really let himself down.

It's never nice to see a young player play under his ability due to pressure – I remember in the recent past that Nick de Luca of Edinburgh had an absolutely horrific first couple of games for Scotland after really shining in the Heineken Cup and Magner's League, including a couple of performances against Drico where he more than held his own. However, his debut for Scotland was an absolute howler, full of knock-ons, unintentional obstructions, forward passes and interceptions. In fairness, Frank Hadden kept him on for the next two games, but while things didn't get any worse, they didn't get any better either, and as a result, he's gone backwards. Similarly Barry Murphy of Munster absolutely stank up the pitch against Argentina in those pre-RWC07 matches, looked like he didn't belong out there.

Earls needs to get put back on the horse if he's going to be in a position to contribute positively to the tour. Hopefully he'll get another run out from the bench on Wednesday so he can do his best to put this game behind him; however, it's going to be really difficult not to try to hard, which was half his problem today. I'd like to think he can bounce back and show his true abilities, reward the confidence of the coaches who selected him to tour and give a good account of himself.
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by thecoolfreak »

Earls was bad , no doubt, but he wasn't that bad. He made a few good tackles and one or two little breaks. he wasn't helped by the fact that the backs were getting some awful service from scrum half
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by hugonaut »

thecoolfreak wrote:Earls was bad , no doubt, but he wasn't that bad. He made a few good tackles and one or two little breaks. he wasn't helped by the fact that the backs were getting some awful service from scrum half
I don't know, I thought he was that bad. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that on yesterday's evidence, he was the worst player on the pitch - I can't think of another player who made as many errors, many of them absolutely unforced. Mike Blair had a bad game himself, but are you really blaming him for Earls' knock-on from the 5m penalty, the knock-on from Shane Williams' pass, the dropped catch, the knock-on in contact when attempting a 20/80 pass?

He didn't do himself justice out there. Making 'a few good tackles and one or two little breaks' is so far below of what he'd expect of himself, never mind what's expected of him by the team. He's a talented player, and hopefully he can put this performance behind him, but there's a serious amount of excuse-making and silver-lining finding going on.

Not trying to have a go at you CoolFreak, I just thought that Earls was really, really disappointing. It'll be a real test of character [which I sincerely hope and believe that he'll pass] to make a big contribution the next time he's on the pitch.
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by thecoolfreak »

hugonaut wrote:
thecoolfreak wrote:Earls was bad , no doubt, but he wasn't that bad. He made a few good tackles and one or two little breaks. he wasn't helped by the fact that the backs were getting some awful service from scrum half
I don't know, I thought he was that bad. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that on yesterday's evidence, he was the worst player on the pitch - I can't think of another player who made as many errors, many of them absolutely unforced. Mike Blair had a bad game himself, but are you really blaming him for Earls' knock-on from the 5m penalty, the knock-on from Shane Williams' pass, the dropped catch, the knock-on in contact when attempting a 20/80 pass?

He didn't do himself justice out there. Making 'a few good tackles and one or two little breaks' is so far below of what he'd expect of himself, never mind what's expected of him by the team. He's a talented player, and hopefully he can put this performance behind him, but there's a serious amount of excuse-making and silver-lining finding going on.

Not trying to have a go at you CoolFreak, I just thought that Earls was really, really disappointing. It'll be a real test of character [which I sincerely hope and believe that he'll pass] to make a big contribution the next time he's on the pitch.
I never said i was blaming him, I said he wasn't helped by the fact that the backs weren't getting good service. He never settled into the game and obviously made a number of mistakes. As O'Connell said it happens to everyone but unfortunately for Earls it happened on the first game of tour. While it may not have been as abvious the entire back row were every bit as bad as Earls. They failed to do their most basic job of securing ball at the breakdown. They were dominated by a team of about Connacht's standards in that area. Earls wasn't the only por performance out there. All I'm saying is that the guy deserves another chance before everyone starts jumping on his back
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hugonaut
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by hugonaut »

Agreed, the backrow were absolutely appalling, as were Simon Shaw and Matthew Rees. Would have appreciated a few higher camera angles to find out where the forwards were during the breakdown situations: I have the sneaking suspicion that the p¡ss-poor Wasps 3-pod tactic is making a comeback. If it gets found out and binned at this early stage, the tour will be more successful for it.

There's no way that they can seriously expect massive forwards like Sheridan, Adam Jones and Shaw to get back and forth across the pitch at altitude, and yet when you only commit 2 or 3 forwards to a ruck, you stand a real chance of losing the ball, getting penalised or, at best, creating poor possession. Having pods laced across the backline might work if you're guaranteed a quick clean out at rucks, but if you're not, there's simply no point in persisting with it. In contrast to that, they had a good amount of success with a number of mauls; hardly surprising when they picked a huge mauling tight five.

Regarding Earls, as I've said in my two previous posts, I hope he does get an immediate chance to come back and give a proper account of himself [which is looking less likely, as reports are coming in that he took a knock to the shoulder which may keep him out of the next squad]. He's a talented player, and that performance wasn't an indicator of his ability. I don't wish him any bad luck, and I don't begrudge him his place on the Lions. However, he just put in an absolutely [and very visibly] appalling performance: what are people supposed to do, just not mention it because he's from Ireland?

He got picked as a Lion, so surely he should be judged as a Lion, not just as a young lad filling in at centre for Munster because Rua Tipoki is injured. The latter attitude gives him no credit for his performances this season, which gave the coaching set-up the confidence in his abilities to select him for the squad. You'll have to take my word that I'm not someone who generally goes around mouthing off and saying "I just tell it like I see it", but I really thought that Earls suffered a serious attack of the heebie-jeebies and had as bad a debut as you can realistically have*. For a guy who was quite a contentious selection – certainly amongst the English, Scottish and Welsh media – it does neither him nor the manager who had final say on his selection any favours. It goes without saying that you want your bolters to shine, not freeze.



*Sorry, scratch that, I remember John McWeeney's Irish debut against the All Blacks in Lansdowne, 1996. Ugh. :oops:
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ror
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by ror »

What is going on here. Stop making excuses for earls. Its starting to sound like the munster message board where they are blaming everyone else including Sky Sports for showing replays. This clown is way out of his dept as I highlighted many times. You would not see a J6 player drop 4 balls in a row in fact in 25 years of playing I have never seen it. Get this geek out of there and bring in Hipkiss or Darcy.
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by Comer Toes »

ror wrote:What is going on here. Stop making excuses for earls. Its starting to sound like the munster message board where they are blaming everyone else including Sky Sports for showing replays. This clown is way out of his dept as I highlighted many times. You would not see a J6 player drop 4 balls in a row in fact in 25 years of playing I have never seen it. Get this geek out of there and bring in Hipkiss or Darcy.
Great post, make him the first Lions player to be put on a plane home after playing poorly in the first game. You're top notch for outside-the-box thinking it has to be said. What is this dept that you talk about by the way? Is that the Sales Dept? Accounting Dept maybe?
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by suisse »

ror wrote:What is going on here. Stop making excuses for earls. Its starting to sound like the munster message board where they are blaming everyone else including Sky Sports for showing replays. This clown is way out of his dept as I highlighted many times. You would not see a J6 player drop 4 balls in a row in fact in 25 years of playing I have never seen it. Get this geek out of there and bring in Hipkiss or Darcy.
This has got nothing to do with Munster. Keep the provincial rubbish out of the way. Earls is Irish first and foremost. You're talking about an Irish player there, remember.
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by ceemec »

ror wrote:What is going on here. Stop making excuses for earls. Its starting to sound like the munster message board where they are blaming everyone else including Sky Sports for showing replays. This clown is way out of his dept as I highlighted many times. You would not see a J6 player drop 4 balls in a row in fact in 25 years of playing I have never seen it. Get this geek out of there and bring in Hipkiss or Darcy.
The only thing that has made me cringe more than Earls knocking the ball on last weekend is your posting. Then again you are someone that in the past has given us the absolute beauties such as on hearing of Kidney's appointment describing it as "a disaster" and claiming that Luke Fitzgerald "can't tackle". Earls has gone from nothing to a Lion in 12 months. He's been a success at every level he's encountered so far. Lots of players experience jitters when they make a step up. He was quite nervy in his first HEC match against Montabaun this season but grew in confidence as the tournament continued and put in some very assured displays. Don't understand someone so desperately wanting an Irish player to fail that every time he makes a mistake they jump online and highlight it with glee. Not the finished article by a long shot but only a moron would ask that a player be sent home from a Lions tour for a bad 25 minutes. :clap:
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by orfeo »

ceemec wrote:
ror wrote:What is going on here. Stop making excuses for earls. Its starting to sound like the munster message board where they are blaming everyone else including Sky Sports for showing replays. This clown is way out of his dept as I highlighted many times. You would not see a J6 player drop 4 balls in a row in fact in 25 years of playing I have never seen it. Get this geek out of there and bring in Hipkiss or Darcy.
The only thing that has made me cringe more than Earls knocking the ball on last weekend is your posting. Then again you are someone that in the past has given us the absolute beauties such as on hearing of Kidney's appointment describing it as "a disaster" and claiming that Luke Fitzgerald "can't tackle". Earls has gone from nothing to a Lion in 12 months. He's been a success at every level he's encountered so far. Lots of players experience jitters when they make a step up. He was quite nervy in his first HEC match against Montabaun this season but grew in confidence as the tournament continued and put in some very assured displays. Don't understand someone so desperately wanting an Irish player to fail that every time he makes a mistake they jump online and highlight it with glee. Not the finished article by a long shot but only a moron would ask that a player be sent home from a Lions tour for a bad 25 minutes. :clap:
No it is not sounding like the munster message board but very much the very worst of the Leinster message board, but then to some he embodies a number of unforgivable flaws
(1) He is from Munster (2)He is a centre from Munster - the cheek of them (3) The mistaken notion that he is taking Darcy's place as if it was ever an either or choice .
It now turns out he sustained a shoulder injury in the first few minutes and played on , even so he still had a bad game but to call for his head as you have is extreme.
I must concur with ceemac -why do so many want a fellow Irishman to fail ??
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by Danthefan »

Another thing that makes no sense: either get behind all the Lions or none of them. Cut out the parochialism and get behind the Irish Lions? Nobody else sees a bit of a problem there?
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by orfeo »

Danthefan wrote:Another thing that makes no sense: either get behind all the Lions or none of them. Cut out the parochialism and get behind the Irish Lions? Nobody else sees a bit of a problem there?
apologies, Dan you are absolutely correct. I got carried away defending an irish lion because he is Irish , and it is parochialism , mea culpa .
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by ror »

ceemec wrote:
ror wrote:What is going on here. Stop making excuses for earls. Its starting to sound like the munster message board where they are blaming everyone else including Sky Sports for showing replays. This clown is way out of his dept as I highlighted many times. You would not see a J6 player drop 4 balls in a row in fact in 25 years of playing I have never seen it. Get this geek out of there and bring in Hipkiss or Darcy.
The only thing that has made me cringe more than Earls knocking the ball on last weekend is your posting. Then again you are someone that in the past has given us the absolute beauties such as on hearing of Kidney's appointment describing it as "a disaster" and claiming that Luke Fitzgerald "can't tackle". Earls has gone from nothing to a Lion in 12 months. He's been a success at every level he's encountered so far. Lots of players experience jitters when they make a step up. He was quite nervy in his first HEC match against Montabaun this season but grew in confidence as the tournament continued and put in some very assured displays. Don't understand someone so desperately wanting an Irish player to fail that every time he makes a mistake they jump online and highlight it with glee. Not the finished article by a long shot but only a moron would ask that a player be sent home from a Lions tour for a bad 25 minutes. :clap:
I could not care less where he is from. Irish players get more attention from these boards cause we know them better. You are quite wrong atbout Keiths sucess. As i pointed out before he has a hcup medal and a grandslam medal before he played in either tournament. The guy is not a worthy Lion which he displayed on Sat. he embarassed himself and us. If you look at the slatings he got on other message boards you will understand , that nobody thinks he should be there. I am not asking him to be sent home on foot of his Sat display, but more so that there is far better players out there and I dont know why he was picked?
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by Dave Cahill »

I must say, poorly as he played, Keith Earls most certainly did not embarass me! One might argue the merits of his selection, but hes not the first player to have a bad game, and he won't be the last ever. And I don't doubt that he will bounce back just fine.
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by Dublinner »

ror wrote:
ceemec wrote:
ror wrote:What is going on here. Stop making excuses for earls. Its starting to sound like the munster message board where they are blaming everyone else including Sky Sports for showing replays. This clown is way out of his dept as I highlighted many times. You would not see a J6 player drop 4 balls in a row in fact in 25 years of playing I have never seen it. Get this geek out of there and bring in Hipkiss or Darcy.
The only thing that has made me cringe more than Earls knocking the ball on last weekend is your posting. Then again you are someone that in the past has given us the absolute beauties such as on hearing of Kidney's appointment describing it as "a disaster" and claiming that Luke Fitzgerald "can't tackle". Earls has gone from nothing to a Lion in 12 months. He's been a success at every level he's encountered so far. Lots of players experience jitters when they make a step up. He was quite nervy in his first HEC match against Montabaun this season but grew in confidence as the tournament continued and put in some very assured displays. Don't understand someone so desperately wanting an Irish player to fail that every time he makes a mistake they jump online and highlight it with glee. Not the finished article by a long shot but only a moron would ask that a player be sent home from a Lions tour for a bad 25 minutes. :clap:
I could not care less where he is from. Irish players get more attention from these boards cause we know them better. You are quite wrong atbout Keiths sucess. As i pointed out before he has a hcup medal and a grandslam medal before he played in either tournament. The guy is not a worthy Lion which he displayed on Sat. he embarassed himself and us. If you look at the slatings he got on other message boards you will understand , that nobody thinks he should be there. I am not asking him to be sent home on foot of his Sat display, but more so that there is far better players out there and I dont know why he was picked?
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AidanSloan
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by AidanSloan »

I think it's worth looking at the season Earls had. Most of the play that brought him the high profile outside Ireland was playing in matches that Munster dominated, and while playing at 13 outside Mafi. Most of his exciting play came from broken play, 3rd, 4th phase, or more or after Mafi had crossed the gain line and put him in space. He hasn't been able to shine in tighter games. I questioned his big game temperament after the semifinal, I believe Munster could have been 2 tries ahead if his decision making had been better, and when he came face to face with BOD the gulf in class was clear. Earls has buckets of talent but still has a lot to learn. He is by no means the complete article but is a shining light for the future. I just hope he hasn't been thrown in to deep too soon, I sincerely hope he can bounce back(it was horrible to watch) But is he a Lion? This jury is still out.
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Re: Lions team for the weekend.

Post by waguser »

AidanSloan wrote: He is by no means the complete article but is a shining light for the future. I just hope he hasn't been thrown in to deep too soon, I sincerely hope he can bounce back(it was horrible to watch) But is he a Lion? This jury is still out.
At the risk of being facetious,
The jury is not out He is a lion and nothing can take it off him...
21 years of age, the experience will be great for him and I hope it helps his development as an Irish star of the future.
Some of the abuse here for him is as unwarranted as the cr@p Sexton has received elsewhere.

As for the poster who proclaimed to be embarrassed by him!!!!
jesus wept
get a life
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