D'Arcy called up

[Turnip Boy]

amazing player, most definitely deserves it. fingers crossed we'll get to see the best 12/13 combo in the world on the lions tour, and see darce silence the sky sports types blathering on about how flutey is the greatest ever.

would settle for him making amends for third test in 2005 to be honest.

[Danthefan]

amazing player, most definitely deserves it. fingers crossed we'll get to see the best 12/13 combo in the world on the lions tour, and see darce silence the sky sports types blathering on about how flutey is the greatest ever.

would settle for him making amends for third test in 2005 to be honest.

Do f%~k off, wum.


D'Arcy should have been there from the start, glad McGeechan has finally copped on.

[Turnip Boy]

amazing player, most definitely deserves it. fingers crossed we'll get to see the best 12/13 combo in the world on the lions tour, and see darce silence the sky sports types blathering on about how flutey is the greatest ever.

would settle for him making amends for third test in 2005 to be honest.

Do f%~k off, wum.


D'Arcy should have been there from the start, glad McGeechan has finally copped on.

so if he did the same thing in an Ireland or Leinster jersey you'd be happy?

[Danthefan]

Yawn.

[suisse]

Great news. Momentum and freshness are key on this tour and D’Arcy has both of those. Will likely start at 12 against the Cheetahs with Earls outside him maybe…

Hmmm....just compare 2005 to 2009 for him. He also suffered an injury in 2004 against Bath, and watched as Ireland's season crashed against France in Lansdowne, and then well beaten in Cardiff. Leinster then went out badly in the Heineken Cup q/f at home to Leicester, and Kidney walked. 4 years later, he returns from injury, guides Ireland to a Grand Slam with big wins over France and Wales, and then wins a HEC medal. He had no momentum in 2005, but will be buzzing now.

Great news for D'Arcy and well deserved on form but have to say it's a bit of a surprise given some of the comments from those inside the Lions camp and in particular Fran Cotton.

Fran Cotton is a has been, and the way they treated Shane Horgan was just as poor as D'arcy's decision. Mistakes everywhere.

[hugonaut]

Fran Cotton is a has been, and the way they treated Shane Horgan was just as poor as D'arcy's decision. Mistakes everywhere.

Very good point about Horgan – he was pretty shabbily treated by Woodward. Came off the bench in every test [as a winger] but never deemed good enough to start? Doesn't sound like much now, but he was one of the very few players who was putting in good work during the dirt-trackers game and more than deserved to start at least one of the tests.

Fran Cotton is more than entitled to his opinion as a former Lions stand-out, both as player and manager. You don't have to like what he says, and more to the point, he's not involved with the tour, so it doesn't really matter what he says. He may be a 'has been' but what he did, he did well!

[Danthefan]

Fran Cotton is a has been, and the way they treated Shane Horgan was just as poor as D'arcy's decision. Mistakes everywhere.

Very good point about Horgan – he was pretty shabbily treated by Woodward. Came off the bench in every test [as a winger] but never deemed good enough to start? Doesn't sound like much now, but he was one of the very few players who was putting in good work during the dirt-trackers game and more than deserved to start at least one of the tests.

Fran Cotton is more than entitled to his opinion as a former Lions stand-out, both as player and manager. You don't have to like what he says, and more to the point, he's not involved with the tour, so it doesn't really matter what he says. He may be a 'has been' but what he did, he did well!

He is entitled to his opinion but just because he's been a tourist doesn't make him right. Hickie said recently that D'Arcy was not physically fit to play, end of story. A certain few might keep trying to propagate the rumour about 2005 but it's nonsense.

[gfo]

d'arcy had the guts to say he wasnt playing well and he wasnt going to play well in the match. i dont see why people made such a huge deal of it

[Rhapsody in Blue]

Great news!!! Congrats Darce

[Dave Cahill]

The whole 2005 stuff is a load of lies and b*%&!x from Cotton and Woodward. Darce got stamped on near the end of the auckland match, for which Tuitupu got a 6 week ban, and got a shoulder injury from it. He wasn't fit to play the next match. Anyone who believes the Cotton/Bald story is simply intellectually subnormal.

[suisse]

Fran Cotton is a has been, and the way they treated Shane Horgan was just as poor as D'arcy's decision. Mistakes everywhere.

Very good point about Horgan – he was pretty shabbily treated by Woodward. Came off the bench in every test [as a winger] but never deemed good enough to start? Doesn't sound like much now, but he was one of the very few players who was putting in good work during the dirt-trackers game and more than deserved to start at least one of the tests.

Fran Cotton is more than entitled to his opinion as a former Lions stand-out, both as player and manager. You don't have to like what he says, and more to the point, he's not involved with the tour, so it doesn't really matter what he says. He may be a 'has been' but what he did, he did well!

Who is Fran Cotton to a generation of rugby fans in the UK and Ireland now? This is the problem with rugby - they keeping rocking out these former greats for opinion and insight, but the games and tours they went on are a million miles from anything the current squad are doing. He is entitled to his opinion, so my beef doesn't lay with him, but why are people like Fran asked for an opinion on something completely removed from his own vintage? He deserves respect for what he achieved in a former life (rugby terms) but it's like asking Jack Kyle why Ronan had such an off day against England. Different game!

[Dave Cahill]

Fran Cotton is a has been, and the way they treated Shane Horgan was just as poor as D'arcy's decision. Mistakes everywhere.

Very good point about Horgan – he was pretty shabbily treated by Woodward. Came off the bench in every test [as a winger] but never deemed good enough to start? Doesn't sound like much now, but he was one of the very few players who was putting in good work during the dirt-trackers game and more than deserved to start at least one of the tests.

Fran Cotton is more than entitled to his opinion as a former Lions stand-out, both as player and manager. You don't have to like what he says, and more to the point, he's not involved with the tour, so it doesn't really matter what he says. He may be a 'has been' but what he did, he did well!

Who is Fran Cotton to a generation of rugby fans in the UK and Ireland now? This is the problem with rugby - they keeping rocking out these former greats for opinion and insight, but the games and tours they went on are a million miles from anything the current squad are doing. He is entitled to his opinion, so my beef doesn't lay with him, but why are people like Fran asked for an opinion on something completely removed from his own vintage? He deserves respect for what he achieved in a former life (rugby terms) but it's like asking Jack Kyle why Ronan had such an off day against England. Different game!

Was Cotton not the manager in 05?

[gERI]

Found out at work when I was on the net trying to solve the puzzle as to why D'Arcy pulled out of the Baa Baas. I'm absolutely delighted for Gordon. He so deserves it and I really was disappointed for him that he hadnt been called in the first place.

Contgrats Gordon!

Geri

[suisse]

Was Cotton not the manager in 05?

No, Bill Beaumont

[Danthefan]

The whole 2005 stuff is a load of lies and b*%&!x from Cotton and Woodward. Darce got stamped on near the end of the auckland match, for which Tuitupu got a 6 week ban, and got a shoulder injury from it. He wasn't fit to play the next match. Anyone who believes the Cotton/Bald story is simply intellectually subnormal.

I guess it's no surprise so that it's Munster people who keep dragging it up.

[Vamos los azules]

Excellent news for Darce. Looking forward to seeing him in action.

[RoboProp]

About time! Delighted for him. Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke. The lion has gone from strength to strength. Fe(king Peugeot ain't got nothing on him!

[Munsterboy]

I am delighted to see D'Arcy called out and I don't have any issue with him not playing that third test on the last tour. Whether he was injured or not I would not blame him for not wanting to play for Woodward.

Woodward treated many players very very badly on that tour. He virtually ignored Geordan Murphy, who was playing very well. He overlooked Shane Horgan and Shane Williams, who were probably the form wingers. Then he went and picked the crocked Johnny Wilkinson at 12 and put the over-the-hill Will Greenwood on the bench for the first test. If he had treated me like that I would have told him to shove his token test cap up his arse too.

I followed that tour and I have not forgotten how miserable and pissed off we (Irish, Welsh and Scots fans) were with that megalomaniac's selections and bullshit. I met a good few of the players (including Gordon) and many of them weren't too happy either.

[Sarphil]

Was Cotton not the manager in 05?

No, Bill Beaumont

1997 tour to South Africa.

[hugonaut]

Who is Fran Cotton to a generation of rugby fans in the UK and Ireland now? This is the problem with rugby - they keeping rocking out these former greats for opinion and insight, but the games and tours they went on are a million miles from anything the current squad are doing. He is entitled to his opinion, so my beef doesn't lay with him, but why are people like Fran asked for an opinion on something completely removed from his own vintage? He deserves respect for what he achieved in a former life (rugby terms) but it's like asking Jack Kyle why Ronan had such an off day against England. Different game!

Eh, Fran Cotton is the only successful manager of a professional Lions tour. As such, I'd give his opinion quite a lot of weight actually - certainly more weight than the manager of a team that got whitewashed in the tests [NZ05] or contrived to lose the series to an inferior team having been one up and in a commanding position in the second test [AUS01].

I don't think that in Cotton's case 'the games and tours they went on are a million miles from anything the current squad are doing': he was in charge of a professional tour in the same country [SA]; same coach [McGeechan]; similar duration [not going there on a f*cking steamship and coming back home via Japan for a laugh]; same number of tests [3]; same status of the opposition being world champions and Lions being heavy underdogs; similar squad-size [not Woodward's bringing half the Guinness Premiership] ... they even have one of the same players in Simon Shaw!

So, quite frankly, I don't think that he's being asked about something 'completely removed from his vintage': he's the most recent manager of a successful Lions tour to South Africa, and the only manager of a successful professional Lions tour. It was twelve years ago, which is not all that long in Lions terms. The major differences in the game are predominantly to do with substitutions, but aside from that, rugby from 1997 is pretty recognisable today.

As for your question, "Who is Fran Cotton to a generation of rugby fans in the UK and Ireland now?": I just don't get it. He's an extremely well-known figure in NH rugby - be it for his pretty awesome career as a player, his success as Lions manager, or maybe even as the founder of Cotton Traders, who are still a well-known name in terms of clothing, gear and equipment. If a load of kids or Johnny-Come-Lately fans – I don't know who you mean when you refer to 'a generation of fans' – don't know who he is, maybe they should look at the 97 DVD or read a book about the Lions. He's a pretty important part of Lions history.

I'm not saying this to have a dig at you Suisse, just putting across my side of the argument.

I'm a big D'Arcy fan, and am delighted for him to be called up to the Lions – he's really hitting form, and should be a great benefit to the squad. I don't necessarily agree with Cotton's viewpoint, but he has every right to state his opinion, even if people on this board don't like hearing it. Having a differing opinion [especially coming from a substantial base of knowledge] doesn't make him a 'has-been' or a 'liar' who talks 'a load of boll¡x'. FFS ...