Ryan Jones Out

[hugonaut]

Ryan Jones is out of the Lions tour, before even being available for selection.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/8097774.stm

I haven't seen the incident mentioned in the article, but I've heard comments that he looked very ropey coming off the pitch. Flying him out as a replacement and then immediately sending him home is a bad error of judgment by both the Lions management and Jones. He's an experienced international, and should have known his body well enough to have said that he wasn't up to it. He looks like he needs a break from the game and a good rest, as his form since Christmas has been very poor, given what he's capable of when in shape and mentally focused.

Secondly, the Lions management should have looked at the incident [again, I'm going on hearsay, but apparently a clash of hands resulting in concussion] and made their own minds up that Jones wouldn't be fit to play. The effect of a transatlantic flight, coupled with concussion and furthered by a late arrival into an unfamiliar set-up would have meant that he would have been at a severe disadvantage throughout his first week on tour. Apparently he's not going to be replaced, which is a pity: would have liked to have seen either Alastair Strokosch or Simon Taylor get the call instead of him initially anyway. They could have added something to the tour.

[The Doc]

This is crazy - a waste of 2 days. They could have had another replacement out yesterday - though they say they are not going to replace him now which means a shortage in the back row imo - my money is that someone gets flown out next week.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Poor reflection on the welsh medical team. Numbers wise I think its a necessity to bring someone else out and can't see why they haven't.

EDIT: Just thinking...why did they feel the need to replace Ferris but not Jones now?

[thecoolfreak]

Poor reflection on the welsh medical team. Numbers wise I think its a necessity to bring someone else out and can't see why they haven't.

EDIT: Just thinking...why did they feel the need to replace Ferris but not Jones now?

Agree with you that it is a very poor reflection on the Welsh medical staff. If the Lions management were told he's fit to play by them they have to take them at their word.

On the replacement, its very possible that they may be waiting until after tomorrows game before deciding on who to call up

[ronk]

Poor reflection on the welsh medical team. Numbers wise I think its a necessity to bring someone else out and can't see why they haven't.

EDIT: Just thinking...why did they feel the need to replace Ferris but not Jones now?

Agree with you that it is a very poor reflection on the Welsh medical staff. If the Lions management were told he's fit to play by them they have to take them at their word.

On the replacement, its very possible that they may be waiting until after tomorrows game before deciding on who to call up

I think the article explained the situation quite well. It's not at all clear that the Welsh medical staff screwed up. He was due to get a test in Wales but they decided to send him out and test him in South Africa because it would be faster. For something like the Lions they couldn't deny him his chance on a hunch when they knew he wouldn't be put into a dangerous situation. It's unfortunate but it's nice to see that the right thing from a player welfare standpoint was done.

[Vamos los azules]

Makes you wonder why it was so important that cover needed to be called up when Ferris was first out, and now suddenly it isn't.

Wonder why they rated Jones plus head injury (which was obviously bad enough from the reports of the Wales match saying he'd gone off and needed a scan) ahead of any of the other options

[Terraceman]

It would be crazy not to replace him. Only Croft and Worsley aere left to play at 6. My money is on Leamy but considering that Croft and Ryan Jones were on the stand by list he may not have even been on it.

[ronk]

Makes you wonder why it was so important that cover needed to be called up when Ferris was first out, and now suddenly it isn't.

Wonder why they rated Jones plus head injury (which was obviously bad enough from the reports of the Wales match saying he'd gone off and needed a scan) ahead of any of the other options

Jones is the Welsh captain and someone they're familiar with. When the call went in for Ferris it was looking like Jones would have a few days training and could play on Tuesday. Now anyone they bring in for the Tuesday match will have almost no time to train and might miss it anyway.

The further it goes into the tour the smaller the squad the Lions can get away with. They now have cover for the remaining matches. Only someone who could play his way into the test team would be worth bringing out. Otherwise they're wasting time and energy that's needed elsewhere on having a redundant backup option (who can be called out anyway).

[gizmo82]

i'd rather no one else is brought in for the rest of the tour as its too late now for players coming in to learn all the calls and set moves.

[ronk]

i'd rather no one else is brought in for the rest of the tour as its too late now for players coming in to learn all the calls and set moves.

Depending on injuries it might still be worthwhile having more depth. Not too many positions where there isn't enough depth to manage without replacements though. If another backrow goes down then they really should have a replacement sent out. Possibly if a fullback is out too.

[mhow]

From the account in the bbc story it seems like Jones was highly unlikely to be fit to play for next few weeks and should not have travelled. Gatland trying to make up for not picking him in the first place. Before Jones was told he was unfit to be part of the squad Gatland said Jones would have too little time to play himself into the test team - seemed a strange statement to make when he must have known Jones was referred by Lions medics to neurosurgeon etc.

[mhow]

From the Telegraph
Lions 2009: Ryan Jones' Lions tour ends before it begins
A breakdown in communications between the coaching teams of the British and Irish Lions and Wales has been blamed for Ryan Jones’s return to the UK less than 24 hours after arriving in South Africa as a replacement for Stephen Ferris.

By Gavin Mairs in Cape Town
Published: 8:10PM BST 12 Jun 2009

The Wales captain became the sixth player to be ruled out of the touring party because of injury after a neurosurgeon in Cape Town on Friday diagnosed him with concussion leading to a mandatory three-week lay-off in line with International Rugby Board regulations.The Lions confirmed on Friday night he would not be replaced.

Jones had suffered a bang to his head during Wales’s victory over the United States in Chicago last Saturday and was forced off in the opening quarter. He had also taken a blow to his head the previous Saturday during the victory over Canada.

He was passed fit by the Wales squad medical team in the US to fly home but had yet to undertake a full medical examination, which had been scheduled for Friday, before he was called up by the Lions.

And it appears that the Lions were given assurances that there were no fitness concerns when Jones was called up to replace Ferris, who was ruled out of the tour on Tuesday with a knee injury.

“There was a breakdown in communications between the two coaching teams, not the medical staff,” said a Lions spokesman.

“Ryan underwent the same routine medical testing as all replacement players joining the tour and it led to the team’s medical staff requesting a further examination by an independent neurosurgeon.”
Jones, one of the biggest names to have been overlooked by Ian McGeechan for the original tour party, was philosophical about his departure.

“I am very disappointed that on medical grounds I have been told that I am not currently fit enough to play an active role on the tour,” he said. “I feel OK at present, but obviously I have to listen to the neurosurgeon’s advice in terms of my health and to ensure I make a full recovery.”

A WRU spokesman said: “We fully understand the reasons this step has been taken, but we understand how desperately sad it is for Ryan.”

From The Times June 13, 2009

Injured Ryan Jones ruled out of Lions tourDavid Hands, Rugby Correspondent, Cape Town
Ryan Jones, the Wales captain who joined the Lions tour party in Cape Town on Thursday, was ruled out only 24 hours after arriving.

A neurological surgeon determined that Jones, a replacement for Stephen Ferris, should rest for a further three weeks after two “significant” blows to the head during Wales's tour to North America.

It is remarkable that Jones should have been allowed to travel to South Africa and there will be serious questions asked of the Welsh Rugby Union when the Lions return home, because Jones was due to have a scan at home yesterday. He suffered the second blow in Chicago during Wales's game against the United States last Saturday, leaving the field midway through the first half.

When Ferris was ruled out of the Lions tour with damaged knee ligaments, Jones was the first name on the back-row replacements' list and the Lions management were told that he was available. On arrival, Jones was assessed by the Lions medical staff, who asked for an independent opinion, which they received in Cape Town yesterday morning.

[mhow]

Guardian
Ryan Jones was this afternoon ruled out of the Lions tour – less than 24 hours after arriving in South Africa as a replacement for Stephen Ferris.

The Wales captain, who had been suffering from a head injury after a knock on tour in America, was assessed by a neurosurgeon in Cape Town today, who diagnosed him with a concussion leading to a mandatory three-week lay-off.

Jones took a bump in the opening minutes while playing for his country against the United States in Chicago last Saturday and was eventually forced to leave the field.

This will cause considerable embarrassment for the Lions management who should have had the player looked at before he boarded the plane for South Africa.

The Wales coach, Warren Gatland, the Lions' second-in-command here, spoke to Jones after Ferris was ruled out of the tour with a knee injury last Tuesday and was assured that there were no fitness concerns.
It is the shortest stay a Lions player has had in the modern era. Back in 1987, Wales flew the prop John Rawlins out as a replacement in the World Cup campaign in Australia and New Zealand. He went from the airport to the training field, pulled a hamstring and was ruled out of the campaign.

"I am very disappointed that on medical grounds I have been told that I am not currently fit enough to play an active role on the tour," said Jones. "I was looking forward to getting involved with the rest of the lads, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

"It has been an up and down year for me in many ways. I feel okay at present, but obviously I have to listen to the neurosurgeon's advice in terms of my health and to ensure I make a full recovery."

On the neurosurgeon's advice, it has been determined it is not safe for Jones to undertake any physical contact for a mandatory three-week period. This is in line with International Rugby Board regulations on concussion.

The Ospreys back-row forward, who skippered Wales to the Six Nations title and Grand Slam last year, failed to make the original Lions squad. He was among three national captains who were overlooked, joining the Scotland skipper Mike Blair and England's Steve Borthwick.

Blair, though, flew out to South Africa last month when Munster scrum-half Tomas O'Leary was sidelined by a broken ankle. And Jones gained a call-up following a knee injury to Ferris who produced two impressive displays as he made a concerted push for a Test place.

The loss of Jones leaves the Lions relatively thin on the ground in terms of their back-row options for Tuesday's game against the Southern Kings in Port Elizabeth.

[Donny B.]

What the flying f%~k?!!

Why was a replacement needed three days ago but not needed now?

[ceemec]

For me, it's ridiculous he was called out. If there was some doubt, any doubt, surrounding a possible concussion there shouldn't have even been a suggestion of him going out. A massive flight on top of a head injury is going to completely screw the lad over. This is ignoring the fact that he's been in terrible form and on the Sky report looked in shite shape walking through the airport. Someone like Strokosch should have been called out but as stated above it was only ever going to be Jones as the Welsh quota was boosted by Gatland. A lad like Strokosch with no mates out there didn't stand a chance. Silly, silly decision. Now they have 6 backrows for 6 matches. Another injury and they're going to look very stupid for making that call. Gatland is the Welsh coach. If the Welsh staff have f%~ked up he should be carrying some of the blame.

[8M LEINSTAW]

So who's in the hotseat now for backrow callups? Strokosch? Jennings? Leamy?

[ceemec]

So who's in the hotseat now for backrow callups? Strokosch? Jennings? Leamy?

Bizarrely, nobody being called up.

[8M LEINSTAW]

Yeah but eventually (!?) commonsense will surely prevail and they'll send for someone- though I did read in the Indo that Alun Wynne-Jones 'can play blindside at a snip'. If this keeps going they'll have Wynne-Jones, Williams and Powell in the backrow this day week. Surely there's the case for Shane Williams at 9 then

[gfo]

He's an experienced international, and should have known his body well enough to have said that he wasn't up to it.

true, but look what happened when D'arcy said he wasn't up to it, people are still going on about it.

Surely there's the case for Shane Williams at 9 then

from the looks of it, he'd play shane from 1 to 15 if he got the chance

[downsouthdukin]

He's an experienced international, and should have known his body well enough to have said that he wasn't up to it.

true, but look what happened when D'arcy said he wasn't up to it, people are still going on about it.


darcy wasnt injured