Team for Southern Kings

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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby Donny B. » June 16th, 2009, 9:28 pm

ceemec wrote:Also, at the risk of being unpopular, I don't think Worsley was that bad today. He got through a mountain of work. For someone that isn't a 7 he did his best and can't be expected to do the breakdown work of an openside when he isn't one. He carried decently and made a load of tackles. Competed well in the lineout too. The fact that he played the 80 though suggests his chances at making the 22 are gone.


Not terrible effort if he was playing six, but the number on his back was seven and in tha respect, he was dreadful once again. God help England that they have to play him in that jersey.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby hugonaut » June 16th, 2009, 9:43 pm

Spot on about Earls and Worsley Ceemec, absolutely spot on.

In fairness to him, Worsley is as honest as the day is long and gets through a hell of a lot of work - he's just not an openside. I reckon he could still get a look in on the blindside of the test team in the second or third tests: I've no idea what backrow the Lions will select for the first test and how they'll do. If Jesus Croft gets picked, I suspect he may endure the finding-out to end all finding-outs at the hands of the Bok backrow. I've no particular axe to grind against him, just think that he's not physical enough to play 6 against the Saffas. I've said it a couple of times before, Worzel plays well in big matches, and you know that he's going to give you 100%. Just don't pick him at openside again. Ever. For the love of God.

Earls was really sharp in counter-attack today, great to see. Easily the Lions best runner. Elements of his game have to catch up, but you can't teach pace; coaching can improve his passing, and experience will improve his decision making. Looks much better in space, lacks the physicality for the centre at the moment. Best outing of the tour so far.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby Dublinner » June 17th, 2009, 12:13 am

Agree about Earls. I think he has done really well. As usual one or two people on here pathetically cant wait to see him fail. I think most reasonable people are fairly proud that he has bounced back well after a nightmare start. I dont think anyone has suggested he is the finished article. He is a long way from it. He needs to bulk up a little and his distribution needs work but he has so much potential its scary.
In terms of counter attacking or broken field running who else has done as well on the tour?
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby sarah_lennon » June 17th, 2009, 9:13 am

Dublinner wrote:Agree about Earls. I think he has done really well. As usual one or two people on here pathetically cant wait to see him fail.


Not reading that at all. Most posts say he had a mixed game and only one poster said something negative without lavishing praise. And balance isn't a prerequisite for opinion
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby TrapperChamonix » June 17th, 2009, 9:36 am

Am I the only one who is surprised by the reaction by the Lions and B&I press to the Southern Kings performance. Words bandied about like premediated, savage, brutal all being used to suggest that the home team were somehow targeting to intentionally injur the Lions. Even hear Michael Corkery referring to Hooks injury as a testement to this.

Having watched the game (and rewound with Sky plus) there were a few elements (late tackle on D'Arcy) that were unseen some more that were rightly punished (1st Yellow card) and a number more that were good timed abrasive tackles.

If this had been Leinster / Munster playing against a touring Springbok team then we would have been full of praise of the comittment shown. I can't really remember the details of the game, but I'd be surprised if the Munster v AB's in November was all sweetness and light.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby hugonaut » June 17th, 2009, 10:10 am

No, I'm surprised by it – thought it was a bit niggly, but nothing more.

That said, on second viewing, there's quite a lot of stuff off the ball initiated by the Southern Coast lads, especially at the end: Simon Shaw is knocked off his feet by their 17 and De Wet Barry has a go at Flutey, both of them a good distance from the ball. Obviously the players weren't happy with it though, and maybe it's easier to see a wider view of the pitch when you're at the match rather than getting a sanitised broadcast.

There was another incident in the second half when D'arcy is getting treatment in the middle of the pitch and Barnes comments that he's getting up, looking very groggy. He was nowhere near the ball, and the camera didn't catch what happened, so it was fairly likely he took an illegal hit.

Thought that the Lions held their discipline well. They're in a lose-lose situation: if they throw a punch, they'll more than likely get binned, damage the team's chances of winning the game and, in the worst possible scenario, get cited and suspended from the rest of the tour. It's not really a fair fight. It seems that people expect the provincial teams to try and soften the Lions up, and almost let them away with it. When you think of what Ferris got binned for against the Cheetahs, and then the late hit on D'Arcy early in the game going unpunished, it makes you question the judgment of the referees: one is a technical offence, the other is blatant foul play.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby Dublinner » June 17th, 2009, 10:58 am

sarah_lennon wrote:
Dublinner wrote:Agree about Earls. I think he has done really well. As usual one or two people on here pathetically cant wait to see him fail.


Not reading that at all. Most posts say he had a mixed game and only one poster said something negative without lavishing praise. And balance isn't a prerequisite for opinion


I didnt say everyone wanted Earls to fail. I said one or two people.

Dublinner wrote:As usual one or two people on here pathetically cant wait to see him fail. I think most reasonable people are fairly proud that he has bounced back well
When I said one or two people on here wanted him to fail I meant on the forum in general not just on this thread. Have a look at some of these quotes from various threads.

"Does anyone have the AIL stats on this guy. He has only ever scored in 2 games for Munster so am just curious as to what he achieved in the AIL to warrent this Hype. He's is like a boy band member who couldnt sing, maybe the Jason Orange/or his name sake Kieth Duffy of Rugby.... SPOOFER"

"My whole point is that the gulf in class between him BOD and Roberts is laughable. I just dont believe he is is good as the media profile or his fans suggest and not good enough to represent the Lions. I am tried of hearing about potential, the lions is all about the best of the best and clearly he is not."

"I'd hardly call him and Irish international. He wasn't even in any of the squads for the six nations was he?
The fact that he is in the Lions squad is a joke."

"Keith the Lion... What a debut... (After first Lions game)"

"all i can say is why in gods name is earls in there????"

"we'll never hear the end of this now that he gets a cap to be honest johnno should be or darcy should be on that tour not earls !"

"What is going on here. Stop making excuses for earls. Its starting to sound like the munster message board where they are blaming everyone else including Sky Sports for showing replays. This clown is way out of his dept as I highlighted many times. You would not see a J6 player drop 4 balls in a row in fact in 25 years of playing I have never seen it. Get this geek out of there and bring in Hipkiss or Darcy."


"The guy is not a worthy Lion which he displayed on Sat. he embarassed himself and us. If you look at the slatings he got on other message boards you will understand , that nobody thinks he should be there. I am not asking him to be sent home on foot of his Sat display, but more so that there is far better players out there and I dont know why he was picked?"


IMO these people would like to see him crash and burn on this tour. Of course they are entitled to their opinion thats why we have the forum! I just disagree with it thats all.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby TrapperChamonix » June 17th, 2009, 11:48 am

hugonaut wrote:No, I'm surprised by it – thought it was a bit niggly, but nothing more.

That said, on second viewing, there's quite a lot of stuff off the ball initiated by the Southern Coast lads, especially at the end: Simon Shaw is knocked off his feet by their 17 and De Wet Barry has a go at Flutey, both of them a good distance from the ball. Obviously the players weren't happy with it though, and maybe it's easier to see a wider view of the pitch when you're at the match rather than getting a sanitised broadcast.

There was another incident in the second half when D'arcy is getting treatment in the middle of the pitch and Barnes comments that he's getting up, looking very groggy. He was nowhere near the ball, and the camera didn't catch what happened, so it was fairly likely he took an illegal hit.

Thought that the Lions held their discipline well. They're in a lose-lose situation: if they throw a punch, they'll more than likely get binned, damage the team's chances of winning the game and, in the worst possible scenario, get cited and suspended from the rest of the tour. It's not really a fair fight. It seems that people expect the provincial teams to try and soften the Lions up, and almost let them away with it. When you think of what Ferris got binned for against the Cheetahs, and then the late hit on D'Arcy early in the game going unpunished, it makes you question the judgment of the referees: one is a technical offence, the other is blatant foul play.


I'd agree with most of that.

I was also interested in how unpset Flutey looked at the late challange on him that lead to the 1st sinbining. It looked remarakbly similar to his hit on BOD in CP in the 6N's. All shoulder and head and very little arms. Certainly dangerous and deserving of a yellow card, but ironic all the same.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby fourthirtythree » June 17th, 2009, 12:14 pm

TrapperChamonix wrote:
I'd agree with most of that.

I was also interested in how unpset Flutey looked at the late challange on him that lead to the 1st sinbining. It looked remarakbly similar to his hit on BOD in CP in the 6N's. All shoulder and head and very little arms. Certainly dangerous and deserving of a yellow card, but ironic all the same.


Have to say that cracked me up: couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Flutey wasn't hit anywhere near as hard though.

There is no doubt, however, that the Southern Kings were sent out with a, shall we say blasé attitude to injuring the opposition. Plenty of late hits. Owens didn't gave the benefit of the doubt for too long. Also, he gave away penalties for throwing away the ball but didn't penalise stopping the play after a penalty by starting a fight and hanging on to the ball on the ground. He looked out of his depth yesterday. I think much of it could have been nipped in the bud.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby TrapperChamonix » June 17th, 2009, 12:27 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:
Have to say that cracked me up: couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Flutey wasn't hit anywhere near as hard though.


I think you meant to say Flutey wasn't hit anywhere near hard enough. :twisted:
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby dipper » June 17th, 2009, 12:51 pm

You'll always get a physical (often illegally physical) game against SA opposition. I thought the Lions were disciplined in how they handled it. The late hit from behind on D'Arcy deserved a yellow though.

Earls was smashing in broken field. He just needs to keep an eye out for his team mates a bit better. He seems to waste his good runs. Looks a bit light for the centre so maybe fullback will be his position in the long run.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby Isaac4leinster » June 17th, 2009, 2:04 pm

downsouthdukin wrote:
Isaac4leinster wrote:So much for the rumour Keith Earls could kick. At least thats been put to bed once and for all.

Very mixed bag again.


i guess this is you not being anti-munster again isaac


In fairness he is very raw. I've been praising Earls in earlier posts though.

I realise that any criticism of a munster player is obviously biased. The funny thing about this website is that you can critcise Leinster players to your heart's content but at the meerest suggestion of a flaw in a Munster player the Munster thought police try to bully you into subsmission.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby Danthefan » June 17th, 2009, 3:04 pm

Isaac4leinster wrote:
downsouthdukin wrote:
Isaac4leinster wrote:So much for the rumour Keith Earls could kick. At least thats been put to bed once and for all.

Very mixed bag again.


i guess this is you not being anti-munster again isaac


In fairness he is very raw. I've been praising Earls in earlier posts though.

I realise that any criticism of a munster player is obviously biased. The funny thing about this website is that you can critcise Leinster players to your heart's content but at the meerest suggestion of a flaw in a Munster player the Munster thought police try to bully you into subsmission.


Yep, it's a joke. Earls played well yesterday but he's nowhere near an international quality centre.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby orfeo » June 17th, 2009, 6:49 pm

Dublinner wrote:Agree about Earls. I think he has done really well. As usual one or two people on here pathetically cant wait to see him fail. I think most reasonable people are fairly proud that he has bounced back well after a nightmare start. I dont think anyone has suggested he is the finished article. He is a long way from it. He needs to bulk up a little and his distribution needs work but he has so much potential its scary.
In terms of counter attacking or broken field running who else has done as well on the tour?


Have to agree with you Dublinner. Why so many are willing him to fail is beyond me .He has come back from a nightmare start in game 1,in which it now turns out he sustained an injury early on to a point in this game where he was a real counter attacing threat .Of course he is not the finished article - who is at 20 ? and to say as Danthefan does that he is not 'an international centre ' is just laughable , he clearly is, the question is how good. A small wager says he makes the test 22 before the tour is out
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby Isaac4leinster » June 19th, 2009, 4:00 pm

orfeo wrote:
Dublinner wrote:Agree about Earls. I think he has done really well. As usual one or two people on here pathetically cant wait to see him fail. I think most reasonable people are fairly proud that he has bounced back well after a nightmare start. I dont think anyone has suggested he is the finished article. He is a long way from it. He needs to bulk up a little and his distribution needs work but he has so much potential its scary.
In terms of counter attacking or broken field running who else has done as well on the tour?


Have to agree with you Dublinner. Why so many are willing him to fail is beyond me .He has come back from a nightmare start in game 1,in which it now turns out he sustained an injury early on to a point in this game where he was a real counter attacing threat .Of course he is not the finished article - who is at 20 ? and to say as Danthefan does that he is not 'an international centre ' is just laughable , he clearly is, the question is how good. A small wager says he makes the test 22 before the tour is out


People are not willing him to fail. Get over yourselves, just making valid criticisms about his abilities is not willing him to fail. As demonstrated, Earls is not the greatest kicker of the ball. Drico has only managed to become a semi-decent kicker in the last five years and he is the best player in his position in the world.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby downsouthdukin » June 19th, 2009, 7:01 pm

Isaac4leinster wrote:
downsouthdukin wrote:
Isaac4leinster wrote:So much for the rumour Keith Earls could kick. At least thats been put to bed once and for all.

Very mixed bag again.


i guess this is you not being anti-munster again isaac


In fairness he is very raw. I've been praising Earls in earlier posts though.

I realise that any criticism of a munster player is obviously biased. The funny thing about this website is that you can critcise Leinster players to your heart's content but at the meerest suggestion of a flaw in a Munster player the Munster thought police try to bully you into subsmission.


you poor thing, have i been trying to bully you into submission??? it was a reference to a previous post many infact that tend to start with 'im not being anti-munster but..' re; your post on DOC
Big match from Munster.Don't really understand the criticism of their so called ugly rugby.I love open running rugby but I also admire the collective mastery of this Munster team.What a beautiful machine with that ruthless side to them.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby downsouthdukin » June 19th, 2009, 7:03 pm

Isaac4leinster wrote:
downsouthdukin wrote:
Isaac4leinster wrote:So much for the rumour Keith Earls could kick. At least thats been put to bed once and for all.



i guess this is you not being anti-munster again isaac


In fairness he is very raw. I've been praising Earls in earlier posts though.

I realise that any criticism of a munster player is obviously biased. The funny thing about this website is that you can critcise Leinster players to your heart's content but at the meerest suggestion of a flaw in a Munster player the Munster thought police try to bully you into subsmission.


Yep, it's a joke. Earls played well yesterday but he's nowhere near an international quality centre.



i agree dan, he a fullback/wing, mcgahan thinks so too... maybe in a few years when his distribution and offloading improves
Big match from Munster.Don't really understand the criticism of their so called ugly rugby.I love open running rugby but I also admire the collective mastery of this Munster team.What a beautiful machine with that ruthless side to them.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby downsouthdukin » June 19th, 2009, 7:08 pm

Isaac4leinster wrote:
orfeo wrote:
Dublinner wrote:Agree about Earls. I think he has done really well. As usual one or two people on here pathetically cant wait to see him fail. I think most reasonable people are fairly proud that he has bounced back well after a nightmare start. I dont think anyone has suggested he is the finished article. He is a long way from it. He needs to bulk up a little and his distribution needs work but he has so much potential its scary.
In terms of counter attacking or broken field running who else has done as well on the tour?


Have to agree with you Dublinner. Why so many are willing him to fail is beyond me .He has come back from a nightmare start in game 1,in which it now turns out he sustained an injury early on to a point in this game where he was a real counter attacing threat .Of course he is not the finished article - who is at 20 ? and to say as Danthefan does that he is not 'an international centre ' is just laughable , he clearly is, the question is how good. A small wager says he makes the test 22 before the tour is out


People are not willing him to fail. Get over yourselves, just making valid criticisms about his abilities is not willing him to fail. As demonstrated, Earls is not the greatest kicker of the ball. Drico has only managed to become a semi-decent kicker in the last five years and he is the best player in his position in the world.


kicking is not one of weaknesses. your basing that on a few wayward kicks in the last game. you could say that about fitz but i know fitz is well able to kick a ball as is earls..
bod kicking was atrocious but has improved alot in recent years(he didnt need to kick as he was so good with ballin hand) but as he has slowed a little he has had to add it to his game and showing what a quality player he is he has done it brilliantly. he still hasnt the ability to kick the big range finders, he tends to keep em low and tends to do them at the right time.
Big match from Munster.Don't really understand the criticism of their so called ugly rugby.I love open running rugby but I also admire the collective mastery of this Munster team.What a beautiful machine with that ruthless side to them.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby fourthirtythree » June 19th, 2009, 9:07 pm

downsouthdukin wrote:
kicking is not one of weaknesses. your basing that on a few wayward kicks in the last game. you could say that about fitz but i know fitz is well able to kick a ball as is earls..
bod kicking was atrocious but has improved alot in recent years(he didnt need to kick as he was so good with ballin hand) but as he has slowed a little he has had to add it to his game and showing what a quality player he is he has done it brilliantly. he still hasnt the ability to kick the big range finders, he tends to keep em low and tends to do them at the right time.


Stop it! I find myself agreeing with you.

Earls has a fantastic boot. Fitz has had a bad few months with his decision making and kicking. He's such a fantastic talent that he'll come back like Earls did from his horrible game.
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Re: Team for Southern Kings

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 20th, 2009, 2:32 am

I think that people think Luke is a bad kicker because Stuart Barnes said so...I don't remember hearing about it until he mentioned it...
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