ROG.

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ROG.

Postby Danthefan » June 27th, 2009, 4:13 pm

Retire please.
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Re: ROG.

Postby Hippo » June 27th, 2009, 4:18 pm

Concussed, surely? I'm not the biggest fan, but he looked completely out of it when giving away that pen. I'm deliberately ignoring the missed tackle, but I think he'd already got the knock by then...
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Re: ROG.

Postby Comer Toes » June 27th, 2009, 4:26 pm

Danthefan wrote:Retire please.


Disastrous cameo that will haunt him for the rest of his days... but "retire please"?? What would be the point of that? Typical silly comment.
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Re: ROG.

Postby munster#1 » June 27th, 2009, 4:32 pm

ya i can't believe it we didn't miss a tackle give away any penalties or soft tries for 70 mins then on comes ROG and trows away the game by giving them an easy penalty in there half what a useless peice of cr@p
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Re: ROG.

Postby ceemec » June 27th, 2009, 4:49 pm

Hippo wrote:Concussed, surely? I'm not the biggest fan, but he looked completely out of it when giving away that pen. I'm deliberately ignoring the missed tackle, but I think he'd already got the knock by then...


Playing devil's advocate here but pretty sure he picked up the knock in one of the phases leading to the try where he got his head in the wrong place again trying to tackle Spies who bounced him also. Open to correction but think that was what happened. Inexcusable for a professional player to not be able to tackle after 10 years of playing top level rugby. Everyone knew it was a weakness in his game. He should have worked at it. Precisely why the coaches wouldn't have him in the 15 and they've been proven correct. Wouldn't hold the pen against him as much as everyone does stupid stuff but being bounced off repeatedly is where he's let himself down.
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Re: ROG.

Postby Oldschool » June 27th, 2009, 5:17 pm

Comer Toes wrote:
Danthefan wrote:Retire please.


Disastrous cameo that will haunt him for the rest of his days... but "retire please"?? What would be the point of that? Typical silly comment.

It'd put me and a fair few other Irish fans out of their misery for starters.
However, as he shouldn't have been on the bench in the first place, this one goes to the manager/coach of the series "NOT", Ian McGeechan.
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Re: ROG.

Postby 8M LEINSTAW » June 27th, 2009, 5:27 pm

At the risk of drawing a lot of flak on this thread, I feel for ROG - but he's not the sole reason why the best team lost today so let's keep the reaction in perspective. Coming on cold into a full on pitched battle is a challenge for anyone. ROG is not used to being an impact sub - he's started most huge games in his career - and struggled as a result. Think he took a knock alright and that, the SA try and desperately wanting to make an impact made him do that daft thing at the end.The act of doing this or forcing a pass that gets picked off or getting pinged for a technical at a ruck are all in the same bucket and plenty happened on both sides today.. We've all been guilty of it at some time or other. 10 seconds after doing it you normally as yourself 'What the fcuk was I thinking?' In this case the consequences of a silly act were much more serious. I'm as gutted as anyone, but cut him some slack. Talk of retirement is OTT. He still has a lot to contribute. We should have been out of sight at that stage anyway if we had cracked on from halftime.
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Re: ROG.

Postby Made Of Ale » June 27th, 2009, 5:36 pm

8M LEINSTAW wrote:At the risk of drawing a lot of flak on this thread, I feel for ROG - but he's not the sole reason why the best team lost today so let's keep the reaction in perspective. Coming on cold into a full on pitched battle is a challenge for anyone. ROG is not used to being an impact sub - he's started most huge games in his career - and struggled as a result. Think he took a knock alright and that, the SA try and desperately wanting to make an impact made him do that daft thing at the end.The act of doing this or forcing a pass that gets picked off or getting pinged for a technical at a ruck are all in the same bucket and plenty happened on both sides today.. We've all been guilty of it at some time or other. 10 seconds after doing it you normally as yourself 'What the fcuk was I thinking?' In this case the consequences of a silly act were much more serious. I'm as gutted as anyone, but cut him some slack. Talk of retirement is OTT. He still has a lot to contribute. We should have been out of sight at that stage anyway if we had cracked on from halftime.


Agreed completely. I'm far from his biggest fan but he wasn't the reason we lost today. Dominated for about sixty minutes, not far enough ahead, then lost BOD, Roeberts etc. That's how we lost despite being by far the better team for the majority of the game. And last week was a bigger miss than today.
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Re: ROG.

Postby RoboProp » June 27th, 2009, 5:39 pm

Sexton's form will keep him on his toes and he'll be all the better for it. It'll be like when he challenged Humphries. The winner will be Irish rugby. Calling for his retirement is a bit much, he has much to offer.
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Re: ROG.

Postby waterboy » June 27th, 2009, 6:07 pm

ceemec wrote:
Hippo wrote:Concussed, surely? I'm not the biggest fan, but he looked completely out of it when giving away that pen. I'm deliberately ignoring the missed tackle, but I think he'd already got the knock by then...


Playing devil's advocate here but pretty sure he picked up the knock in one of the phases leading to the try where he got his head in the wrong place again trying to tackle Spies who bounced him also. Open to correction but think that was what happened. Inexcusable for a professional player to not be able to tackle after 10 years of playing top level rugby. Everyone knew it was a weakness in his game. He should have worked at it. Precisely why the coaches wouldn't have him in the 15 and they've been proven correct. Wouldn't hold the pen against him as much as everyone does stupid stuff but being bounced off repeatedly is where he's let himself down.


Agree with all you said its criminal for him not to have worked on his tackling. Fitzgerald has worked hard on his the last year and with obvious results. ROG should have sorted out this weakness in his game years ago
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Re: ROG.

Postby foz_e_bear » June 27th, 2009, 6:10 pm

Calling for his retirement may sound harsh but to be fair it' a last straw kind of thing. I know I'm bias – I can't stand ROG and think he's got away with far too much over the last few years – but I do think he's no longer up to the job. He's done a lot for Irish rugby but his standard has dropped well short of the mark. Yes he got the drop goal in Wales, but look at his pros and cons over the 6 nations and you'll see the cons way outweigh the pros. It would be unfair to blame the loss solely on OG, but Jesus giving away a silly penno in the last minute, he has to be somewhat culpable. This is not just Leinster bias, I spoke to a dedicated Munster fan this morning who criticized Geech for having him even on the bench. He steps away from legitimate tackles yet gets involved in illegal ones. Ask Rob, BOD, Shaw, Roberts, Jones etc, after all the hard work and sublime talent they showed, do they blame him, and away from the cameras I can guarantee they'll rue his lack of thought for many a year to come. Calling for his retirement may seem cold, but that is a career defining moment, and he failed, yes he had good times, but he's cost Ireland, Munster and now the Lions as many games as he's saved. Sexon isn't the finished artical yet, but he's a bigger talent even at this developmental stage of his career than ROG is.
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Re: ROG.

Postby munster#1 » June 27th, 2009, 6:58 pm

foz_e_bear wrote:Calling for his retirement may sound harsh but to be fair it' a last straw kind of thing. I know I'm bias – I can't stand ROG and think he's got away with far too much over the last few years – but I do think he's no longer up to the job. He's done a lot for Irish rugby but his standard has dropped well short of the mark. Yes he got the drop goal in Wales, but look at his pros and cons over the 6 nations and you'll see the cons way outweigh the pros. It would be unfair to blame the loss solely on OG, but Jesus giving away a silly penno in the last minute, he has to be somewhat culpable. This is not just Leinster bias, I spoke to a dedicated Munster fan this morning who criticized Geech for having him even on the bench. He steps away from legitimate tackles yet gets involved in illegal ones. Ask Rob, BOD, Shaw, Roberts, Jones etc, after all the hard work and sublime talent they showed, do they blame him, and away from the cameras I can guarantee they'll rue his lack of thought for many a year to come. Calling for his retirement may seem cold, but that is a career defining moment, and he failed, yes he had good times, but he's cost Ireland, Munster and now the Lions as many games as he's saved. Sexon isn't the finished artical yet, but he's a bigger talent even at this developmental stage of his career than ROG is.

that's a great idea, i think he should retire too so then we loose 1 of the best kickers of the ball 1 of the best passers of the ball and the man who holds every record he could in europe, then bring in a young lad who has great potential hope he turns into the player we think he will and if he doesn't we can always bring ROG off the bench oh wait he's retired, so lets bring in keatly or maybe young humphries instead.
if ROG does retire it will be a massive loss to ireland and munster, no way he has lost more games than he has won have you never seen the passes he can trow to put away a runner or how many times he has kicked to the corner straight into an irish hand and then you have his accuracy out of hand to the line he is nowhere near retirement. i agree he is a very weak tackler and i am not his biggest fan either but as it stands there is no1 else, a good international team needs 2 out halves we have 1 and a half.
sexton needs to have o gara there it will push him on to be a better player and visa versa.
besides all that why should he retire he just got picked for the lions and won a grand slam with ireland this year, he should keep playing until he is not picked any more. he could easily play another 3 or 4 years and ireland don't have to pick him you do understand that is an option
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Re: ROG.

Postby true blue 06 » June 27th, 2009, 7:14 pm

so much for that lucozade he's taking. awful display at the end. shocking.... philips should have gone wing or centre and ellis should have come on...not o'gara
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Re: ROG.

Postby munster#1 » June 27th, 2009, 7:17 pm

true blue 06 wrote:so much for that lucozade he's taking. awful display at the end. shocking.... philips should have gone wing or centre and ellis should have come on...not o'gara
hook in at centre would of made more sense no need to disrupt the back line that much then, he is pretty good in centre that way jones could of stayed where he was, hate to say it but we could of done with monye on the bench
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Re: ROG.

Postby hugonaut » June 27th, 2009, 8:28 pm

The poor b*stard is in a pretty dark place at the moment. I'm not a big fan of his personality, but I appreciate what he has done for Irish rugby over the years ... and he's done a lot. He's a vital member of the trio of players, along with O'Driscoll and O'Connell, who have brought Irish rugby to its highest ever level, and while he's easily the most objectionable of them [in terms of his temperment, his carriage and his general demeanour] he's paid to be a rugby player, not a diplomat.

With that said, he cost the Lions the match. Obviously the game is played over 80 mins, and there are literally hundreds – even thousands – of incidents of which it is composed, but I can't recall such a clear cut run of negatives from one player in so short a space of time in such a vital match. Indefensible. Missing two tackles in vital situations, and then to cap it off, the appalling decision to hoist an up and under in the last minute of an exhausting match rather than kick the ball deep into touch? F*ck me.

He's got ninety international caps and has been on three Lions tours, so I think it's safe to say he's one of the most experienced players in the world. What was the upside of his decision? The Lions were literally out on their feet, decimated by injuries, with numerous players jerry-rigged into the team and playing out of position. No chasers, no defensive line. If the ball had been caught clean, the Boks could very well have gone through for a try unopposed in a worst-case scenario. It didn't even come down to that.

You could argue that if he kicked into touch, the Boks would have won the lineout, but they still would have had a lot to do to get themselves into a scoring position in thirty seconds, and the chance couldn't possible have been as easy. That length of kick at altitude is the equivalent of kicking from just outside the 10 at sea level.

And then, after that initial decision, he doesn't even compete for the ball? Doesn't even leave the ground? He was only on for 10 f*cking minutes! Du Preez had played like a ninja for 80+ and was still able to jump more than 5 feet into the air to make the catch. O'Gara made no attempt to compete for the ball and clearly ran into the man in the air – dangerous play and a stone cold penalty. F*cking mind-blowing. You can say that the pressure got to him, but with his experience, with all the high-pressure games behind him, that's a half-assed excuse. The pressure clearly did get to him, but it shouldn't have.

He's never been afraid of talking himself up – if I heard him refer to himself as 'mentally strong' once, I've heard it a dozen times – and he cracked under the pressure. Gutting. And for those who'll say he was trying to win the match? Please. The Lions settled for the draw when they went for the sticks with the last penalty. Judgment is a vital part of rugby, and you'd expect a player of his experience to exercise that judgment so much more effectively.

I'm pretty annoyed at him, but I'm also gutted for him. Whatever enjoyment we get from watching the Lions, whatever interest we take in following them, whatever passion we support them with, it is nothing compared to what the players put in. He'll be absolutely devastated, and I wouldn't wish that on any player, especially any Irish player. Conflicting emotions: f*cking idiot/poor b*stard.
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Re: ROG.

Postby fourthirtythree » June 27th, 2009, 11:27 pm

Hey Hugo, I don't think he should have been there: either he starts at ten or he's not in the squad. He really looked headf%cked from his first major collision and should probably have been hauled ashore but for the injuries.

I feel for him, not because he may or may not be arrogant, but because he was hit by Spies, he was put into positions of responsibility he wasn't up to at the time. It's tough. O'Gara never could tackle. But the number of injuries this squad took is more the issue, and selection.
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Re: ROG.

Postby John23 » June 27th, 2009, 11:59 pm

Its not the first time Ronan's tackling or lack thereof has been discussed on these forums or is it fora ?. He brought a whole new meaning to the phrase "impact off the bench" today. Having had some respect for him a couple of years ago, I read his autobiography last winter I ended up disliking the guy. I noticed concussed or otherwise he refused to autograph a jersey for one of the ballboys after the match.
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Re: ROG.

Postby hugonaut » June 28th, 2009, 12:45 am

fourthirtythree wrote:I don't think he should have been there: either he starts at ten or he's not in the squad. He really looked headf%cked from his first major collision and should probably have been hauled ashore but for the injuries.


Spot on. He offers no coverage anywhere along the backline, and Hook can legitimately play at 10,12 and 15. He looked pretty ropey alright after Spies ran over him, but he seemed to recover well enough when linking down the left hand side in the build up to Jones' penalty.

Actually think I was too harsh on him in my original post as well, just feeling more and more sorry for him now. F*cking nightmare. It's one of the good things about the Lions though: you can support them and really get behind them, but it's not devastating for a month when they lose a big game. It's a bit of a p¡sser for a couple of days, but that's about the guts of it.
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Re: ROG.

Postby velvitjester » June 28th, 2009, 3:39 am

He is so sh!t its unbelievable.He cant tackle,cant run.
Basically he can do nothing bar kick,get him the f%~k out.
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Re: ROG.

Postby Oldschool » June 28th, 2009, 10:22 am

munster#1 wrote:
foz_e_bear wrote:Calling for his retirement may sound harsh but to be fair it' a last straw kind of thing. I know I'm bias – I can't stand ROG and think he's got away with far too much over the last few years – but I do think he's no longer up to the job. He's done a lot for Irish rugby but his standard has dropped well short of the mark. Yes he got the drop goal in Wales, but look at his pros and cons over the 6 nations and you'll see the cons way outweigh the pros. It would be unfair to blame the loss solely on OG, but Jesus giving away a silly penno in the last minute, he has to be somewhat culpable. This is not just Leinster bias, I spoke to a dedicated Munster fan this morning who criticized Geech for having him even on the bench. He steps away from legitimate tackles yet gets involved in illegal ones. Ask Rob, BOD, Shaw, Roberts, Jones etc, after all the hard work and sublime talent they showed, do they blame him, and away from the cameras I can guarantee they'll rue his lack of thought for many a year to come. Calling for his retirement may seem cold, but that is a career defining moment, and he failed, yes he had good times, but he's cost Ireland, Munster and now the Lions as many games as he's saved. Sexon isn't the finished artical yet, but he's a bigger talent even at this developmental stage of his career than ROG is.

that's a great idea, i think he should retire too so then we loose 1 of the best kickers of the ball 1 of the best passers of the ball and the man who holds every record he could in europe, then bring in a young lad who has great potential hope he turns into the player we think he will and if he doesn't we can always bring ROG off the bench oh wait he's retired, so lets bring in keatly or maybe young humphries instead.
if ROG does retire it will be a massive loss to ireland and munster, no way he has lost more games than he has won have you never seen the passes he can trow to put away a runner or how many times he has kicked to the corner straight into an irish hand and then you have his accuracy out of hand to the line he is nowhere near retirement. i agree he is a very weak tackler and i am not his biggest fan either but as it stands there is no1 else, a good international team needs 2 out halves we have 1 and a half.
sexton needs to have o gara there it will push him on to be a better player and visa versa.
besides all that why should he retire he just got picked for the lions and won a grand slam with ireland this year, he should keep playing until he is not picked any more. he could easily play another 3 or 4 years and ireland don't have to pick him you do understand that is an option

You're talking past tense there, I presume?
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