IRB World Rankings

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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Cathalsmart » August 26th, 2017, 10:46 pm

Xanthippe wrote:At end of WRCW2017 the rankings are:

NZL.95.67
ENG 92.07
FRA 87.25
CAN 86.92
USA 79.41
AUS 78.68
WAL 75.65
ITA 73.92
IRL 73.02
ESP 72.13

We dropped from 5th to 9th :cry:


Its what we deserve for playing awful one dimensional rugby that belong's in the stone age's overseen by a coach who refuses to take any responsibility for the failing's of his team.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Ruckedtobits » August 27th, 2017, 11:01 am

Xanthippe wrote:
Xanthippe wrote:
jimbobjoe wrote:Will SA leapfrog us before the November internationals?



After week 2 of the Rugby Championship the men's rankings look like this

1. BNZ 95.21
2. ENG 90.14
3. RSA 85.65 (↑4)
4. IRL 85.39 (↓3)
5. AUS 84.21
6. SCO 82.47
7. WAL 81.73
8. FRA 79.63
9. FIJ 79.48
10. ARG 78.00


Fiji ahead of Argentina shows up one of the flaws in this ranking system. At present, Argentina's opposition in the Rugby Championship, combined with matches almost exclusivly against 6N teams means that their opportunity for wins in very limited.

On the other hand Fiji often face much softer opponents and perhaps one 6N team in Autumn. No way are Fiji a better team than Argentina at present.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Xanthippe » August 27th, 2017, 3:27 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:
Fiji ahead of Argentina shows up one of the flaws in this ranking system. At present, Argentina's opposition in the Rugby Championship, combined with matches almost exclusivly against 6N teams means that their opportunity for wins in very limited.

On the other hand Fiji often face much softer opponents and perhaps one 6N team in Autumn. No way are Fiji a better team than Argentina at present.


To be fair Argentina's 10th position is because they lost at home. If they won yesterday they be in 8th and Fiji would be in 10th.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby jimbobjoe » August 27th, 2017, 5:05 pm

Xanthippe wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:
Fiji ahead of Argentina shows up one of the flaws in this ranking system. At present, Argentina's opposition in the Rugby Championship, combined with matches almost exclusivly against 6N teams means that their opportunity for wins in very limited.

On the other hand Fiji often face much softer opponents and perhaps one 6N team in Autumn. No way are Fiji a better team than Argentina at present.


To be fair Argentina's 10th position is because they lost at home. If they won yesterday they be in 8th and Fiji would be in 10th.


Saw on twitter that Argentina have lost the last 11 (I think) consecutive games vs tier 1 opposition. They may not be worse than Fiji but they're probably where they should be right now.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby simonokeeffe » August 27th, 2017, 7:58 pm

Theyre at the bad end of a J curve or a crossroads or whatever metaphor you prefer

Picking players only based in Argentina/SH was damaged by not enabling more to play for non (or just the one) Argie Super Rugby teams and is damaged more by advent of global season. When that happens more players will leave for Europe and force an end to that policy.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Xanthippe » September 30th, 2017, 11:54 pm

Today’s draw between South Africa and Australia puts us back into 3rd place in the rankings
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Xanthippe » October 8th, 2017, 3:03 am

At the conclusion of the Rugby Championship the men's rankings look like this

1. BNZ 95.52
2. ENG 90.14
3. AUS 85.59
4. IRL 85.39
5. RSA 85.03
6. SCO 82.47
7. WAL 81.73
8. FRA 79.63
9. FIJ 79.48
10. ARG 76.930
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Ruckedtobits » October 8th, 2017, 6:29 am

What wonderful names amongst the Arg and Oz players: Jeronimo de la Fuente and Jack Dempsey. Eat your hearts out all you O'Brien, McGrath and Daly contenders!
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Fan with smartphone » November 10th, 2017, 8:33 pm

Can I ask here, who currently holds the Raeburn shield?

The lions? Australia? No-one? (it is imaginary like)
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Xanthippe » November 10th, 2017, 9:34 pm

Fan with smartphone wrote:Can I ask here, who currently holds the Raeburn shield?

The lions? Australia? No-one? (it is imaginary like)


Australia do - they won it from New Zealand on October 21st

New Zealand won it back from us on November 19th last year after we took it from them on November 5th.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby neill_m » November 11th, 2017, 12:49 am

Never heard of the Raeburn Shield. Fun idea. So Wales could take over Sat?


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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Fan with smartphone » November 11th, 2017, 1:50 am

Thanks xanthippe. Aye Neil, I personally like it and think it’s a bit under hyped (for want of a better word). Although I’m sure it wouldn’t be long getting hyped if the lions actually were indeed the holders.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Xanthippe » November 11th, 2017, 2:01 am

Fan with smartphone wrote:Thanks xanthippe. Aye Neil, I personally like it and think it’s a bit under hyped (for want of a better word). Although I’m sure it wouldn’t be long getting hyped if the lions actually were indeed the holders.


‘Technically’ the Lions could be the holders at the moment but, as a composite team, they are not allowed to compete for the Shield
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 12th, 2017, 11:14 pm

Undoubtedly the fastest climbers in the World Rankings tomorrow will be Conor O'Shea's Italy (14th) following their defeat of 9th ranked Fiji. Had Fiji won the game they would have climbed past France (8th) who suffered yet another defeat, at home to NZ.

Ranked almost 8.5 pts lower than Fiji, at 71.00 Italy will probably climb at least two spots to 12th, passing Tonga and Japan going the opposite direction.

Another country on the up may be Georgia (12th) who put more than 50 points on Canada who, not so long ago, were considered one of the countries who just might make the jump into permanent membership of the top dozen Nations.

Argentina and France are the two Tier 1 nations who will view tomorrow's rankings with little pleasure as both scamble to stay in the top 10. In fact, five of the top ten ranked nations lost over the weekend, SA, Wales, France, Fiji and Argentina, but only Fiji lost to a team ranked below them.

So, for the present, the actual rankings are interesting but not important, as RWC2019 seeding and draws have taken place. But be sure that in Board Rooms from Pretoria to Paris and Buenos Aires to Cardiff, there will be more than a whiff of concern and some may even be consulting the termination provisions in employment contracts.

'Caeser' will have no such concerns. In fact, O'Shea may well be licking his lips at having seen a game plan that he may try to replicate for the visit of the South Africans later in the month. He won't be the only Coach doing just that this week, but it's unlikely that either Noves or Gatland would feel quite so comfortable "phoningJoe" as O'Shea would.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Xanthippe » November 13th, 2017, 6:41 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Undoubtedly the fastest climbers in the World Rankings tomorrow will be Conor O'Shea's Italy (14th) following their defeat of 9th ranked Fiji. Had Fiji won the game they would have climbed past France (8th) who suffered yet another defeat, at home to NZ.

Ranked almost 8.5 pts lower than Fiji, at 71.00 Italy will probably climb at least two spots to 12th, passing Tonga and Japan going the opposite direction.
As Italy were the home team their pre match 71.00 ranking points was effectively 74.00 points so difference was only 5.5 and exchange of points was 1.55 which was enough to move them up to 13th past Tonga but no higher.

Another country on the up may be Georgia (12th) who put more than 50 points on Canada who, not so long ago, were considered one of the countries who just might make the jump into permanent membership of the top dozen Nations.
As Georgia were more than 10 points ahead of Canada they get absolutly nothing for their brilliant win

Argentina and France are the two Tier 1 nations who will view tomorrow's rankings with little pleasure as both scamble to stay in the top 10. In fact, five of the top ten ranked nations lost over the weekend, SA, Wales, France, Fiji and Argentina, but only Fiji lost to a team ranked below them.
RSA lost a full ranking point; Wales lost .74 of a point and Fiji lost 1.55 points. Neither France nor Argentina lost any points as they were playing far superior opposition

So, for the present, the actual rankings are interesting but not important, as RWC2019 seeding and draws have taken place. But be sure that in Board Rooms from Pretoria to Paris and Buenos Aires to Cardiff, there will be more than a whiff of concern and some may even be consulting the termination provisions in employment contracts.

'Caeser' will have no such concerns. In fact, O'Shea may well be licking his lips at having seen a game plan that he may try to replicate for the visit of the South Africans later in the month. He won't be the only Coach doing just that this week, but it's unlikely that either Noves or Gatland would feel quite so comfortable "phoningJoe" as O'Shea would.


1	NEW ZEALAND	93.80
2 ENGLAND 90.10
3 AUSTRALIA 88.00
4 IRELAND 86.40
5 SOUTH AFRICA 84.00
6 SCOTLAND 82.50
7 WALES 81.00
8 FRANCE 79.60
9 FIJI 77.90
10 ARGENTINA 76.90
11 JAPAN 73.80
12 GEORGIA 73.40
13 ITALY 72.60
14 TONGA 71.70
15 ROMANIA 70.30
16 SAMOA 69.70
17 USA 65.80
18 RUSSIA 64.10
19 URUGUAY 63.20
20 SPAIN 63.20
21 NAMIBIA 61.40
22 GERMANY 60.00
23 CANADA 59.50
24 HONG KONG 59.00
25 PORTUGAL 57.30
26 BELGIUM 56.90
27 CHILE 56.50
28 NETHERLANDS 54.70
29 KENYA 54.50
30 BRAZIL 54.20
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Oldschool » November 13th, 2017, 6:59 pm

If I understand it right Ireland will get no extra points if they beat Fiji and Argentina so we need Australia to lose a couple of games if we are to move up to 3rd seeds.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Xanthippe » November 13th, 2017, 7:37 pm

Oldschool wrote:If I understand it right Ireland will get no extra points if they beat Fiji and Argentina so we need Australia to lose a couple of games if we are to move up to 3rd seeds.


Yep - they'd have to lose to both England and Scotland before we'd see a change in our position (always assuming we don't fup up and manage to lose to either Fiji or Argentina)
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby jimbobjoe » November 14th, 2017, 1:21 am

What the flip has been happening Canada? I would've expected them to be somewhere between 15-20.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 14th, 2017, 7:58 am

Xanthippe wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:Undoubtedly the fastest climbers in the World Rankings tomorrow will be Conor O'Shea's Italy (14th) following their defeat of 9th ranked Fiji. Had Fiji won the game they would have climbed past France (8th) who suffered yet another defeat, at home to NZ.

Ranked almost 8.5 pts lower than Fiji, at 71.00 Italy will probably climb at least two spots to 12th, passing Tonga and Japan going the opposite direction.
As Italy were the home team their pre match 71.00 ranking points was effectively 74.00 points so difference was only 5.5 and exchange of points was 1.55 which was enough to move them up to 13th past Tonga but no higher.

Another country on the up may be Georgia (12th) who put more than 50 points on Canada who, not so long ago, were considered one of the countries who just might make the jump into permanent membership of the top dozen Nations.
As Georgia were more than 10 points ahead of Canada they get absolutly nothing for their brilliant win

Argentina and France are the two Tier 1 nations who will view tomorrow's rankings with little pleasure as both scamble to stay in the top 10. In fact, five of the top ten ranked nations lost over the weekend, SA, Wales, France, Fiji and Argentina, but only Fiji lost to a team ranked below them.
RSA lost a full ranking point; Wales lost .74 of a point and Fiji lost 1.55 points. Neither France nor Argentina lost any points as they were playing far superior opposition

So, for the present, the actual rankings are interesting but not important, as RWC2019 seeding and draws have taken place. But be sure that in Board Rooms from Pretoria to Paris and Buenos Aires to Cardiff, there will be more than a whiff of concern and some may even be consulting the termination provisions in employment contracts.

'Caeser' will have no such concerns. In fact, O'Shea may well be licking his lips at having seen a game plan that he may try to replicate for the visit of the South Africans later in the month. He won't be the only Coach doing just that this week, but it's unlikely that either Noves or Gatland would feel quite so comfortable "phoningJoe" as O'Shea would.


1	NEW ZEALAND	93.80
2 ENGLAND 90.10
3 AUSTRALIA 88.00
4 IRELAND 86.40
5 SOUTH AFRICA 84.00
6 SCOTLAND 82.50
7 WALES 81.00
8 FRANCE 79.60
9 FIJI 77.90
10 ARGENTINA 76.90
11 JAPAN 73.80
12 GEORGIA 73.40
13 ITALY 72.60
14 TONGA 71.70
15 ROMANIA 70.30
16 SAMOA 69.70
17 USA 65.80
18 RUSSIA 64.10
19 URUGUAY 63.20
20 SPAIN 63.20
21 NAMIBIA 61.40
22 GERMANY 60.00
23 CANADA 59.50
24 HONG KONG 59.00
25 PORTUGAL 57.30
26 BELGIUM 56.90
27 CHILE 56.50
28 NETHERLANDS 54.70
29 KENYA 54.50
30 BRAZIL 54.20


Thanks @Xanthippe. Great to have a factual explanation as to why such significant results don't move the rankings more markedly. We really are seeing a big separation between some of the big nations - notably France (8th) a full 10 points behind England (2nd) and almost the same gap between Ireland (4th) and Argentina (10th).

The games which could change significant rankings this weekend include Italy v Argentina, Scotland v NZ, England v Australia and France v NZ (tonight in Lyon).

Of these games, only Italy and Australia appear to have a chance to beat their higher ranked opponents, although the contest between the NZ and French second-strings could give the French a chance of redemption.
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Re: IRB World Rankings

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 14th, 2017, 8:42 am

BTW, O'Shea could be canonised by the end of the month as the Patron Saint of Italian Sport, if he can gets wins against Argentina and South Africa.

Italy is in despair about their national sports performances after the Azurris defeat to Sweden in the World Cup qualifier yesterday. Rugby could make enormous stides in popularity over the next two years if O'Shea can continue their progress.

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