Oldschool wrote:
However, by 2015, the likely OH's will be Sexton and Keatley. Neither is a Rog type OH. O'Connor, Jackson and Madigan are other possibilities.
None of the above can play the way Kidney prefers the game to be played, so something has to give.
His choice of OH's will define the team and he has find a new Captain and a new pack leader. (Not all at once BTW)
I wouldn't give it to POC, purely because there is a reasonable chance he won't be there.
Best, right now is the prime candidate, but Kidney has at least a year, I would think, to ponder his decision.
Could Donncha Ryan be a possibility?
Very interesting, I was really impressed by this guy's attitude at the world cup, he made a very positive impact of the bench everytime. The turnips should give him a prolonged run alongside POC, he brings great energy at lock.
I think we are in good fettle for 4 years time, the strength of the provinces will ensure that. You could make a team out of the squad members at present but there will be a few 18/19 year olds now, not really on our radar that will likely be international starters by then.
Oldschool wrote:Perhaps, the asst. coach positions need to be reviewed, as well. Would people want Schmidt involved? Would Kidney want him involved?
Could Feek do the whole forwards coach thing, for example. Would Kidney want him.
I would also prefer to stay with foreign coaches. They bring a lot more to the table, in terms of experience and openess.
As great as I think Schmidt would be for the Irish set up, I couldn't fathom losing him from Leinster for some time. I know some people almost deem it almost treasonous, but I'm a little more Leinster than I am Ireland.
I take it you're a foreign fan then?
I think we'll be in fairly good shape come 2015 bar maybe one/two postions. We've got some exceptional youngsters coming through who should be coming of age by then, off the top of my head guys like,
15 Conway
14 Gilroy
13 Griffin
12 Spence
11 O'Halloran
10 Madigan
9 McGrath - haven't seem him play but by all accounts a future international
8 Ruddock
7 Ryan
6 POM
5 Nagle
4 Foley
3 Maguire
2 Sherry
1 McAllister
16 Annet
17 Archer
18 DOC
19 Butler
20 Murray
21 Jackson
22 Macken/Marshall
Even if you just stuck with these kids, I reckon they'd be a pretty handy team in 4 years time. The main problem is the front 5 are still relatively very lightweight(bar Maguire and McAllister).
Anyway it's not like the current Ireland first 15 are ancient, I think our main problem is at 12(a proper 7 would be handy too though), D'Arcy simply can't cope with the modern centres anymore, guys like Rougerie, Frans Steyn, Roberts, Davies, Nonu, Tuilagi, Tindall etc, we need to stick a big young fella in there as soon as possible me thinks. What's the story with Eamon Sheridan, he's 6'4 and 110 kg, sounds promising?
Oldschool wrote:Perhaps, the asst. coach positions need to be reviewed, as well. Would people want Schmidt involved? Would Kidney want him involved?
Could Feek do the whole forwards coach thing, for example. Would Kidney want him.
I would also prefer to stay with foreign coaches. They bring a lot more to the table, in terms of experience and openess.
As great as I think Schmidt would be for the Irish set up, I couldn't fathom losing him from Leinster for some time. I know some people almost deem it almost treasonous, but I'm a little more Leinster than I am Ireland.
I take it you're a foreign fan then?
I think we'll be in fairly good shape come 2015 bar maybe one/two postions. We've got some exceptional youngsters coming through who should be coming of age by then, off the top of my head guys like,
15 Conway
14 Gilroy
13 Griffin
12 Spence
11 O'Halloran
10 Madigan
9 McGrath - haven't seem him play but by all accounts a future international
8 Ruddock
7 Ryan
6 POM
5 Nagle
4 Foley
3 Maguire
2 Sherry
1 McAllister
16 Annet
17 Archer
18 DOC
19 Butler
20 Murray
21 Jackson
22 Macken/Marshall
Even if you just stuck with these kids, I reckon they'd be a pretty handy team in 4 years time. The main problem is the front 5 are still relatively very lightweight(bar Maguire and McAllister).
Anyway it's not like the current Ireland first 15 are ancient, I think our main problem is at 12(a proper 7 would be handy too though), D'Arcy simply can't cope with the modern centres anymore, guys like Rougerie, Frans Steyn, Roberts, Davies, Nonu, Tuilagi, Tindall etc, we need to stick a big young fella in there as soon as possible me thinks. What's the story with Eamon Sheridan, he's 6'4 and 110 kg, sounds promising?
I think the temptation for an irish coach to engage in parochialism is too great. History backs up this view.
I think we need to put the horse before the cart before we can even begin to decide who will be part of the 2015 RWC squad and the intervening squads.
WE NEED TO DECIDE THAT WE ARE NO LONGER GOING TO PLAY DAMAGE LIMITATION 10 MAN RUGBY.
This has to be embraced and has to be the message sent to all the provinces. Then we have to get a coach who can implement the style of rugby we need to play to be successful (ie win things as opposed to one offs). If Kidney remains as coach, I just don't see him being able to adapt to an expansion style of rugby.
So, when extending Kidney's contract for two years, it would appear to me that the IRFU have already decided we will continue to play 10 MR.
This means we have already decided to fail for 2015. TC or GS days are now past, other teams are moving on already.
C'mon Leinster! At least the rugby will be entertaining and with the possibility of success.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
1. Cian Healy/Hurley
2. Jason H. Wright
3. Mike Ross/Jack McGrath
4. Ian Nagle/Holland
5. O'Connell/Doc
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Sean O'Brien/Donnacha Ryan
8. Jamie Heaslip/ Rys Ruddock
9. Conor Murray/Marshell
10. Ian Madigan/sexton
11. Felix jones/ Fitzgerald
12. Andrew Trimble
13. Darren Cave/McFadden
14. Tommy Bowe/
15. Keith Earls/Kearney
We need a a roberts/sonny bill at 12 to make space for 13 etc, madigan has the most potential at 10 great player..bit of pace and guile in back three is also required hopefully few more guys cone on the scene soon
caomhan wrote:1. Cian Healy/Hurley
2. Jason H. Wright
3. Mike Ross/Jack McGrath
4. Ian Nagle/Holland
5. O'Connell/Doc
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Sean O'Brien/Donnacha Ryan
8. Jamie Heaslip/ Rys Ruddock
9. Conor Murray/Marshell
10. Ian Madigan/sexton
11. Felix jones/ Fitzgerald
12. Andrew Trimble
13. Darren Cave/McFadden
14. Tommy Bowe/
15. Keith Earls/Kearney
We need a a roberts/sonny bill at 12 to make space for 13 etc, madigan has the most potential at 10 great player..bit of pace and guile in back three is also required hopefully few more guys cone on the scene soon
You have no No.7 in there. (loads of 6's and 8's though)
caomhan wrote:1. Cian Healy/Hurley
2. Jason H. Wright
3. Mike Ross/Jack McGrath
4. Ian Nagle/Holland
5. O'Connell/Doc
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Sean O'Brien/Donnacha Ryan
8. Jamie Heaslip/ Rys Ruddock
9. Conor Murray/Marshell
10. Ian Madigan/sexton
11. Felix jones/ Fitzgerald
12. Andrew Trimble
13. Darren Cave/McFadden
14. Tommy Bowe/
15. Keith Earls/Kearney
We need a a roberts/sonny bill at 12 to make space for 13 etc, madigan has the most potential at 10 great player..bit of pace and guile in back three is also required hopefully few more guys cone on the scene soon
Which is why I asked about Sheridan, the lad's a 6'4, 110kg inside centre. Just what the doctor ordered, he's only 22, and I know Schmidt was keen to use him last year but he got injured. Is he still injured or is he just not being used?
caomhan wrote:1. Cian Healy/Hurley
2. Jason H. Wright
3. Mike Ross/Jack McGrath
4. Ian Nagle/Holland
5. O'Connell/Doc
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Sean O'Brien/Donnacha Ryan
8. Jamie Heaslip/ Rys Ruddock
9. Conor Murray/Marshell
10. Ian Madigan/sexton
11. Felix jones/ Fitzgerald
12. Andrew Trimble
13. Darren Cave/McFadden
14. Tommy Bowe/
15. Keith Earls/Kearney
We need a a roberts/sonny bill at 12 to make space for 13 etc, madigan has the most potential at 10 great player..bit of pace and guile in back three is also required hopefully few more guys cone on the scene soon
Which is why I asked about Sheridan, the lad's a 6'4, 110kg inside centre. Just what the doctor ordered, he's only 22, and I know Schmidt was keen to use him last year but he got injured. Is he still injured or is he just not being used?
Another knee injury. Out til the new year at least. He's a big lad but he's basically been injured all the time for the last three years. Sad to say, but the writings on the wall for him.
HERE to now? The four-year cycle will begin from this day forth. Coach Declan Kidney, forwards guru Gert Smal and defence expert Les Kiss have signed on for another two years to walk Ireland halfway up the stairway to the heaven that is England in 2015.
The return of backs coach Alan Gaffney to Australia has left an opening for the last piece of the jigsaw.
Ireland need an innovative, creative thinker to transform what has become a predictable and uninspired backline.
Kidney should not delay in bringing Joe Schmidt -- if his Leinster contract permits -- into the golden circle as a renowned backs coach who believes in counter-attack.
History
Surely, Brian O'Driscoll, Ronan O'Gara, David Wallace, Mike Ross and Stephen Ferris, still a young man, will succumb in a game that is putting more stress on bones, ligaments and tendons than at any time in its history.
This is a possible Ireland side that might emerge over the next four years to represent the country at the next World Cup.
It contains eight starting players from the current tournament and seven additions, including Leinster's Luke Fitzgerald.
NB: The age of the players in 2015 has been included.
15
THE INCUMBENT: Rob Kearney, 29
THE UNDERSTUDY: Keith Earls, 28
THE PREDICTION: Rob Kearney, 29
British and Irish Lions full-back Kearney should be approaching his peak in four years' time. Once again, he showed his big-game temperament by getting better with every match in New Zealand.
14
THE INCUMBENT: Tommy Bowe, 31
THE UNDERSTUDY: Andrew Trimble, 30
THE PREDICTION: Nevin Spence, 25
Ulster's Spence (pictured left) is a super-aggressive, 15-stone centre for his province. Originally a wing, he lacks the skills of an international centre, but does have the speed to make it on the flank.
13
THE INCUMBENT: Brian O'Driscoll, 36
THE UNDERSTUDY: Keith Earls, 28
THE PREDICTION: Tommy Bowe, 31
The Ospreys man would do well to return to Ireland at the end of his contract in the summer of 2013 where the longevity of his career would be the priority of the IRFU under the Player Welfare Programme.
12
THE INCUMBENT: Gordon D'Arcy, 35
THE UNDERSTUDY: Fergus McFadden, 29
THE PREDICTION: Luke Fitzgerald, 28
Ireland have to manage what they have. If Fitzgerald can recover the form that made him a British and Irish Lion in 2009, his superior physicality and knifing tackle technique could see him return where he is impressing for Leinster right now.
11
THE INCUMBENT: Keith Earls, 28
THE UNDERSTUDY: Andrew Trimble, 30
THE PREDICTION: Keith Earls, 28
Munster's Earls finally got his way for Ireland, winning Kidney's approval as the
first-choice left wing at the World Cup ahead of Andrew Trimble, who made such a strong case for the same jersey.
10
THE INCUMBENT: Ronan O'Gara, 38
THE UNDERSTUDY: Jonathan Sexton, 30
THE PREDICTION: Jonathan Sexton, 30
The march of father time will take Ireland's record points-scorer out of the equation at a time when he shares the honour of being first choice with Sexton. This is not to say Sexton will have a free run to 2015. Ulster's Paddy Jackson, Leinster's Ian Madigan and Munster's Ian Keatley are maturing nicely.
9
THE INCUMBENT: Conor Murray, 26
THE UNDERSTUDY: Tomás O'Leary, 31
THE PREDICTION: Luke McGrath, 22
Ireland U18 Schools captain McGrath has been earmarked for great things. He has a low centre of gravity, immense strength, acceleration, speed of delivery and a quick mind all in the mould of 'The Little General' Morgan Parra.
1
THE INCUMBENT: Cian Healy, 28
THE UNDERSTUDY: Tom Court, 34
THE PREDICTION: Cian Healy, 28
Leinster prop Healy is streets ahead of the challengers as a prototype world-class modern-day loose-head. He can scrum, cover the ground quickly, carry with intensity and hit hard. He does it all.
2
THE INCUMBENT: Rory Best, 33
THE UNDERSTUDY: Sean Cronin, 29
THE PREDICTION: Richardt Strauss, 29
South African Strauss (pictured right) has been a fast learner, improving his throwing out of all recognition and providing an extra dimension as a former back-rower before he becomes Ireland-qualified under the three-year residency rule.
3
THE INCUMBENT: Mike Ross, 35
THE UNDERSTUDY: Tony Buckley, 35
THE PREDICTION: Adam Macklin, 26
Munster's Stephen Archer has a long way to go. Jamie Hagan is a solid scrummager with a lot to learn. Converted number eight Ulster's Adam Macklin is an interesting prospect even though his progress has been hampered by injury.
4
THE INCUMBENT: Donncha O'Callaghan, 36
THE UNDERSTUDY: Leo Cullen, 37
THE PREDICTION: Paul O'Connell, 35
The leadership skills and standards set by O'Connell will still make him irreplaceable. He will do a tremendous job as a tight forward with a narrower, more traditional role at number two.
5
THE INCUMBENT: Paul O'Connell, 35
THE UNDERSTUDY: Donnacha Ryan, 31
THE PREDICTION: Ian Nagle, 26
Munster forwards coach Anthony Foley has been slow to throw Nagle to the wolves. He has been brought along gradually as he builds muscle onto an athletic frame.
6
THE INCUMBENT: Stephen Ferris, 30
THE UNDERSTUDY: Donnacha Ryan, 31
THE PREDICTION: Dan Leavy, 21
At St Michael's College, there lurks a fierce prospect in Leavy, a relentlessly destructive blindside with immaculate hands and offloading subtleties. English club scouts were in a tizzy over his performance against England U18s last December.
7
THE INCUMBENT: Sean O'Brien, 28
THE UNDERSTUDY: David Wallace, 39
THE PREDICTION: Sean O'Brien, 28
A world-class groundhog seven is a rare treasure. That is why Ireland should and will persist with O'Brien in this position as a player who can provide go-forward and work adequately on the floor.
8
THE INCUMBENT: Jamie Heaslip, 31
THE UNDERSTUDY: Denis Leamy, 33
THE PREDICTION: Jamie Heaslip, 31
Heaslip has achieved so much in the game on a personal level and, yet, has so much to prove on the biggest stage in the game. He missed out on the World Cup four years ago. He will want to make a mark in 2015.
Leinster Lout wrote:
Kidney should not delay in bringing Joe Schmidt -- if his Leinster contract permits -- into the golden circle as a renowned backs coach who believes in counter-attack.
Leinster operate with no defence coach and no attack coach - Schmidt fulfils both these roles as head-coach. Alan Gaffney could afford to moonlight for a couple of years with Ireland [after Leinster had hired him as an attack coach] because Cheika was head coach and Kurt McQuilkin was defence coach. How the f*ck are Leinster supposed to operate with no head-coach, no attack coach and no defence coach when Schmidt is 'with Ireland'?
As I have said before, Schmidt's role with Leinster is as full-time as you can get. There's genuinely not enough hours in the day. The idea that the Irish backs would get dramatically better if he took a couple of afternoons off Leinster duties and showed them some moves and ran some drills is absolutely f*cking mental. He'd have to make a major time commitment, just as Kiss and Smal do. It is categorically not the same situation as Greg Feek finds himself in [again, hired by Leinster before the IRFU drafted him in] - is he Leinster's defence coach as well as their scrum coach? Is he the head coach of the European champions?
In fairness to the IRFU, I'm pretty sure that they don't think this way. This is more the operations theatre of p*ss-poor hacks!
LL, I presume from the formatting that this is an article that somebody else has written and you've copied and pasted. No offense taken, I hope.
Leinster Lout wrote:
Kidney should not delay in bringing Joe Schmidt -- if his Leinster contract permits -- into the golden circle as a renowned backs coach who believes in counter-attack.
Leinster operate with no defence coach and no attack coach - Schmidt fulfils both these roles as head-coach. Alan Gaffney could afford to moonlight for a couple of years with Ireland [after Leinster had hired him as an attack coach] because Cheika was head coach and Kurt McQuilkin was defence coach. How the f*ck are Leinster supposed to operate with no head-coach, no attack coach and no defence coach when Schmidt is 'with Ireland'?
I wonder what Leinster's try stats are like for when Gaffney wasn't around those weekends?
Leinster Lout wrote:
Kidney should not delay in bringing Joe Schmidt -- if his Leinster contract permits -- into the golden circle as a renowned backs coach who believes in counter-attack.
Leinster operate with no defence coach and no attack coach - Schmidt fulfils both these roles as head-coach. Alan Gaffney could afford to moonlight for a couple of years with Ireland [after Leinster had hired him as an attack coach] because Cheika was head coach and Kurt McQuilkin was defence coach. How the f*ck are Leinster supposed to operate with no head-coach, no attack coach and no defence coach when Schmidt is 'with Ireland'?
I wonder what Leinster's try stats are like for when Gaffney wasn't around those weekends?
2/3 experts feel there is a need for a psychologist in the camp. maybe not a bad idea at all, i'm surprised they didn't have one already. in fact i'm quite flabbergasted.
1/3 feels there is a need for tactical adjustment ... no sh!t! but i did smile (after i'd finished choking) when i read liam toland's comment:
Keep the main goal out front and rugby style and team selection will follow.
isn't that exactly the approach we've taken for god knows how long??
Declan Kidney is a incompetent, inept, provincially biased rugby dinosaur who is unfit to coach the Irish team.
Leinster Lout wrote:
Kidney should not delay in bringing Joe Schmidt -- if his Leinster contract permits -- into the golden circle as a renowned backs coach who believes in counter-attack.
Leinster operate with no defence coach and no attack coach - Schmidt fulfils both these roles as head-coach. Alan Gaffney could afford to moonlight for a couple of years with Ireland [after Leinster had hired him as an attack coach] because Cheika was head coach and Kurt McQuilkin was defence coach. How the f*ck are Leinster supposed to operate with no head-coach, no attack coach and no defence coach when Schmidt is 'with Ireland'?
As I have said before, Schmidt's role with Leinster is as full-time as you can get. There's genuinely not enough hours in the day. The idea that the Irish backs would get dramatically better if he took a couple of afternoons off Leinster duties and showed them some moves and ran some drills is absolutely f*cking mental. He'd have to make a major time commitment, just as Kiss and Smal do. It is categorically not the same situation as Greg Feek finds himself in [again, hired by Leinster before the IRFU drafted him in] - is he Leinster's defence coach as well as their scrum coach? Is he the head coach of the European champions?
In fairness to the IRFU, I'm pretty sure that they don't think this way. This is more the operations theatre of p*ss-poor hacks!
LL, I presume from the formatting that this is an article that somebody else has written and you've copied and pasted. No offense taken, I hope.
Attack and defence, and backs coaching are sorta the same thing, except in so far as the forwards spend time on exercises for forwards like lineouts and scrums while the backs work on moves off set pieces. If you're not playing 10-man rugby then it's only at set-piece time that the backs are together as a unit (and even that is becoming rarer at lineouts).Separate defence coaching was something that Woodward (etc.) used because they were able to bring it from league but didn't trust the coaches to have specialist knowledge of rugby union. But this was for a structured gameplan where there was a clearer divide. If you move the ball over a number of phases then you start mixing forwards and backs. If you don't, you still need to be able to defend against it.
It's hard to learn to defend against moves that you don't have the skill to execute. When you do them (and your regular opposition do) then you automatically get better at defending them. Opportunity knocks too infrequently to allow chances to pass because not everyone can execute when required. A defence coach who doesn't understand the attack isn't much use, an attack coach who doesn't understand every implication of the opposing defence's strategy is unlikely to be able to beat a half decent defence.
A lot of the defence coaches are becoming increasingly involved in running the backline when they have the ball (Kiss, Ford, Edwards etc.). That's what Schmidt is, he's a defence coach who's in charge of the backs coaching rather than having a defence coach who's subservient to a backs coach or a backs coach who covers defence. The way that we get around the inevitable delegation problems is that we have a skills coach: Richie Murphy.
Gaffney was (until this year) backs coach of Ireland and Leinster, an unusual situation that was partly due to the similarities between those two roles and was more feasible when it was easier to be away with the Ireland team and neglect Leinster.
Leinster have a different coaching structure from the traditional. We don't have the head coach and a hierarchical, narrowly defined coaching team with their own spheres of influence. There's a smaller core team with broader remits and we draw on a large pool of coaches like Kane and Farrell (video analysts).
For Ireland we have the situation where you have Kidney who has been a backs coach and is involved, you have Gaffney who's an old school coach with immense experience and you have Les Kiss who's a ex-rugby leaguer who specialises in defence.
berniemac67 wrote:
1/3 feels there is a need for tactical adjustment ... no sh!t! but i did smile (after i'd finished choking) when i read liam toland's comment:
Does that mean 2/3 feels there is a need for tactical adjustment?
2/3 just didn't see the need for tactical adjustment as being important enough to mention!!
Declan Kidney is a incompetent, inept, provincially biased rugby dinosaur who is unfit to coach the Irish team.
