Ireland 2015

[TerenureJim]

Unless they win the trophy I'd say Robbie Deans will get the P45 from Australia, ditto Graham Henry either of them would seem to be interesting options. Much as I hate Graham Henry.

Anyone know what David Knox is up to these days? He had our backline motoring pretty well and Drico seemed to like him until issues with Cheks boiled over...

[Ulster's Best]

Unless they win the trophy I'd say Robbie Deans will get the P45 from Australia, ditto Graham Henry either of them would seem to be interesting options. Much as I hate Graham Henry.

Anyone know what David Knox is up to these days? He had our backline motoring pretty well and Drico seemed to like him until issues with Cheks boiled over...

The day Irish rugby lowers itself to having trailer trash like David Knox anywhere near our national team will be a very sad day indeed and I will certainly attend no internationals if that is the case.

[berniemac67]

Unless they win the trophy I'd say Robbie Deans will get the P45 from Australia, ditto Graham Henry either of them would seem to be interesting options. Much as I hate Graham Henry.

Anyone know what David Knox is up to these days? He had our backline motoring pretty well and Drico seemed to like him until issues with Cheks boiled over...

The day Irish rugby lowers itself to having trailer trash like David Knox anywhere near our national team will be a very sad day indeed and I will certainly attend no internationals if that is the case.

Why such a strong reaction?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 399062.stm

He certainly had some strong views, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with most of what is attributed to him in that report. Remarkably prescient I'd say looking back at his remarks from 2011. Most of the points he made in 2008 are being repeated on here and elsewhere now after events of the past week.

[Ulster's Best]

Unless they win the trophy I'd say Robbie Deans will get the P45 from Australia, ditto Graham Henry either of them would seem to be interesting options. Much as I hate Graham Henry.

Anyone know what David Knox is up to these days? He had our backline motoring pretty well and Drico seemed to like him until issues with Cheks boiled over...

The day Irish rugby lowers itself to having trailer trash like David Knox anywhere near our national team will be a very sad day indeed and I will certainly attend no internationals if that is the case.

Why such a strong reaction?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 399062.stm

He certainly had some strong views, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with most of what is attributed to him in that report. Remarkably prescient I'd say looking back at his remarks from 2011. Most of the points he made in 2008 are being repeated on here and elsewhere now after events of the past week.

He was behaving disgracefully at Ravenhill one night - he sat in the main part of the stand and kept effing and blinding and hurling vile abuse at Ulster players (particularly a young lad Paul McKenzie who played on the wing) and jumping up and down and blocking people's views etc. When I challenged him about it, politely but firmly, he tore into me like a an absolute lunatic, hurling abuse etc with his eyes popping. He'd have hit me only a former Ulster player was was sitting a little way away intervened and he backed off.

[ceemec]

Why such a strong reaction?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 399062.stm

He certainly had some strong views, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with most of what is attributed to him in that report. Remarkably prescient I'd say looking back at his remarks from 2011. Most of the points he made in 2008 are being repeated on here and elsewhere now after events of the past week.

Is there truth in his views? Sure. Has he completely and utterly burned his bridges with Irish rugby by voicing them? Absolutely. No way could he come back and work with Ireland or one of the provinces after that. He roundly criticises DK, ROG and Munster's style of play. There are far too many people who would take that as a personal insult for Knox ever to be considered to be a viable option. It's a pity as he's a very talented backs coach but that stuff was off the wall; it will have made teams not just in Ireland a bit cautious of hiring him.

[berniemac67]

Why such a strong reaction?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 399062.stm

He certainly had some strong views, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with most of what is attributed to him in that report. Remarkably prescient I'd say looking back at his remarks from 2011. Most of the points he made in 2008 are being repeated on here and elsewhere now after events of the past week.

Is there truth in his views? Sure. Has he completely and utterly burned his bridges with Irish rugby by voicing them? Absolutely. No way could he come back and work with Ireland or one of the provinces after that. He roundly criticises DK, ROG and Munster's style of play. There are far too many people who would take that as a personal insult for Knox ever to be considered to be a viable option. It's a pity as he's a very talented backs coach but that stuff was off the wall; it will have made teams not just in Ireland a bit cautious of hiring him.

I wasn't saying he should even be considered. My comment referrred to UB's response, which sounds as if it may have been well founded.

I also wasn't saying his views were/are true, simply that 3+ years down the line a lot of people are echoing a number of the points he made back then.

His ad hominem attacks on ROG and DK may have been out of order (but are simply more extremem versions of what a lot of people are thinking), and Munster's style is effective so can't be knocked (or at least couldn't in 2008-2009). However, the point that we should have a foreign coach who is above provinical bias is a good one. I think we could thrive with a SH coach who picked based on form and merit, but I fear that the IRFU wouldn't be happy to run the risk of offending any individual province except Connacht of course.

Should he be considered as a candidate? Probably not, he ought to have been more diplomatic given his position. But some of his points may well be valid, and they should be taken on board.

[berniemac67]

What about Pat Howard?

Could be totally wrong, but I think Howard returned to Australia due to family reasons. He was involved with the ARU but I think he quit that too. I'm not sure if he has any involvement in pro rugby these days.

Ian Humphreys really enjoyed working with him at Leicester.

Interestingly, Pat Howard named general manger team performance of Cricket Australia. Now there's a team that has underwhelmed recently

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sp ... 6165900216

[suisse]

Why such a strong reaction?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 399062.stm

He certainly had some strong views, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with most of what is attributed to him in that report. Remarkably prescient I'd say looking back at his remarks from 2011. Most of the points he made in 2008 are being repeated on here and elsewhere now after events of the past week.

I'll never forget that. It was an awful time to be a Leinster fan. Every media hack in country jumped down our throats, even though it was one former employee who came out with the words. It's amazing how the same w&%ker hacks were salivating at our European come back in May.

I also remember a Munster fan coming on here and deriding our League win that year. The comment was made after Munster won the Euros and he/she did his/her best to down play any parallel between the two events; "That was a great day for Irish sport, wasn't it?" Even over a message board you feel the sarcasm coming through. I'm sure the same Munster 'fan' marveled at their League win last season?

A lot of what Knox says is kind of true, but, then, in his final season our backs didn't look too flashy. Dougie would have gotten nowhere near his 30 tries for Leinster. A 1/3 and he'd be doing well

[TerenureJim]

Why such a strong reaction?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 399062.stm

He certainly had some strong views, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with most of what is attributed to him in that report. Remarkably prescient I'd say looking back at his remarks from 2011. Most of the points he made in 2008 are being repeated on here and elsewhere now after events of the past week.

I'll never forget that. It was an awful time to be a Leinster fan. Every media hack in country jumped down our throats, even though it was one former employee who came out with the words. It's amazing how the same w&%ker hacks were salivating at our European come back in May.

I also remember a Munster fan coming on here and deriding our League win that year. The comment was made after Munster won the Euros and he/she did his/her best to down play any parallel between the two events; "That was a great day for Irish sport, wasn't it?" Even over a message board you feel the sarcasm coming through. I'm sure the same Munster 'fan' marveled at their League win last season?

A lot of what Knox says is kind of true, but, then, in his final season our backs didn't look too flashy. Dougie would have gotten nowhere near his 30 tries for Leinster. A 1/3 and he'd be doing well

Did you not pay attention to Tom McGurk and Hookie noting on RTÉ that what was the Magners league only really came of age and a trophy worth competing for in 2009

[Oldschool]

Were Kidney to take over the backs coaching role, the smart thing to do would be to feign injury and protect your reputation.

[Blåränderna]

Perhaps, the asst. coach positions need to be reviewed, as well. Would people want Schmidt involved? Would Kidney want him involved?
Could Feek do the whole forwards coach thing, for example. Would Kidney want him.
I would also prefer to stay with foreign coaches. They bring a lot more to the table, in terms of experience and openess.

As great as I think Schmidt would be for the Irish set up, I couldn't fathom losing him from Leinster for some time. I know some people almost deem it almost treasonous, but I'm a little more Leinster than I am Ireland.

[jezzer]

Why such a strong reaction?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 399062.stm

He certainly had some strong views, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with most of what is attributed to him in that report. Remarkably prescient I'd say looking back at his remarks from 2011. Most of the points he made in 2008 are being repeated on here and elsewhere now after events of the past week.

I'll never forget that. It was an awful time to be a Leinster fan. Every media hack in country jumped down our throats, even though it was one former employee who came out with the words. It's amazing how the same w&%ker hacks were salivating at our European come back in May.

I also remember a Munster fan coming on here and deriding our League win that year. The comment was made after Munster won the Euros and he/she did his/her best to down play any parallel between the two events; "That was a great day for Irish sport, wasn't it?" Even over a message board you feel the sarcasm coming through. I'm sure the same Munster 'fan' marveled at their League win last season?

A lot of what Knox says is kind of true, but, then, in his final season our backs didn't look too flashy. Dougie would have gotten nowhere near his 30 tries for Leinster. A 1/3 and he'd be doing well

Knox is an amazing backs coach but also a bit of a lunatic. Our backs weren't flashy in his last year because Brewer and Cheika completely emasculated them and the aerial ping-pong fest was then in full flow across the world (with the new ruck law interpretations). No doubt he's a brilliant backline tactician, but he's a total loose cannon as an individual and would NEVER succeed in the Irish job.

[berniemac67]

Were Kidney to take over the backs coaching role, the smart thing to do would be to feign injury and protect your reputation.

dead right. that or begin the 3 year qualifying period in italy.

[Oldschool]

Perhaps, the asst. coach positions need to be reviewed, as well. Would people want Schmidt involved? Would Kidney want him involved?
Could Feek do the whole forwards coach thing, for example. Would Kidney want him.
I would also prefer to stay with foreign coaches. They bring a lot more to the table, in terms of experience and openess.

As great as I think Schmidt would be for the Irish set up, I couldn't fathom losing him from Leinster for some time. I know some people almost deem it almost treasonous, but I'm a little more Leinster than I am Ireland.

I think Hugonaut pointed out, that it wasn't really feasible for Joe to do both jobs, so we really have to find someone else.

[artaneboy]

Why such a strong reaction?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 399062.stm

He certainly had some strong views, but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with most of what is attributed to him in that report. Remarkably prescient I'd say looking back at his remarks from 2011. Most of the points he made in 2008 are being repeated on here and elsewhere now after events of the past week.

Is there truth in his views? Sure. Has he completely and utterly burned his bridges with Irish rugby by voicing them? Absolutely. No way could he come back and work with Ireland or one of the provinces after that. He roundly criticises DK, ROG and Munster's style of play. There are far too many people who would take that as a personal insult for Knox ever to be considered to be a viable option. It's a pity as he's a very talented backs coach but that stuff was off the wall; it will have made teams not just in Ireland a bit cautious of hiring him.

I have to agree. There's whiff of sulphur about Knoxie. He was/ is brilliant as a backs coach, but he has serious baggage. The fact that he may have been proven right - a la ROG, should not blind us to the reality of his divisiveness. It just wouldn't work.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Knox is an amazing backs coach but also a bit of a lunatic. Our backs weren't flashy in his last year because Brewer and Cheika completely emasculated them and the aerial ping-pong fest was then in full flow across the world (with the new ruck law interpretations). No doubt he's a brilliant backline tactician, but he's a total loose cannon as an individual and would NEVER succeed in the Irish job.

Wasn't Knox sidelined in his last season? Could be wrong but not sure he was even going to the games by the end of the season. Not disagreeing that we moved to a more forward orientated game (which in hindsight was absolutely brilliant because it gave us such a solid base/hard edge with which we could work off) but I'm just not sure how responsible he was for the backs that season.

[jezzer]

I think we're kind of agreeing here. Knox got pushed out by cheika and brewer, who wanted us to have a harder edge.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I think we're kind of agreeing here. Knox got pushed out by cheika and brewer, who wanted us to have a harder edge.

Sorry I meant because of an outburst or something along those lines. Or am I completely imagining that that happened? I just have a vague recollection that there was an incident during the season and then we rarely saw Knox after that. I think we'd have moved to a more forward orientated game regardless though alright.

[Oldschool]

I think we're kind of agreeing here. Knox got pushed out by cheika and brewer, who wanted us to have a harder edge.

Sorry I meant because of an outburst or something along those lines. Or am I completely imagining that that happened? I just have a vague recollection that there was an incident during the season and then we rarely saw Knox after that. I think we'd have moved to a more forward orientated game regardless though alright.

Vaguely recollect, that there might have been a punch up involved. Knox was either, brave, stupid or both.

[Comer Toes]

However, by 2015, the likely OH's will be Sexton and Keatley. Neither is a Rog type OH. O'Connor, Jackson and Madigan are other possibilities.
None of the above can play the way Kidney prefers the game to be played, so something has to give.
His choice of OH's will define the team and he has find a new Captain and a new pack leader. (Not all at once BTW)
I wouldn't give it to POC, purely because there is a reasonable chance he won't be there.
Best, right now is the prime candidate, but Kidney has at least a year, I would think, to ponder his decision.
Could Donncha Ryan be a possibility?

Very interesting, I was really impressed by this guy's attitude at the world cup, he made a very positive impact of the bench everytime. The turnips should give him a prolonged run alongside POC, he brings great energy at lock.

I think we are in good fettle for 4 years time, the strength of the provinces will ensure that. You could make a team out of the squad members at present but there will be a few 18/19 year olds now, not really on our radar that will likely be international starters by then.

Jones/ Kearney, Trimble/ Conway, Bowe/ Spence, Marshall/ McFadden, Earls/ Macken, Sexton/Keatley/ Madigan, Murray/ ??
Healy/ McAllister/ McGrath, Sherry/ Cronin/ Strauss, Ross/ Hagan, POC/ Ryan/ Nagle/ Tuohy, Ferris/ SOB, D Ryan/ Falloon, O'Mahony/ Heaslip/ Connacht youngster, name escapes me

We'll definitely win it...