RWC 2023: Ireland

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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby neiliog93 » June 12th, 2017, 2:33 pm

No parties to the question, the UK, the unionists, nationalists, the EU or the Irish government, want a border back in Ireland. The Tories need the DUP's support, the latter of whom don't want a hard border. I just can't see an eventuality where the border returns. Honestly a lot of scaremongering that doesn't stack up to scrutiny.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby rooster » June 13th, 2017, 1:07 pm

neiliog93 wrote:No parties to the question, the UK, the unionists, nationalists, the EU or the Irish government, want a border back in Ireland. The Tories need the DUP's support, the latter of whom don't want a hard border. I just can't see an eventuality where the border returns. Honestly a lot of scaremongering that doesn't stack up to scrutiny.

If UK does not have free movement of people in their deal then there will have to be a hard border if not along the existing border then it will be ports and airports
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Dave Cahill » June 13th, 2017, 2:18 pm

rooster wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:No parties to the question, the UK, the unionists, nationalists, the EU or the Irish government, want a border back in Ireland. The Tories need the DUP's support, the latter of whom don't want a hard border. I just can't see an eventuality where the border returns. Honestly a lot of scaremongering that doesn't stack up to scrutiny.

If UK does not have free movement of people in their deal then there will have to be a hard border if not along the existing border then it will be ports and airports

And the UK electorate doesn't want free movement of people, particularly those of a more sallow complection
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby ronk » June 13th, 2017, 9:02 pm

The EU can do deals on recognising the status of the border but it wouldn't have much to do with the particulars of a hard border. It's up to member states to decide on how strictly to police it.

If something changes like tens of thousands of people start coming through Ireland into England then it might be on the radar but otherwise it's a footnote
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby rooster » June 14th, 2017, 10:09 am

ronk wrote:The EU can do deals on recognising the status of the border but it wouldn't have much to do with the particulars of a hard border. It's up to member states to decide on how strictly to police it.

If something changes like tens of thousands of people start coming through Ireland into England then it might be on the radar but otherwise it's a footnote

ROI has to police the border for goods being transported in and out of EU but UK will have to police people coming in and likewise ROI will have to check on those coming in from UK as they might not be eligible to visit EU.
All very difficult to do properly and we won't know till it actually happens
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby nc6000 » June 14th, 2017, 10:57 am

Not sure if it's been mentioned on here but I read somewhere that World Rugby maybe aren't too impressed that the 2020 Tokyo Olympics are overshadowing the 2019 RWC in Japan.

With Paris now looking likely to get the 2024 Olympic games I wonder will this go against the France 2023 bid?
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » June 14th, 2017, 5:37 pm

rooster wrote:
ronk wrote:The EU can do deals on recognising the status of the border but it wouldn't have much to do with the particulars of a hard border. It's up to member states to decide on how strictly to police it.

If something changes like tens of thousands of people start coming through Ireland into England then it might be on the radar but otherwise it's a footnote

ROI has to police the border for goods being transported in and out of EU but UK will have to police people coming in and likewise ROI will have to check on those coming in from UK as they might not be eligible to visit EU.
All very difficult to do properly and we won't know till it actually happens


It'll be ports and airports and we'll likely continue on the island much as we are, anything else is a useless waste of tax payers money to enforce a border that no one on the island wants which is an unintended result of a stupid unnecessary plebiscite now doubled down with an even worse call for an election where people who should know better have lost the run of themselves.

The DUP might get a sniff at power but I'm sure most senior Tories still couldn't locate Belfast on a map let alone realise that they're yet again verging on breaking the GFA by seeking the DUP support. The current political tragedy in the UK does not cease in its hilarity if only it wasn't so serious.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby arsebiscuits1 » June 15th, 2017, 1:01 pm

nc6000 wrote:Not sure if it's been mentioned on here but I read somewhere that World Rugby maybe aren't too impressed that the 2020 Tokyo Olympics are overshadowing the 2019 RWC in Japan.

With Paris now looking likely to get the 2024 Olympic games I wonder will this go against the France 2023 bid?


No way WR will want Olympics overshadowing the tournament twice in a row. It's their biggest (and if I am not mistaken only) source of income.

If France get the 2024 Olympics it's curtains for their 2023 bid. I assume that is why World Rugby moved the announcement, so they could see who actually gets it.

But why are France likely to get the Olympics? I would have thought LA would be massive favourites with infrastructure, population, USAs obsession with sport, and the fact it's an English speaking country

EDIT: Just seeing now LA have conceded 2024 according to the guardian...
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby rooster » June 15th, 2017, 3:25 pm

TerenureJim wrote:
rooster wrote:
ronk wrote:The EU can do deals on recognising the status of the border but it wouldn't have much to do with the particulars of a hard border. It's up to member states to decide on how strictly to police it.

If something changes like tens of thousands of people start coming through Ireland into England then it might be on the radar but otherwise it's a footnote

ROI has to police the border for goods being transported in and out of EU but UK will have to police people coming in and likewise ROI will have to check on those coming in from UK as they might not be eligible to visit EU.
All very difficult to do properly and we won't know till it actually happens


It'll be ports and airports and we'll likely continue on the island much as we are, anything else is a useless waste of tax payers money to enforce a border that no one on the island wants which is an unintended result of a stupid unnecessary plebiscite now doubled down with an even worse call for an election where people who should know better have lost the run of themselves.

The DUP might get a sniff at power but I'm sure most senior Tories still couldn't locate Belfast on a map let alone realise that they're yet again verging on breaking the GFA by seeking the DUP support. The current political tragedy in the UK does not cease in its hilarity if only it wasn't so serious.

Ports and airports on people, the movement of goods is a very tricky one to work out though unless UK stays in customs union which if it happens then they will have to pay into EU and give in on people movement which then makes you wonder why they wanted out.

On the DUP I have a feeling May will call their bluff as she is only in trouble if DUP vote with Labour and as long as Corbyn has SF links then that won't happen, DUP couldn't negotiate their way out of a wet paper bag.

To be honest I doubt it will pose any insurmountable problems with RWC no matter what happens
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Lar » June 15th, 2017, 3:52 pm

The maths suggest that even a deal with Plaid Cymru (I have zero idea what their policies are) would be enough for the Tories. They should certainly be playing that card in any discussions with the DUP.

Sinn Fein will never take their seats so the Commons effectively has 643 seats and 322 is therefore a majority not necessarily 326. Tories and PC have that magic figure. Admittedly only just, but surely enough for Teresa May not to be too cap in hand to the DUP.

Oh, and on topic, I really don't see Brexit, hard or soft being an issue for the RWC in 2023 being awarded to Ireland or not. It will succeed or fail on other grounds.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby bonzo » June 15th, 2017, 5:11 pm

Lar wrote:The maths suggest that even a deal with Plaid Cymru (I have zero idea what their policies are) would be enough for the Tories. They should certainly be playing that card in any discussions with the DUP.

Sinn Fein will never take their seats so the Commons effectively has 643 seats and 322 is therefore a majority not necessarily 326. Tories and PC have that magic figure. Admittedly only just, but surely enough for Teresa May not to be too cap in hand to the DUP.

Oh, and on topic, I really don't see Brexit, hard or soft being an issue for the RWC in 2023 being awarded to Ireland or not. It will succeed or fail on other grounds.

It would be an epic troll to be fair if Sinn Féin showed up just that one day to vote against May

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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Peg Leg » June 15th, 2017, 6:42 pm

bonzo wrote:
Lar wrote:The maths suggest that even a deal with Plaid Cymru (I have zero idea what their policies are) would be enough for the Tories. They should certainly be playing that card in any discussions with the DUP.

Sinn Fein will never take their seats so the Commons effectively has 643 seats and 322 is therefore a majority not necessarily 326. Tories and PC have that magic figure. Admittedly only just, but surely enough for Teresa May not to be too cap in hand to the DUP.

Oh, and on topic, I really don't see Brexit, hard or soft being an issue for the RWC in 2023 being awarded to Ireland or not. It will succeed or fail on other grounds.

It would be an epic troll to be fair if Sinn Féin showed up just that one day to vote against May

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Which kinda makes the point that 326 IS needed or SF will have the deciding vote on whatever topic takes their fancy enough to use their vote.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby FLIP » June 15th, 2017, 7:41 pm

Peg Leg wrote:
bonzo wrote:
Lar wrote:The maths suggest that even a deal with Plaid Cymru (I have zero idea what their policies are) would be enough for the Tories. They should certainly be playing that card in any discussions with the DUP.

Sinn Fein will never take their seats so the Commons effectively has 643 seats and 322 is therefore a majority not necessarily 326. Tories and PC have that magic figure. Admittedly only just, but surely enough for Teresa May not to be too cap in hand to the DUP.

Oh, and on topic, I really don't see Brexit, hard or soft being an issue for the RWC in 2023 being awarded to Ireland or not. It will succeed or fail on other grounds.

It would be an epic troll to be fair if Sinn Féin showed up just that one day to vote against May

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Which kinda makes the point that 326 IS needed or SF will have the deciding vote on whatever topic takes their fancy enough to use their vote.


They'd have to be sworn in first and they won't do that.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby blockhead » June 15th, 2017, 8:40 pm

FLIP wrote:They'd have to be sworn in first and they won't do that.

They could cross their fingers behind their backs.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Peg Leg » June 15th, 2017, 8:43 pm

FLIP wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:
bonzo wrote:It would be an epic troll to be fair if Sinn Féin showed up just that one day to vote against May

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Which kinda makes the point that 326 IS needed or SF will have the deciding vote on whatever topic takes their fancy enough to use their vote.


They'd have to be sworn in first and they won't do that.

They would do anything for love...
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby rooster » June 16th, 2017, 8:12 am

FLIP wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:
bonzo wrote:[quote="Lar"]The maths suggest that even a deal with Plaid Cymru (I have zero idea what their policies are) would be enough for the Tories. They should certainly be playing that card in any discussions with the DUP.

Sinn Fein will never take their seats so the Commons effectively has 643 seats and 322 is therefore a majority not necessarily 326. Tories and PC have that magic figure. Admittedly only just, but surely enough for Teresa May not to be too cap in hand to the DUP.

Oh, and on topic, I really don't see Brexit, hard or soft being an issue for the RWC in 2023 being awarded to Ireland or not. It will succeed or fail on other grounds.

It would be an epic troll to be fair if Sinn Féin showed up just that one day to vote against May

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Which kinda makes the point that 326 IS needed or SF will have the deciding vote on whatever topic takes their fancy enough to use their vote.


They'd have to be sworn in first and they won't do that.[/quote]

Absolutely no chance as that would make them part of a government they don't recognise due to it governing NI, they do however accept the wages and expenses from it and claim it is essential for them to go over there to put their views forward to any MP's who will listen .
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby fourthirtythree » June 16th, 2017, 1:12 pm

rooster wrote:
Absolutely no chance as that would make them part of a government they don't recognise due to it governing NI, they do however accept the wages and expenses from it and claim it is essential for them to go over there to put their views forward to any MP's who will listen .


They are parties to the Good Friday Agreement and therefore have formally recognised the current government of NI, what they won't do is recite an oath of allegiance to the queen. They aren't entitled to MP salaries due to not attending, so they don't get to accept them. Apart from that you are correct.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Ruckedtobits » June 27th, 2017, 8:20 am

Bookies don't often get it wrong, not even South African ones!

Ireland are being quoted at 1/2 with France second favourites at 9/4 and South African outsiders. That's a big advantage in a three horse race and pre-match SA V Fr in Pretoria last weekend was full of knowledgible speculation about this contest with insiders saying it was Ireland's to lose.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Fred Funk » June 27th, 2017, 9:48 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:Bookies don't often get it wrong, not even South African ones!

Ireland are being quoted at 1/2 with France second favourites at 9/4 and South African outsiders. That's a big advantage in a three horse race and pre-match SA V Fr in Pretoria last weekend was full of knowledgible speculation about this contest with insiders saying it was Ireland's to lose.

Sorry for asking, when is D Day?

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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby cormac » June 27th, 2017, 10:06 am

Fred Funk wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:Bookies don't often get it wrong, not even South African ones!

Ireland are being quoted at 1/2 with France second favourites at 9/4 and South African outsiders. That's a big advantage in a three horse race and pre-match SA V Fr in Pretoria last weekend was full of knowledgible speculation about this contest with insiders saying it was Ireland's to lose.

Sorry for asking, when is D Day?

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