RWC 2023: Ireland

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cormac
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by cormac »

MelbourneRebel wrote:Only once has a Rugby World Cup in Europe clashed overlapped the GAA calendar.
Yes, but it was the last one and so will the competition in England in 2015.

There are plenty of options for the GAA in terms of moving the schedule slightly, they did it in 2006 to avoid a clash with the Ryder Cup and they've done it again this year due to that Eucharistic Congress that took place in Croke Park. At the very least they have the option of moving the camogie and women's football finals to Thurles (or elsewhere) and even the possibility of moving the hurling and football finals there too.

Not sure what the story is with the RWC authorities needing exclusive rights to a stadium during the tournament but I'd imagine there are ways for both RWC Ltd and the GAA to get around it.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by IanD »

Sounds very positive to me.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/other/2012/ ... -interest/

GAA president Liam O’Neill has said that Central Council’s decision to back the IRFU’s Rugby World Cup 2023 bid was of ‘national interest.’
At next year’s Congress, the Council will seek permission to use up to six GAA grounds as part of the IRFU bid to stage the 2023 competition.
Croke Park, which would stage the final if the bid was successful, has already been made available to other sports, but a change of rules are needed to make the other grounds available.
The other grounds are thought to be Semple Stadium, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Limerick’s Gaelic Grounds, Fitzgerald Stadium and Casement Park, which is due to be redeveloped.
O’Neill told the Independent: "In an organisation of our size, you're going to get different views but it was significant that it (World Cup proposal) was passed unanimously by Central Council.
"The organisation has always been willing to put the country first. We've always been willing to put the national interest ahead of our own narrow interest and we were proud to do it the last time (opening Croke Park)."
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by cormac »

IanD wrote:Sounds very positive to me.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/other/2012/ ... -interest/

GAA president Liam O’Neill has said that Central Council’s decision to back the IRFU’s Rugby World Cup 2023 bid was of ‘national interest.’
At next year’s Congress, the Council will seek permission to use up to six GAA grounds as part of the IRFU bid to stage the 2023 competition.
Croke Park, which would stage the final if the bid was successful, has already been made available to other sports, but a change of rules are needed to make the other grounds available.
The other grounds are thought to be Semple Stadium, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Limerick’s Gaelic Grounds, Fitzgerald Stadium and Casement Park, which is due to be redeveloped.
O’Neill told the Independent: "In an organisation of our size, you're going to get different views but it was significant that it (World Cup proposal) was passed unanimously by Central Council.
"The organisation has always been willing to put the country first. We've always been willing to put the national interest ahead of our own narrow interest and we were proud to do it the last time (opening Croke Park)."
It'll be a good deal for the GAA as they'll find it easier to get funding for the redevelopment of a few of those stadia from the Irish and NI government/executive if they're part of a RWC bid.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by TerenureJim »

It really would be great for regional towns and cities if the like of Derry/Letterkenny, Cavan, Sligo, Galway, Waterford etc etc could get in on this. Obviously Dublin is the star attraction with Croker, Lansdowne, RDS and potentially Donnybrook and Tallaght all capable of hosting games of various sizes. But I think the bigger the better in terms of stadia we use as there will be huge interest in all games from local and travelling fans and I'd guess we'll be hard put to find an empty seat if this goes ahead given numbers that will travel from UK and France at the least.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by cormac »

Bored at work waiting for a meeting that probably won't even happen, so thought I'd jot down a few thoughts on Ireland hosting a RWC in 2023 or 2027.

Stadiums

Clearly we need co-operation from the GAA to host this tournament. It seems that this is far more possible than I'd imagined it would be with the Central Council recommendation last weekend sending out a positive signal. Hopefully the rank-and-file GAA members feel likewise and thus we have a potential bid.

Looking at the last three World Cups the average capacity per stadium was:

2003 Australia 37.7k - 11 venues in 10 different cities/towns. Biggest was 83.5k in Sydney, 3 had capacities of 20k or less (Wollongong, Gosford and Launceston). These three stadiums hosted 6 games altogether.
2007 France 49k average capacity - 12 venues (10 in France with avg cap of 45k) - largest was Stade de France, smallest was 33.9k in Montpellier.
2011 New Zealand 29k average - 12 venues (originally 13) with largest of 60k (included temp seats) and lowest of 15k. Five stadiums of 22k or less capacity were used, smallest was 15k in Palmerston North.

I'm not sure if the IRB will award another World Cup to a country where the average capacity is in line with New Zealand. I'd imagine we'd need to match Australia's numbers and the closer we could get to the 2007 averages the better it would be for our bid.

The rugby/football stadiums that could be used are as follows (I've included total seating where I have the figure):

Lansdowne Road 51,700 (all-seater)
Thomond Park 26,500 (15,100 seated)
RDS 18,500 (16,500 seated)
Windsor Park 12,342 (all-seater)
Ravenhill 12,300 (3,000 seated)

I've not listed any stadium with a current capacity of less than 10k (such as Musgrave Pk, Sportsgrounds or Tallaght). Ravenhill is currently in development and will have a capacity of 18k when finished, presumably with a much higher proportion of seats/standing. RDS in talks to increase capacity with a new Anglesea Stand (circa 23k) with potential for further development at either end of the stadium. Not sure if anything will happen with Windsor Park, but at current size it's too small to consider. Talks around development of Musgrave Park to 18k or so.

Current GAA stadiums that would merit consideration include:

Croke Park 82,500 (69,000 seated or all-seater cap of 75,000)
Semple Stadium 55,000 (36,000 seated)
Gaelic Grounds Limerick 49,500 (35,000 seated)
Pairc Ui Chaoimh 43,500 (19,500 seated)
Fitzgerald Stadium Killarney 43,000 (9,000 seated)
McHale Park Castlebar 42,000 (all-seater) - anyone know if this has been completed?
St. Tiernach's Park Clones 36,000 (?)
Pearse Stadium Galway - 36,000 (8,000 seated)
Breffni Park Cavan 32,000 (6,000 seated)
Casement Park Belfast 32,000 (8,000 seated)
Nowlan Park Kilkenny 30,000 (19,000 seated)
Hyde Park Roscommon 30,000 (?)
Pairc Tailteann Navan 30,000 (?)

There are also stadiums in Ennis, Portlaoise, Omagh and Wexford with capacities of 25k or higher.

We would probably require 11-12 stadiums for a complete bid, so potentially five rugby grounds (LR, TP, RDS, RH and MP) plus 6/7 GAA grounds.

Stadium Upgrades

Of the five rugby stadiums, Lansdowne and Thomond will need relatively little or nothing by way of an upgrade. Ravenhill is currently undergoing an upgrade and the RDS is sourcing private funding for its own development, so only Musgrave Park would require much in the way of public funding.

Of the seven GAA stadiums, most would require an upgrade of sorts, from next-to-nothing (Croke Park) to complete redevelopment (Pairc Ui Chaoimh). It's important that there is a decent spread of stadiums across the country, to ensure that most areas benefit and that visitors are spread around the country, especially during the group stages. As such the seven GAA venues I'd select are Croke Park, Gaelic Grounds, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Fitzgerald Stadium, Pearse Stadium, McHale Park and Casement Park. (I've deliberately omitted Semple Stadium due to another issue - will discuss shortly). Taking current capacities in GAA stadiums and revised capacities of 18k (Ravenhill and Muzzer) and 23k (RDS), that gives us an average of 38.8k, roughly similar to Australia 2003.

It's fairly clear that there would need to be a major overhaul of some of the GAA stadia, particularly in Cork, Killarney, Galway and Belfast. In particular the ratio of seats/standing needs to be redressed drastically in favour of seating without having a massive impact on capacity. Obviously there would need to be discussion with UK Govt/NI Exec re development in Belfast but it would be a lesser bid without a decent sized stadium in the North and Ravenhill's capacity is too low for big matches. Clearly government funding for the redevelopment of the stadiums in the ROI would be a huge issue, even if the economy improves. This issue alone could break the back of any bid.

Timing/Clean Stadiums

Unless informed otherwise I think it's fair to say the tournament is likely to be scheduled in the same September/October window that the last two have taken place in. Certainly I can't picture the NH clubs agreeing to it being later in the season, given they'd lose players for a huge amount of time. That, of course, creates a big problem as September is a massive month for the GAA. Croke Park has, of course, staged soccer and rugby internationals within 24 hours of each other before, but RWC Ltd insist on clean stadiums for the duration of the tournament (remember NZ losing co-hosting rights in 2003?) and clearly this would be an issue for the GAA. The bid has to include Croke Park as it's the only stadium capable of holding the final (min requirement of 60k capacity for final venue), so the issue then is what do the GAA do about their finals. One option is to move all their finals to Semple Stadium (hurling fraternity would love this) - biggest issue probably capacity for football final. Another option may be to play football final on first weekend of September (essentially swap schedule with hurling for the season) in Croke Park before RWC starts with other finals then played in Thurles.

Pro12

Assuming we still have the current NH season format, there would be an issue with the playing of Pro12 games in Ireland during the RWC. RWC Ltd ensure that there are no domestic games being played during the RWC in the host country. May mean Irish sides having to play a load of away games during the tournament.

Infrastructure

This has improved considerably over the last 10-15 years but there's still much to improve. The spread of 12 stadiums in use in my plan is Dublin x3, Cork x2, Belfast x2, Limerick x2, Killarney, Galway and Castlebar. It looks a little lop-sided but the smaller grounds in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Belfast would probably be hosting no more than 10 games between them. Transport links to the likes of Killarney, Limerick and Castlebar would also need to be upgraded, particularly in terms of the rail network which is a 19th century shambles. The road network along the west coast could also use an upgrade, while total accommodation in some cities/towns would need to be looked at. Improvements to airports in Galway and Farranfore would probably be needed too.

Have to say I'm more optimistic about this happening than I was a few months back. Hope the GAA and government feel the same way.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by sheepshagger »

My biggest concern with any bid is would our politicians play their part or would it just be an excuse for some ministers to get brownie points for their constituents by not a thinkimg in the best interests of the country?

You'd need to get people with proven track records in business involved, not people like the task force set up to look into SMEs and bank finance... Consists of a handful of ex trade unionists and an ex school teacher - the blind leading the blind!
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by ronk »

The other factor is co-hosting. Moving group games to other countries is something that's potentially popular with them and with us, though it does introduce pitfalls.

At the last RWC there were 4 pools, 10 games per pool. 40 games. Knockout stages represent 8 more games (4 quarter-finals, 2 semis, final and playoff).

If we could negotiate to get sufficient income from other unions, we could host out a pool or two. That 10 games would include 4 home games for the hosting nation so it would be attractive and we can safely assume full stadia for those. That would reduce both in the influx of visitors and our available income so there would be drawbacks.

The GAA have difficulty lending stadia they own, but it's not the same when it comes to sharing stadia someone else owns. In Cork and Belfast in particular it might be possible to come to an arrangement and come up with something more ambitious, then having a joint (or independent) ownership structure for the venue in question.

11 years creates opportunities both for expansion and for new stadia. Why not have another look at Croke Park and Aviva? Both have partially open ends that could be closed and the RWC would the best excuse we'll ever get to actually go out and do something about it. Yes, there are site restrictions but the land costs will never be lower and the political momentum would be hard to surpass. It'll cost a lot less than it would have done when it was last really talked about. If we were seriously going after the RWC, why not go about it properly and have a 100k Croke Park or a 65k Lansdowne Road.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by TerenureJim »

Nothing against the Scots or Welsh but I think we should go all out for a solo bid, North & South coming together to throw a month long party for the rugby world that will showcase everything good about the country and sport we all love and leave a great legacy in terms of sports infrastructure throughout the country for all the major field sports.

The more I think about this the more I want it to happen and the more I want to do something to try and make it happen.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by Degz »

I would have thought the Saffers would be nailed on for 2023, so Eurpoe's next shot would be 2027, by which point Italy may have the momentum.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by TerenureJim »

Degz wrote:I would have thought the Saffers would be nailed on for 2023, so Eurpoe's next shot would be 2027, by which point Italy may have the momentum.
Very dependable on the political situation there, plus I'm sure from a bums on seats point of view the IRB will want to see very full stadia which would happen here for all games, even minnow games would see good attendnace but you could be hard pressed to see crowds pack smaller games in SA or Argentina given the costs to travel and relatively low local interest.

Given the poor attendance at the Lions 2009 by locals (outside of the second test) I'd say SA would need to get their arse in gear if they were looking at hosting, and don't forget the Lions is only once eery 12 years and has a longer history and significant importance in SA.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by domhnallj »

TerenureJim wrote:
Degz wrote:I would have thought the Saffers would be nailed on for 2023, so Eurpoe's next shot would be 2027, by which point Italy may have the momentum.
Very dependable on the political situation there, plus I'm sure from a bums on seats point of view the IRB will want to see very full stadia which would happen here for all games, even minnow games would see good attendnace but you could be hard pressed to see crowds pack smaller games in SA or Argentina given the costs to travel and relatively low local interest.

Given the poor attendance at the Lions 2009 by locals (outside of the second test) I'd say SA would need to get their arse in gear if they were looking at hosting, and don't forget the Lions is only once eery 12 years and has a longer history and significant importance in SA.

Wasn't that because SARU (or the local organisers) set the ticket prices way too high? Whether gauging the locals will mitigate against a SA proposal is another matter.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by Schumi »

Degz wrote:I would have thought the Saffers would be nailed on for 2023, so Eurpoe's next shot would be 2027, by which point Italy may have the momentum.
Either 2023 or 2027 is bound to be in Europe, there's no way there'll be three in a row away from the biggest market. England having 2015 and France having had 2007, it's really between us and Italy to be main hosts. Neither will have any problem with stadia so it's down to politics. I have an idea that France owe us a vote as we didn't host any games in 2007 and giving a few games to Wales or Scotland could get them onside too
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by Fireworks »

I would hate for our bid to end up tangled in horse trading of giving pools or games to other unions. We should build a bid now and market it so strongly that it is the only show in town. I think it is a huge opportunity for the country. Being in the northern hemisphere and being generally liked by most people we should attract huge crowds and have the possibility of making this a very profitable event.

I would agree that we need to keep the usual suspects away from anything to do with its planning or running. School teachers and trade unionists are welcome if they happen to also have a background in running a major sporting event or company.

There is the scheduling problem for the GAA but the suggestion of playing the hurling in Thurles and moving the football is a good one. I also think that as part of the half time shows there could be hurling displays between kids teams. This would help the GAA to sell this to their members as the game would be promoted world wide.

Either 2023 or 2027 is fine by me as long as we get it all here.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by Degz »

Schumi wrote:
Degz wrote:I would have thought the Saffers would be nailed on for 2023, so Eurpoe's next shot would be 2027, by which point Italy may have the momentum.
Either 2023 or 2027 is bound to be in Europe, there's no way there'll be three in a row away from the biggest market. England having 2015 and France having had 2007, it's really between us and Italy to be main hosts. Neither will have any problem with stadia so it's down to politics. I have an idea that France owe us a vote as we didn't host any games in 2007 and giving a few games to Wales or Scotland could get them onside too
2015 is England, and 2019 is the development World Cup in Japan. That means it won't have been in a 3N country since NZ, and SA are next in line so they'll get 2023, should they bid (which I'm assuming they will). Then it will be back to Europe, and probably either Ireland (and some Celtic groups) or Italy. 2031 will be another development cup in Either USA/Canada or maybe Argentina.

FACT!
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by blues_fan »

Degz wrote:
Schumi wrote:
Degz wrote:I would have thought the Saffers would be nailed on for 2023, so Eurpoe's next shot would be 2027, by which point Italy may have the momentum.
Either 2023 or 2027 is bound to be in Europe, there's no way there'll be three in a row away from the biggest market. England having 2015 and France having had 2007, it's really between us and Italy to be main hosts. Neither will have any problem with stadia so it's down to politics. I have an idea that France owe us a vote as we didn't host any games in 2007 and giving a few games to Wales or Scotland could get them onside too
2015 is England, and 2019 is the development World Cup in Japan. That means it won't have been in a 3N country since NZ, and SA are next in line so they'll get 2023, should they bid (which I'm assuming they will). Then it will be back to Europe, and probably either Ireland (and some Celtic groups) or Italy. 2031 will be another development cup in Either USA/Canada or maybe Argentina.

FACT!
C'mon it's SARU we're talking about here. If the IRFU can't even outmanoeuvre those witless lemmings, they've no hope of organising a decent tournament.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by MelbourneRebel »

I doubt SA could afford to host the RWC. They may have much bigger problems by 2023 also.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by Cianostays »

With regards to the clean stadium for Croke Park, the hurling final, usually, takes place on the first Sunday in September followed by the Camogie, Football and Ladies Football Finals on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Sundays. In 2023 that would see the hurling final scheduled for September 3rd.

The GAA could have a double header on that date, with the Camogie Final being brought forward (or play the hurling finals on the Saturday and the Camogie finals on the Sunday). Similar approach could be adopted for the Football and Ladies Football finals for the following weekend and the stadium would be free for an opening RWC match on Friday September 15th.

The bonus of that approach for the Association is that all the finals can still be played in Croke Park. That would leave Croke Park free for the duration of a six week tournament finishing up on the last weekend in October :D
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by Sea_point »

If the RWC bid does come to pass and is accepted, it would be extremely disappointing if by the time of the event itself that the Galway Sportsground wasn't in a position to host one of the lesser group games through some continued development and the addition of temporary stands to bring the capacity up to the minimum acceptable capacity - probably 20,000.

There is precedent, at RWC2011 in NZ where there were three smaller stadiums utilised
  • *Arena Manawatu, Palmerston North (15,000 capacity) for Argentina v Georgia and Georgia v Romania
    *Northland Events Centre , Whangarei (18,000 capacity) for Tonga's games v Canada & Japan
    *Trafalgar Park, Nelson (18,000 capacity) for Italy games v Russia & USA and also Australia v Russia,
There will be teams qualifying that will not bring much support with them, and fixtures which attract only the purists and would be lost in a stadium over 20,000. And while The Sportsground isn't everyone's cup of tea because of the dog track, it's not an insurmountable problem though and the fact remains it has for seven or eight decades been the home of Connacht Rugby and will be for the foreseeable future.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by neilinboston »

Sea_point wrote:If the RWC bid does come to pass and is accepted, it would be extremely disappointing if by the time of the event itself that the Galway Sportsground wasn't in a position to host one of the lesser group games through some continued development and the addition of temporary stands to bring the capacity up to the minimum acceptable capacity - probably 20,000.

There is precedent, at RWC2011 in NZ where there were three smaller stadiums utilised
  • *Arena Manawatu, Palmerston North (15,000 capacity) for Argentina v Georgia and Georgia v Romania
    *Northland Events Centre , Whangarei (18,000 capacity) for Tonga's games v Canada & Japan
    *Trafalgar Park, Nelson (18,000 capacity) for Italy games v Russia & USA and also Australia v Russia,
There will be teams qualifying that will not bring much support with them, and fixtures which attract only the purists and would be lost in a stadium over 20,000. And while The Sportsground isn't everyone's cup of tea because of the dog track, it's not an insurmountable problem though and the fact remains it has for seven or eight decades been the home of Connacht Rugby and will be for the foreseeable future.
I have to agree with this, if we're going to promote the GAA in order to get the use of their stadia, surely we should be promoting the 4 Irish provinces teams also. As much as it would be appealing to the GAA to get some exposure to the worldwide audience, it would be equally appealing to build some local momentum in Connacht.
And if we could see Dan Carter (he may not still be around at that stage... or he may have ROG genes) have the ball blown back through the posts after a conversion all the better!
We'd have to assume that Connacht would see a lot of tourism benefit regardless, but Irish rugby would benefit hugely from having four competitive teams, possibly opening the door for a 5th development team for youngsters (ideally with the best coaching and conditioning set up of anybody... we could call it Leinster 'A').
The only way Connacht can compete is to increase attendances. Hosting some RWC games can only help that. And having a developed stadium that is inviting to attend wouldn't hurt either.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Post by CiaranIrl »

cormac wrote:Bored at work waiting for a meeting that probably won't even happen, so thought I'd jot down a few thoughts on Ireland hosting a RWC in 2023 or 2027.

Stadiums

Clearly we need co-operation from the GAA to host this tournament. It seems that this is far more possible than I'd imagined it would be with the Central Council recommendation last weekend sending out a positive signal. Hopefully the rank-and-file GAA members feel likewise and thus we have a potential bid.

Looking at the last three World Cups the average capacity per stadium was:

2003 Australia 37.7k - 11 venues in 10 different cities/towns. Biggest was 83.5k in Sydney, 3 had capacities of 20k or less (Wollongong, Gosford and Launceston). These three stadiums hosted 6 games altogether.
2007 France 49k average capacity - 12 venues (10 in France with avg cap of 45k) - largest was Stade de France, smallest was 33.9k in Montpellier.
2011 New Zealand 29k average - 12 venues (originally 13) with largest of 60k (included temp seats) and lowest of 15k. Five stadiums of 22k or less capacity were used, smallest was 15k in Palmerston North.

I'm not sure if the IRB will award another World Cup to a country where the average capacity is in line with New Zealand. I'd imagine we'd need to match Australia's numbers and the closer we could get to the 2007 averages the better it would be for our bid.

The rugby/football stadiums that could be used are as follows (I've included total seating where I have the figure):

Lansdowne Road 51,700 (all-seater)
Thomond Park 26,500 (15,100 seated)
RDS 18,500 (16,500 seated)
Windsor Park 12,342 (all-seater)
Ravenhill 12,300 (3,000 seated)

I've not listed any stadium with a current capacity of less than 10k (such as Musgrave Pk, Sportsgrounds or Tallaght). Ravenhill is currently in development and will have a capacity of 18k when finished, presumably with a much higher proportion of seats/standing. RDS in talks to increase capacity with a new Anglesea Stand (circa 23k) with potential for further development at either end of the stadium. Not sure if anything will happen with Windsor Park, but at current size it's too small to consider. Talks around development of Musgrave Park to 18k or so.

Current GAA stadiums that would merit consideration include:

Croke Park 82,500 (69,000 seated or all-seater cap of 75,000)
Semple Stadium 55,000 (36,000 seated)
Gaelic Grounds Limerick 49,500 (35,000 seated)
Pairc Ui Chaoimh 43,500 (19,500 seated)
Fitzgerald Stadium Killarney 43,000 (9,000 seated)
McHale Park Castlebar 42,000 (all-seater) - anyone know if this has been completed?
St. Tiernach's Park Clones 36,000 (?)
Pearse Stadium Galway - 36,000 (8,000 seated)
Breffni Park Cavan 32,000 (6,000 seated)
Casement Park Belfast 32,000 (8,000 seated)
Nowlan Park Kilkenny 30,000 (19,000 seated)
Hyde Park Roscommon 30,000 (?)
Pairc Tailteann Navan 30,000 (?)

There are also stadiums in Ennis, Portlaoise, Omagh and Wexford with capacities of 25k or higher.

We would probably require 11-12 stadiums for a complete bid, so potentially five rugby grounds (LR, TP, RDS, RH and MP) plus 6/7 GAA grounds.

Stadium Upgrades

Of the five rugby stadiums, Lansdowne and Thomond will need relatively little or nothing by way of an upgrade. Ravenhill is currently undergoing an upgrade and the RDS is sourcing private funding for its own development, so only Musgrave Park would require much in the way of public funding.

Of the seven GAA stadiums, most would require an upgrade of sorts, from next-to-nothing (Croke Park) to complete redevelopment (Pairc Ui Chaoimh). It's important that there is a decent spread of stadiums across the country, to ensure that most areas benefit and that visitors are spread around the country, especially during the group stages. As such the seven GAA venues I'd select are Croke Park, Gaelic Grounds, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Fitzgerald Stadium, Pearse Stadium, McHale Park and Casement Park. (I've deliberately omitted Semple Stadium due to another issue - will discuss shortly). Taking current capacities in GAA stadiums and revised capacities of 18k (Ravenhill and Muzzer) and 23k (RDS), that gives us an average of 38.8k, roughly similar to Australia 2003.

It's fairly clear that there would need to be a major overhaul of some of the GAA stadia, particularly in Cork, Killarney, Galway and Belfast. In particular the ratio of seats/standing needs to be redressed drastically in favour of seating without having a massive impact on capacity. Obviously there would need to be discussion with UK Govt/NI Exec re development in Belfast but it would be a lesser bid without a decent sized stadium in the North and Ravenhill's capacity is too low for big matches. Clearly government funding for the redevelopment of the stadiums in the ROI would be a huge issue, even if the economy improves. This issue alone could break the back of any bid.

Timing/Clean Stadiums

Unless informed otherwise I think it's fair to say the tournament is likely to be scheduled in the same September/October window that the last two have taken place in. Certainly I can't picture the NH clubs agreeing to it being later in the season, given they'd lose players for a huge amount of time. That, of course, creates a big problem as September is a massive month for the GAA. Croke Park has, of course, staged soccer and rugby internationals within 24 hours of each other before, but RWC Ltd insist on clean stadiums for the duration of the tournament (remember NZ losing co-hosting rights in 2003?) and clearly this would be an issue for the GAA. The bid has to include Croke Park as it's the only stadium capable of holding the final (min requirement of 60k capacity for final venue), so the issue then is what do the GAA do about their finals. One option is to move all their finals to Semple Stadium (hurling fraternity would love this) - biggest issue probably capacity for football final. Another option may be to play football final on first weekend of September (essentially swap schedule with hurling for the season) in Croke Park before RWC starts with other finals then played in Thurles.

Pro12

Assuming we still have the current NH season format, there would be an issue with the playing of Pro12 games in Ireland during the RWC. RWC Ltd ensure that there are no domestic games being played during the RWC in the host country. May mean Irish sides having to play a load of away games during the tournament.

Infrastructure

This has improved considerably over the last 10-15 years but there's still much to improve. The spread of 12 stadiums in use in my plan is Dublin x3, Cork x2, Belfast x2, Limerick x2, Killarney, Galway and Castlebar. It looks a little lop-sided but the smaller grounds in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Belfast would probably be hosting no more than 10 games between them. Transport links to the likes of Killarney, Limerick and Castlebar would also need to be upgraded, particularly in terms of the rail network which is a 19th century shambles. The road network along the west coast could also use an upgrade, while total accommodation in some cities/towns would need to be looked at. Improvements to airports in Galway and Farranfore would probably be needed too.

Have to say I'm more optimistic about this happening than I was a few months back. Hope the GAA and government feel the same way.
Great summary. Thanks.
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