RWC 2023: Ireland

[Dave Cahill]

I'll have a look at that paper later on today Dave.

We can argue at great length about what will happen but the truth is we don't know yet. If you use one word (and it not be clusterfuck) to describe the situation I think it would be "uncertainty": and that word is the enemy of plans and organisation. If you were world rugby could you, in all conscience, allow Ireland's bid to succeed?

I mean if you were the IOC, no problem so long as the baksheesh/fruit and flowers was sufficient, but I don't think rugby has got the infection yet.

I'd go with omnishambles myself, but I agree about the uncertainty.

Look, I'm not saying that the CTA WILL go, personally I don't think it will (as I still think the UK won't exit), but of the options open to the UK - Stay, 'Norway', 'Switzerland' and 'Turkey, only two of them allow for the retention of the CTA and those are two the electorate specifically don't want. And that uncertainty is, as you say yourself, the problem.

Its not even uncertainty about big issues like the CTA that will kill it, its uncertainty about a thousand small issues and their effects that will be the problem. Heres an example that might seem small, but if you add it to 999 other things, it becomes big. At every game in the RWC the stadium is surrounded by booths selling gimcracks and doodads and the host cities all have popup shops selling same (a massive success in the last world cup). How do you get the stuff to Belfast, how do you get the money back from Belfast. Will they still be in the EU, the EEA, EFTA or none of the above. RIght now theres no real difference between sending something to Limerick, or sending something to Belfast, will that still be the situation in 2023? What about people working for RWC based in Belfast as a host city. Will they need working visas, different contracts? You can't plan in that kind of circumstance.

If I were a WR board member, I couldn't for the good of the sport vote for Irelands bid as things stand

[rooster]

I'll have a look at that paper later on today Dave.

We can argue at great length about what will happen but the truth is we don't know yet. If you use one word (and it not be clusterfuck) to describe the situation I think it would be "uncertainty": and that word is the enemy of plans and organisation. If you were world rugby could you, in all conscience, allow Ireland's bid to succeed?

I mean if you were the IOC, no problem so long as the baksheesh/fruit and flowers was sufficient, but I don't think rugby has got the infection yet.

I'd go with omnishambles myself, but I agree about the uncertainty.

Look, I'm not saying that the CTA WILL go, personally I don't think it will (as I still think the UK won't exit), but of the options open to the UK - Stay, 'Norway', 'Switzerland' and 'Turkey, only two of them allow for the retention of the CTA and those are two the electorate specifically don't want. And that uncertainty is, as you say yourself, the problem.

Its not even uncertainty about big issues like the CTA that will kill it, its uncertainty about a thousand small issues and their effects that will be the problem. Heres an example that might seem small, but if you add it to 999 other things, it becomes big. At every game in the RWC the stadium is surrounded by booths selling gimcracks and doodads and the host cities all have popup shops selling same (a massive success in the last world cup). How do you get the stuff to Belfast, how do you get the money back from Belfast. Will they still be in the EU, the EEA, EFTA or none of the above. RIght now theres no real difference between sending something to Limerick, or sending something to Belfast, will that still be the situation in 2023? What about people working for RWC based in Belfast as a host city. Will they need working visas, different contracts? You can't plan in that kind of circumstance.

If I were a WR board member, I couldn't for the good of the sport vote for Irelands bid as things stand

After reading that Dave I would reinstate clusterfuck as the best description

[ronk]

Japan and South Korea hosted a soccer World Cup, these sorts of potential logistical issues should be facile to anyone seriously looking at taking on a major tournament.

Anything short of an all out trade war is day to day standard fare


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[Dave Cahill]

Japan and South Korea hosted a soccer World Cup, these sorts of potential logistical issues should be facile to anyone seriously looking at taking on a major tournament.

Anything short of an all out trade war is day to day standard fare


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The Japorea team knew with reasonable certainty that the economic and travel environment that existed on the day the bid was kicked off would be the same one that would be in place the day the tournament kicked off. The IRFU and thus World Rugby has no such certainty - thats the problem. As you say, logistical planning should be easy enough, but we don't know what to plan for!

Its very frustrating, I think that without this issue Ireland would win the bid. We have the stadia, the travel framework, the hotel beds. We can offer everything to the rugby fan from a weekender to a longer stay, urban and rural. This is our best chance and its being seriously endangered by these small minded little englander bigots.

[TerenureJim]

Lads there's a lot of nonsense about a border here, what'll actually happen is a border control between the island of Britain and our island. London will frame it as helping the peace process but in reality it's an easy way to begin to cut the north off from the "mainland". If you think I'm mad think how much cheaper it is to watch one or two ferry ports rather than a lengthy land border.

It's likely the north will become some odd principality that's not quite Ireland but not quite the uk either.

Something will get fudged to allow no border and continued support for farmers and no new huge bill for London which at the end of the day is what it's about. London in real terms will see money to be saved by slowly cutting the north off.

I know it sounds mad but I bet there'll be a fudge that is essentially something along those lines.

[Dave Cahill]

That is something that has been suggested by a number of commentators in England. The problem is

Anything that weakens or is perceived to weaken the relationship between Northern Ireland and Great Britain will be opposed utterly by a significant proportion of the population of Northern Ireland
Anything that strengthens or is perceived to strengthen the relationship between Northern Ireland and Ireland will be opposed utterly by a significant proportion of the population of Northern Ireland

The Conservative and Unionist Party, to give them their full name, dominated by the right as they are now, are not going to do either

Remember, the majority in Northern Ireland don't want Brexit, yet the majority party in Northern Ireland is gung-ho for Brexit, and whereas the SNP are doing everything they can to undermine Brexit and the legislative framework for Brexit, the DUP are the complete opposite.

[Peg Leg]

Rep. Of Ireland to be the human trafficking capital of Europe? Yeehah!

[Peg Leg]

How do we Europeans manage our borders to the east?

[Dave Cahill]

Rep. Of Ireland to be the human trafficking capital of Europe? Yeehah!

There is a school of (not very serious) thought that suggests that the border could be used to shuffle illegal immigrants and refugees out of the EU!

[neiliog93]

They aren't the Conservative and Unionist Party any more. Realistically the logistical problems of two currencies and jurisdiction on the same tiny island are a lot less than the logistical difficulties of getting between Japan and South Korea - plane flights, different currencies, and even different languages. It won't be a problem and I think it's sensationalism to suggest it will be.

[Peg Leg]

Rep. Of Ireland to be the human trafficking capital of Europe? Yeehah!

There is a school of (not very serious) thought that suggests that the border could be used to shuffle illegal immigrants and refugees out of the EU!

UK's only border makes sense.

[Dave Cahill]

They aren't the Conservative and Unionist Party any more.

Yes they are, and are registered as such in both Northern Ireland and Great Britain

http://search.electoralcommission.org.u ... tions/PP52 is their GB record

Realistically the logistical problems of two currencies and jurisdiction on the same tiny island are a lot less than the logistical difficulties of getting between Japan and South Korea - plane flights, different currencies, and even different languages. It won't be a problem and I think it's sensationalism to suggest it will be.

Again, the problem is that we don't know what the logistical difficulties are or might be, we have no idea, and lack of information is where business says bye-bye.

[Dave Cahill]

I see the Indo has decided to rip us off by doing a piece on 100 days of Brexit - we shape the news agenda boys!

[TerenureJim]

That is something that has been suggested by a number of commentators in England. The problem is

Anything that weakens or is perceived to weaken the relationship between Northern Ireland and Great Britain will be opposed utterly by a significant proportion of the population of Northern Ireland
Anything that strengthens or is perceived to strengthen the relationship between Northern Ireland and Ireland will be opposed utterly by a significant proportion of the population of Northern Ireland

The Conservative and Unionist Party, to give them their full name, dominated by the right as they are now, are not going to do either

Remember, the majority in Northern Ireland don't want Brexit, yet the majority party in Northern Ireland is gung-ho for Brexit, and whereas the SNP are doing everything they can to undermine Brexit and the legislative framework for Brexit, the DUP are the complete opposite.

A significant element of NI might not like London doing it to them but then again the majority up north don't want to lave the EU and London is doing that to them. Do you honestly believe Tories care about NI? In reality I'd say some of the more ardent Brexiters, the ones now running the asalyum, don't know the difference between a Kerryman and a Lagansider and look down their noses at both and would be happily rid of NI at which point what exactly are unionists going to do? They'll be the dumpee in an unrequited relationship.

[Ruckedtobits]

Like most problems of Empire, it was long ago realised that HM Treasury has the capacity to solve most Imperial questions. And so it will be for the North. Guaranteed multi-annual funding to say 2025 of c. £20Bn per annum, or take your chances with whatever can be negotiated with EU during our Brexit discussions.

DUP and SF know the true extent of London support and would agree privately on something along these lines, if underwritten by EU or US.

[rooster]

It's not the UK and Ireland who will decide what happens with the border here but the rest of the EU
Can't see anything but a totally out Brexit as a Norwegian style one is just stupid .
Big one here is how they police the system, it will cost more than the existing EU budget to do it properly

[rooster]

Seems like clusterfuck commences in March.

[Oldschool]

The EU want us to either f%~k off or do what we're told.
That was their attitude to GB.
The border presents a big stick for the EU to beat us with.
For once we really do need an Irish solution to an Irish problem.
As an aside if DB goes belly up be prepared for trouble.
Cash under the matress is never a bad thing.
We have all been bailed in to the next bank crash and there's one not too far away.
What exposure have our banks and pensions funds to DB and any follow on fallout?

[nc6000]

Its very frustrating, I think that without this issue Ireland would win the bid. We have the stadia, the travel framework, the hotel beds. We can offer everything to the rugby fan from a weekender to a longer stay, urban and rural. This is our best chance and its being seriously endangered by these small minded little englander bigots.

Not sure I agree with this.

Say for example if two games were on in Thurles on the same weekend. How would 80,000 odd fans get to and from Thurles? Where would they stay? Then factor in that the same could be happening in Cork, Limerick and Dublin at the same time and I find it hard to see we have the capacity here to host it.

[Dave Cahill]

Its very frustrating, I think that without this issue Ireland would win the bid. We have the stadia, the travel framework, the hotel beds. We can offer everything to the rugby fan from a weekender to a longer stay, urban and rural. This is our best chance and its being seriously endangered by these small minded little englander bigots.

Not sure I agree with this.

Say for example if two games were on in Thurles on the same weekend. How would 80,000 odd fans get to and from Thurles? Where would they stay? Then factor in that the same could be happening in Cork, Limerick and Dublin at the same time and I find it hard to see we have the capacity here to host it.

The same way as the fifty odd thousand fans get to and from Thurles every Munster final thats played there, only twice. Tipperary, for example, has only marginally fewer hotel beds than Cardiff. And as anyone who has attended a game in Cardiff will know, theres nothing compelling you to stay in the same place the game is on - Swansea, Llanelli, Newport for example are all places that Irish fans stay in regularly when their team is playing in Cardiff. Kilkenny, LImerick and Portlaoise are all in and around an hour away for example. I've actually never spent a night in Cardiff despite being at a number of games in the CCS, AP and the PS.

But thats part of the planning, you simply load balance the fixtures to make sure than the infrastructure can cope.