RWC 2023: Ireland

[suisse]

Bored at work

Be bored more often cormac. Excellent posting.

I think this bid would be very successful with the IRB. After all, they just want their money for hosting. I think the biggest problem is not South Africa also bidding (although, you can be sure they'll vote for someone else if the stories about 2011 are true) but also posturing from Scotland and Wales about a joint bid.

Go alone or don't go ahead

[TerenureJim]

Anyone think that a RWC 2023 Bond would be a viable opportunity for the Government to seek to put up funding for the hosting/whatever stadium development is needed. I'm sure a lot of use out there have at one stage or another bought prize bonds, national bonds etc. down the post office.

I'd guess that if a bid were successful and people were offered the chance to invest in a surity with the Government which would payout in 10-20 years at a decent rate you'd get a lot of takers. I'm sure the NTMA would be able to get something like this together pretty quickly and it'd be a direct way of getting everyone on board with working to host the tournament.

[olaf the fat]

Bidding against the Saffers, the likelyhood of us filling more stadiums(even for minnow games) at a higher ticket price must carry a fair bit of weight.

We must be in the catchment area of the biggest spectator base

[TerenureJim]

Interesting to read that the 35k Americans over for Notre Dame V Navy are estimated to be adding €100 million in spending to the economy...... that's only one game in one spot

[Peg Leg]

Interesting to read that the 35k Americans over for Notre Dame V Navy are estimated to be adding €100 million in spending to the economy...... that's only one game in one spot

They got that figure form a magic calculator.... the Tallships event managed to generate 40-50million over the whole weekend!

[tones]

Interesting to read that the 35k Americans over for Notre Dame V Navy are estimated to be adding €100 million in spending to the economy...... that's only one game in one spot

They got that figure form a magic calculator.... the Tallships event managed to generate 40-50million over the whole weekend!

Actually the figure was 36million. I know from a friend working on a coffee stand that they were raking it in all weekend.

[domhnallj]

Interesting to read that the 35k Americans over for Notre Dame V Navy are estimated to be adding €100 million in spending to the economy...... that's only one game in one spot

They got that figure form a magic calculator.... the Tallships event managed to generate 40-50million over the whole weekend!

Depends on who was there was the Tallships. If it was mostly locals then they would make less impact since they wouldn't be using hotels and eating out as much. Besides, everyone knows that the yanks are loaded!!

[TheBear]

Interesting to read that the 35k Americans over for Notre Dame V Navy are estimated to be adding €100 million in spending to the economy...... that's only one game in one spot

They got that figure form a magic calculator.... the Tallships event managed to generate 40-50million over the whole weekend!

Depends on who was there was the Tallships. If it was mostly locals then they would make less impact since they wouldn't be using hotels and eating out as much. Besides, everyone knows that the yanks are loaded!!

Also, it's more of a once-in-a-lifetime trip for the Americans coming here, as opposed to someone from Lucan coming into town for the Tall Ships, or even a Leinster fan going to Twickers for the H Cup final last May. Many of us have been to London before, and will be back again, so there's less call to do and see everything. However, there will be a fair few of this weeks visitors who will never be in Ireland again. As a result, the Americans are less likely to scrimp, and will want to experience everything to the full. This will push up average spend considerably. They're also more likely to travel around the country while they're here, so the benefit is spread out, rather than being exclusively felt in a small area of the country.

[Boca J]

If the World Cup was to go ahead in Ireland in 2023 there are probably 2 scenarios on how the Rugby World Cup might look. The first Rugby World Cup would be an All-Ireland World Cup where all games are played in Ireland. The second scenario would be to use 10 stadiums in Ireland with the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff and Murrayfield in Edinburgh. I think the second scenario will probably be used by the IRFU as them have only named 6 GAA stadiums that they would like to use and I can only think of 4 possible rugby stadiums that could be used. The four rugby stadiums would probably be Aviva Stadium, Thomond Park, Ravenhill Stadium and RDS Arena. The 6 GAA Stadiums named are Croke Park Dublin, Pairc Ui Chaoimh Cork, Casement Park Belfast, Gaelic Grounds Limerick, Fitzgerald Stadium Killarney and Pearse Stadium Galway. The other 2 stadiums I picked to make up the numbers to 12 stadiums are McHale Park in Castlebar and Nowlan Park in Kilkenny. But these 2 stadiums could be replaced by any other 2 suitable stadiums as long as the capacity is greater than 15,000 (minimum capacity used in New Zealand).
The second scenario would have all the same stadiums except Millennium stadium and Murrayfield would be used instead of McHale Park and Nowlan Park. The same format would probably be used as the World Cup in France in 2007 where Murrayfield got 2 pool games and Millennium Stadium got 3 pool games and a quarterfinal.

The following 12 stadiums could be used for the tournament:

Croke Park (82,300) - 7 games
Aviva Stadium (51,700) - 7 games
Pairc Ui Chaoimh (45,000) - 5 games
Casement Park (40,000) – 5 games
Thomond Park (26,500) - 4 games
Fitzgerald Stadium (43,000) - 4 games
Pearse Stadium (36,000) - 4 games
Gaelic Ground (49,500) – 3 games
Ravenhill Stadium (18,000) - 3 games
RDS Arena (18,500) - 2 games
McHale Park (42,000) - 2 games
Nowlan Park (30,000) – 2 games

I have given Croke Park and Aviva Stadium only 7 games each. This was done to spread the pool matches around the country and gives the pitches a chance to recover for the semi finals and finals. I also gave Thomond Park 4 games and Gaelic Grounds 3 games. I think 7 games is enough games for Limerick to cope with and since Thomond Park is the home of Munster rugby I gave it the extra game. I may be lower capacity but Thomond Park is a globally famous rugby playing sports field and deserves it on that basis.

To allow for the GAA All-Ireland football final to be played on the 3rd Sunday in September the opening ceremony of the Rugby World Cup would be held as normal the Friday. It only takes Croke Park 24 hours to convert the rugby pitch back to a Gaelic football pitch, allowing for the All-Ireland football final to take place that Sunday. There would be no rugby games played in Dublin that Sunday to overcrowding in the capital.

If we use the same groups as the 2011 World Cup and start the tournament on Friday the 15th September 2023 this is how the tournament might look:

Pool A:
Australia
Ireland
Italy
USA
Russia

Sep 15 Ireland v USA......................Croke Park
Sep 16 Australia v Italy...................Pearse Stadium
Sep 20 Russia v USA.......................McHale Park
Sep 22 Australia v Ireland...............Croke Park
Sep 24 Italy v Russia......................RDS Arena
Sep 27 Australia v USA...................Fitzgerald Stadium
Sep 30 Ireland v Russia..................Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Oct 3 Italy v USA...........................Gaelic Grounds
Oct 7 Australia v Russia..................Ravenhill Stadium
Oct 8 Ireland v Italy.......................Aviva Stadium

Pool B:
England
Argentina
Scotland
Georgia
Romania

Sep 16 Scotland v Romania...............Thomond Park
Sep 16 England v Argentina...............Aviva Stadium
Sep 20 Scotland v Georgia.................Gaelic Grounds
Sep 23 Argentina v Romania...............Fitzgerald Stadium
Sep 24 England v Georgia..................Casement Park
Sep 30 England v Romania.................Thomond Park
Oct 1 Argentina v Scotland..................Aviva Stadium
Oct 4 Georgia v Romania....................McHale Park
Oct 7 England v Scotland....................Croke Park
Oct 8 Argentina v Georgia...................Pearse Stadium

Pool C:
New Zealand
France
Tonga
Canada
Japan

Sep 17 New Zealand v Tonga...............Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Sep 17 France v Japan.........................Casement Park
Sep 21 Tonga v Canada.......................Nowlan Park
Sep 23 New Zealand v Japan................Casement Park
Sep 26 France v Canada......................Pearse Stadium
Sep 29 Tonga v Japan.........................Ravenhill Stadium
Oct 1 New Zealand v France................Croke Park
Oct 3 Canada v Japan..........................Nowlan Park
Oct 7 France v Tonga..........................Thomond Park
Oct 8 New Zealand v Canada...............Pairc Ui Chaoimh

Pool D:
South Africa
Wales
Samoa
Fiji
Namibia

Sep 16 Fiji v Namibia..........................Fitzgerald Stadium
Sep 17 South Africa v Wales...............Aviva Stadium
Sep 20 Samoa v Namibia....................RDS Arena
Sep 23 South Africa v Fiji....................Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Sep 24 Wales v Samoa.......................Thomond Park
Sep 28 South Africa v Namibia............Gaelic Grounds
Oct 1 Fiji v Samoa..............................Ravenhill Stadium
Oct 2 Wales v Namibia.......................Pearse Stadium
Oct 6 South Africa v Samoa................Fitzgerald Stadium
Oct 8 Wales v Fiji..............................Casement Park

Quarter Finals:
Oct 14 New Zealand v Argentina…………Pairc Ui Chaiomh
Oct 14 England v France......................Aviva Stadium
Oct 15 Australia v South Africa.............Casement Park
Oct 15 Ireland v Wales........................Croke Park

Semi Finals:
Oct 21 Ireland v France…………………….Croke Park
Oct 22 New Zealand v Australia............Aviva Stadium

3rd/4th Place Play-off:
Oct 27 France v Australia.....................Aviva Stadium

Rugby World Cup Final:
Oct 29 Ireland v New Zealand……………Croke Park

[suisse]

Oct 15 Australia v South Africa.............Casement Park
Oct 15 Ireland v Wales........................Croke Park

Semi Finals:
Oct 21 Ireland v France…………………….Croke Park
Oct 22 New Zealand v Australia............Aviva Stadium

Very good first post.

However, this part I disagree with. We were never expected to beat Australia so I doubt they would have scheduled the runner's up game from our group being in Belfast. Dublin would have hosted the two qualifiers with Cork and somewhere else getting the other two. Both semis should be in the biggest stadium - CP - to maximise revenue and (just in case) Ireland get there.

I'd play the 3rd/4th outside the capital.

[munster#1]

I think we will see musgrave park brought up to it's planned 22k and given that TP can hold 27k with a few added seats in it's current form, it would take only a small developement to get it to 30k+. Given that CP cost €1m per game, then surely some of the smaller stadia will come in around €200k per game. I would rather see that rent money put into our own stadia, than the gaa's

[TerenureJim]

I think we will see musgrave park brought up to it's planned 22k and given that TP can hold 27k with a few added seats in it's current form, it would take only a small developement to get it to 30k+. Given that CP cost €1m per game, then surely some of the smaller stadia will come in around €200k per game. I would rather see that rent money put into our own stadia, than the gaa's

I would rather see the money put into our stadia and the GAA rather than going anywhere near Wales or Scotland.

[munster#1]

I agree TJ, afaik it is looking like a solo run by the irfu, and bar looking for the backing of those 2 nations, i don't see a reason why we would need them. We have enough stadia capable of holding it ourselves. This would be a massive boost to jobs, so i'd imagine the government will be helping with costs. It would be great to see leinster get a stadium out of this.

[Broken Wing]

This may have been mentioned already but when England host the 2015 RWC Wales will be playing in Wales. I'm sure they'd be looking for similar to support our bid.

[TerenureJim]

This may have been mentioned already but when England host the 2015 RWC Wales will be playing in Wales. I'm sure they'd be looking for similar to support our bid.

Wales can go and f%~k themselves as far as I'm concerned if they start that nonsense with us.

[Boca J]

Oct 15 Australia v South Africa.............Casement Park
Oct 15 Ireland v Wales........................Croke Park

Semi Finals:
Oct 21 Ireland v France…………………….Croke Park
Oct 22 New Zealand v Australia............Aviva Stadium

Very good first post.

However, this part I disagree with. We were never expected to beat Australia so I doubt they would have scheduled the runner's up game from our group being in Belfast. Dublin would have hosted the two qualifiers with Cork and somewhere else getting the other two. Both semis should be in the biggest stadium - CP - to maximise revenue and (just in case) Ireland get there.

I'd play the 3rd/4th outside the capital.

Thats a far call about the quarter finals. If Ireland come 1st or 2nd in their group the quarter final should be set up that the their match should be in Croke Park or Aviva Stadium. The quarter finals should read:

Oct 14 New Zealand v Argentina.............Casement Park
Oct 14 Australia v South Africa..............Aviva Stadium
Oct 15 England v France......................Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Oct 15 Ireland v Wales........................Croke Park

Dont have a problem with the 2 semi finals been in Croke Park. If the pitch is up to it in October it shouldn't be a problem.

[Ultra Vires]

This may have been mentioned already but when England host the 2015 RWC Wales will be playing in Wales. I'm sure they'd be looking for similar to support our bid.

Wales can go and f%~k themselves as far as I'm concerned if they start that nonsense with us.

If this project is ever to become a reality I can guarantee you that we will need Wales' vote at the IRB to make it happen.

People say we can go it alone but Wales and Scotland won't just sit back and allow it, nor England I'd say, without there being something in it for them. Could easily imagine a scenario where Scotland get to play matches at Murrayfield and Wales at the Millenium in order for us to get their votes. There's massive politics involved in the awarding of every WC and there is no way the other IRB countries will just say yeah here you go Ireland, you can reap the financial windfall for your economy from the tourism and take the advantage to your team of playing a tournament at home... they'll want something in return. For starters Italy has the potential to be a much bigger growth market for rugby, and it has dozens of truly world class stadia spread around a beautiful warm country in the heart of Europe. They've a far better chance of being awarded the tournament i'd say. Why would the Italians vote for us?

[locho]

This may have been mentioned already but when England host the 2015 RWC Wales will be playing in Wales. I'm sure they'd be looking for similar to support our bid.

Wales can go and f%~k themselves as far as I'm concerned if they start that nonsense with us.

If this project is ever to become a reality I can guarantee you that we will need Wales' vote at the IRB to make it happen.

People say we can go it alone but Wales and Scotland won't just sit back and allow it, nor England I'd say, without there being something in it for them. Could easily imagine a scenario where Scotland get to play matches at Murrayfield and Wales at the Millenium in order for us to get their votes. There's massive politics involved in the awarding of every WC and there is no way the other IRB countries will just say yeah here you go Ireland, you can reap the financial windfall for your economy from the tourism and take the advantage to your team of playing a tournament at home... they'll want something in return. For starters Italy has the potential to be a much bigger growth market for rugby, and it has dozens of truly world class stadia spread around a beautiful warm country in the heart of Europe. They've a far better chance of being awarded the tournament i'd say. Why would the Italians vote for us?

Hmmm i'm not saying that we should tell them to f**k off as posted earlier, but equally i would like us to at least submit the initial bid on the basis of hosting on our own. Given that we've never hosted before, haven't held a WC game here since '99 and also probably been a key vote in at least 2-3 other awardings surely there are a couple of countries that do owe us a favour. I'm not saying its Wales/Scotland/Italy will do us any favours but it'd be a bit rich for England to turn around and look for a game or refuse to vote for us, after having hosted it in 2015 and us not looking for a game off them, and i'm sure we gave them our vote.

It would be interesting to know how this works, as in how many delegate votes are involved and what is the spread among countries. Can we win it with just support from say France/England/Australia/NZ?

[Fireworks]

Has the bid vanished or is anyone aware of behind the scenes work being done. I would hate to think it was being left till the last minute like most things here. To win a solo bid will take a lot of work which needs to have already started. The country and the IRFU can afford this if we start now and budget all works to be done over the next 10 years.

[Ruckedtobits]

Rumour at Ulster game was that the IRFU appointed a consultancy company to work up a feasibility study. Also some research / lobbying is / has been conducted by Gov Depts here and overseas. The wheels are turning slowly and quietly - apparently.