RWC 2023: Ireland

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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » January 24th, 2012, 2:18 am

Shame the QF breakdown didn;t get us three home quarters, would have been a nice little showcase weekend for the entire country to see big games here in Dublin, down in Limerick and up in Belfast to show that it'd be a serious moneyspinner for all concerned.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby RavenhillRaider » February 19th, 2012, 8:49 pm

From the independent, looks like the gov and irfu are looking at the possibility for RWC2023.
Varadkar keen to explore World Cup bid
By JOHN DRENNAN
Sunday February 19 2012
The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport Leo Varadkar will meet shortly with the IRFU to see if Ireland will launch a bid to host the Rugby World Cup.

It is believed that the IRFU is currently engaged in "detailed research into the possibility of Ireland hosting the 2023 World Cup".

However, Varadkar's very public declaration of support for the project is likely to give significant impetus to the Union's ambitions. Government support would be vital to any bid given that Japan have had to guarantee the 2019 RWC to the tune of €115m and that is likely to increase by about 10 per cent for the 2023 staging.

Speaking to the Sunday Independent, one senior source said: "The Minister wants to see it happen but would need first to see if it is feasible. This has been canvassed, something concrete is happening," and the view from the top is that "if it is feasible it would be fantastic."

IRFU chief executive Philip Browne confirmed that the ambitious project was being considered. "It's something that we've looked at in the past and coming back from New Zealand and seeing what they were able to do there, we said let's have a look at it again. So that's all we're doing: having a think about it. It's a question ultimately of whether the Government wants to get involved in it or not. If they don't want to get involved in it then it doesn't happen."

The 2023 event is the next available slot for hosting the World Cup and it is believed the IRFU have 12 months to formalise a bid. Though top-level political support would be invaluable, a source close to the Minister said "any initiative would have to be led by the IRFU."

Significantly, Mr Varadkar's relations with the IRFU are far warmer than those that existed during his predecessor Eamon Ryan's tenure. Though the Minister has made light of his sporting credentials in public, he is "a closet Leinster fan" who admits to having played "very bad rugby as a child but kept an interest."

As a politician, Varadkar is believed to be more interested in "the huge tourist and macro-economic boost and the positive effect on national morale hosting such a tremendous sporting event would have."

Responding to concerns that such a bid would suffer the same fate as Gay Mitchell's famous suggestion that the Olympics should be brought to Dublin, a spokesperson for the Department noted the objective facts were completely different. "Unlike the 1980s we already have the stadiums and infrastructure for such a competition," said the spokesperson, adding that the success of the recent New Zealand World Cup "proved small countries can hold such an event."

They noted that when it comes to grounds we "already have the Aviva and the RDS, Croke Park has been used for rugby in the past, Ravenhill is currently being refurbished and we also have other historic grounds such as Thomond Park."

Top-level sources also noted "the tournament could be held on an All-Ireland basis whilst the other Celtic Nations, Wales and Scotland, or England for that matter, could be involved."

A World Cup can attract tens of thousands of visiting fans, 2,500 international media, and up to 2,500 corporate and VIP guests throughout the tournament. It is believed the RWC in 2007 brought in 400,000 additional visitors to France delivering a total economic impact of €4bn.

- JOHN DRENNAN

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-varadkar-keen-to-explore-world-cup-bid-3024340.html
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » February 20th, 2012, 2:43 pm

Piece in the IT on RWC 2023 as well today, small coverage in "All In the Scrum" section. God I really hope this comes through, it'd be a seriously fantastic event and would give all team field sports in the country a fantastic legacy whch would probably sustain them facility wise for most of the next century.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Ultra Vires » February 20th, 2012, 7:31 pm

This just won't happen.

1. We don't have anywhere near the number of proper stadia required.
2. The talk of using GAA grounds is farcical. They would all (bar Croke Park) need to be redeveloped. What passes for a good GAA ground down the country in Ireland is not the standard required when hosting a World Cup.
3. The GAA would not want to allow their grounds to be used to showcase the biggest rugby tournament on earth. Renting Croke Park to the IRFU for 12 million euros for 4 years is one thing, but the thoughts of having the entire country taken over by a competing sport (of which they are very insecure) is quite another.
4. If they somehow agreed to it, the GAA would want so much money as to make it unpalatable.
5. An essential part of these tournaments now is that the host country's government has to guarantee the costs so that if the hosts make a balls of it the IRB still reaps the financial benefits. Ireland Incorporated could not guarantee a ham sandwich at the moment. We owe hundreds of billions of euro to the IMF and they are not in the business of hosting sporting extravaganzas. How could we possibly go to our paymasters seeking an interest rate reduction because we can't afford our repayments and then ask them to sign off on a World Cup. It's the equivalent of a homeowner in 50% negative equity going to the bank and asking for a million euros to buy a nice new house down the road.
6. The World Cup is 11 years away. There will probably be 3 or 4 different governments in Ireland between now and then. The current Minister for Sport will be long gone.

I've said it before but if we want to be realistic about hosting it we need to get together with Scotland and Wales and put in a joint bid. We have the capability to provide the Aviva, Thomond and the soon to be redeveloped Ravenhill. Thats 3 decent stadia spread around the island. Nice and manageable and with much reduced overheads. Plus if it turns out to be a loss making enterprise, then we're splitting it with 2 other host unions. We could ensure we get a third of the pool games, one or two quarter finals and a semi-final. The country would still get a huge financial boost and feel good factor. Lets not bite off more than we can chew by attempting to go it alone.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby tones » February 20th, 2012, 9:36 pm

Ultra Vires wrote:This just won't happen.

1. We don't have anywhere near the number of proper stadia required.
2. The talk of using GAA grounds is farcical. They would all (bar Croke Park) need to be redeveloped. What passes for a good GAA ground down the country in Ireland is not the standard required when hosting a World Cup.
3. The GAA would not want to allow their grounds to be used to showcase the biggest rugby tournament on earth. Renting Croke Park to the IRFU for 12 million euros for 4 years is one thing, but the thoughts of having the entire country taken over by a competing sport (of which they are very insecure) is quite another.
4. If they somehow agreed to it, the GAA would want so much money as to make it unpalatable.
5. An essential part of these tournaments now is that the host country's government has to guarantee the costs so that if the hosts make a balls of it the IRB still reaps the financial benefits. Ireland Incorporated could not guarantee a ham sandwich at the moment. We owe hundreds of billions of euro to the IMF and they are not in the business of hosting sporting extravaganzas. How could we possibly go to our paymasters seeking an interest rate reduction because we can't afford our repayments and then ask them to sign off on a World Cup. It's the equivalent of a homeowner in 50% negative equity going to the bank and asking for a million euros to buy a nice new house down the road.
6. The World Cup is 11 years away. There will probably be 3 or 4 different governments in Ireland between now and then. The current Minister for Sport will be long gone.

I've said it before but if we want to be realistic about hosting it we need to get together with Scotland and Wales and put in a joint bid. We have the capability to provide the Aviva, Thomond and the soon to be redeveloped Ravenhill. Thats 3 decent stadia spread around the island. Nice and manageable and with much reduced overheads. Plus if it turns out to be a loss making enterprise, then we're splitting it with 2 other host unions. We could ensure we get a third of the pool games, one or two quarter finals and a semi-final. The country would still get a huge financial boost and feel good factor. Lets not bite off more than we can chew by attempting to go it alone.



Did you notice the standard of stadia in NZ at the most recent world cup???? In fact some ofthe stadia in Oz weren't better than Ravenhill as it currently stands eg Townsville (consider as well transport to this ground) and there was the ground we played Romania in..
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby suisse » February 21st, 2012, 1:16 am

Ultra Vires wrote:This just won't happen.

1. We don't have anywhere near the number of proper stadia required.
2. The talk of using GAA grounds is farcical. They would all (bar Croke Park) need to be redeveloped. What passes for a good GAA ground down the country in Ireland is not the standard required when hosting a World Cup.
3. The GAA would not want to allow their grounds to be used to showcase the biggest rugby tournament on earth. Renting Croke Park to the IRFU for 12 million euros for 4 years is one thing, but the thoughts of having the entire country taken over by a competing sport (of which they are very insecure) is quite another.
4. If they somehow agreed to it, the GAA would want so much money as to make it unpalatable.
5. An essential part of these tournaments now is that the host country's government has to guarantee the costs so that if the hosts make a balls of it the IRB still reaps the financial benefits. Ireland Incorporated could not guarantee a ham sandwich at the moment. We owe hundreds of billions of euro to the IMF and they are not in the business of hosting sporting extravaganzas. How could we possibly go to our paymasters seeking an interest rate reduction because we can't afford our repayments and then ask them to sign off on a World Cup. It's the equivalent of a homeowner in 50% negative equity going to the bank and asking for a million euros to buy a nice new house down the road.
6. The World Cup is 11 years away. There will probably be 3 or 4 different governments in Ireland between now and then. The current Minister for Sport will be long gone.

I've said it before but if we want to be realistic about hosting it we need to get together with Scotland and Wales and put in a joint bid. We have the capability to provide the Aviva, Thomond and the soon to be redeveloped Ravenhill. Thats 3 decent stadia spread around the island. Nice and manageable and with much reduced overheads. Plus if it turns out to be a loss making enterprise, then we're splitting it with 2 other host unions. We could ensure we get a third of the pool games, one or two quarter finals and a semi-final. The country would still get a huge financial boost and feel good factor. Lets not bite off more than we can chew by attempting to go it alone.


Agree with tones. Some of the 2011 RWC stadia were shoddy, but apparently drew the best atmospheres. If the RDS and Ravenhill are getting upgrades anyway, then we don't need to plough more RWC into them. Minor, minor repairs needed for the GAA grounds. I'm not sure if they are electronically geared up for ticket checking - the country grounds - but they'll need to be.

If the GAA aren't onside and with favourable rent rates, then it's a non runner. No point going join bid. IMO, either we do it alone, or not at all.

Wrote this on p.ie

Dublin - Croke Park (84,000), Aviva Stadium (50,000) and RDS (revamped to 25-30,000)
Cork - Pairc Ui Chaoimh (43,000 but with minor repairs might get a sweet 50k number)
Limerick - Gaelic Grounds (50,000) and Thomand Park (26,000 now, could be increased if necessary)
Galway - Pearse Stadium (34,000 current)
Belfast - Casement Park and Ravenhill (20k when redevelopment is complete - lots of room to go higher if necessary)

That's 9 so far. It would be great to have some in the Midland areas like Semple Stadium (55,000) and Breffni Park, Cavan (35,000) or O'Moore, Laois (27,000). Maybe one in Derry or another stadium in Connacht, like McHale in Mayo.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby olaf the fat » February 21st, 2012, 1:36 pm

The GAA competes with Rugby at Rabo and Hcup levels not with the RWC. GAA showpeice is in the summertime, rugby throughout the winter, this will be summertime but its a once off with major spin off for the economy.

The GAA might not want mad rents, they will be delighted get some county grounds upgraded for free!

This will be show case for the Island, jeez they spend money lighting monuments around the world green on Paddys day - this is ideal for promoting the Island in 11years time!
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Ultra Vires » February 21st, 2012, 2:55 pm

suisse wrote:
Ultra Vires wrote:This just won't happen.

1. We don't have anywhere near the number of proper stadia required.
2. The talk of using GAA grounds is farcical. They would all (bar Croke Park) need to be redeveloped. What passes for a good GAA ground down the country in Ireland is not the standard required when hosting a World Cup.
3. The GAA would not want to allow their grounds to be used to showcase the biggest rugby tournament on earth. Renting Croke Park to the IRFU for 12 million euros for 4 years is one thing, but the thoughts of having the entire country taken over by a competing sport (of which they are very insecure) is quite another.
4. If they somehow agreed to it, the GAA would want so much money as to make it unpalatable.
5. An essential part of these tournaments now is that the host country's government has to guarantee the costs so that if the hosts make a balls of it the IRB still reaps the financial benefits. Ireland Incorporated could not guarantee a ham sandwich at the moment. We owe hundreds of billions of euro to the IMF and they are not in the business of hosting sporting extravaganzas. How could we possibly go to our paymasters seeking an interest rate reduction because we can't afford our repayments and then ask them to sign off on a World Cup. It's the equivalent of a homeowner in 50% negative equity going to the bank and asking for a million euros to buy a nice new house down the road.
6. The World Cup is 11 years away. There will probably be 3 or 4 different governments in Ireland between now and then. The current Minister for Sport will be long gone.

I've said it before but if we want to be realistic about hosting it we need to get together with Scotland and Wales and put in a joint bid. We have the capability to provide the Aviva, Thomond and the soon to be redeveloped Ravenhill. Thats 3 decent stadia spread around the island. Nice and manageable and with much reduced overheads. Plus if it turns out to be a loss making enterprise, then we're splitting it with 2 other host unions. We could ensure we get a third of the pool games, one or two quarter finals and a semi-final. The country would still get a huge financial boost and feel good factor. Lets not bite off more than we can chew by attempting to go it alone.


Agree with tones. Some of the 2011 RWC stadia were shoddy, but apparently drew the best atmospheres. If the RDS and Ravenhill are getting upgrades anyway, then we don't need to plough more RWC into them. Minor, minor repairs needed for the GAA grounds. I'm not sure if they are electronically geared up for ticket checking - the country grounds - but they'll need to be.

If the GAA aren't onside and with favourable rent rates, then it's a non runner. No point going join bid. IMO, either we do it alone, or not at all.

Wrote this on p.ie

Dublin - Croke Park (84,000), Aviva Stadium (50,000) and RDS (revamped to 25-30,000)
Cork - Pairc Ui Chaoimh (43,000 but with minor repairs might get a sweet 50k number)
Limerick - Gaelic Grounds (50,000) and Thomand Park (26,000 now, could be increased if necessary)
Galway - Pearse Stadium (34,000 current)
Belfast - Casement Park and Ravenhill (20k when redevelopment is complete - lots of room to go higher if necessary)

That's 9 so far. It would be great to have some in the Midland areas like Semple Stadium (55,000) and Breffni Park, Cavan (35,000) or O'Moore, Laois (27,000). Maybe one in Derry or another stadium in Connacht, like McHale in Mayo.


3 of those stadia are in the same city (Dublin).
2 more are in the same city (Limerick).
2 others are in the same city (Belfast).

Thats not a good geographical spread.

The best way to ensure overheads are kept down and to ensure the organisation is as straightforward and uncomplicated as possible is to keep the GAA out of it. They would drag their heels on everything, insist on high rents, then change their minds at the last minute. They are an amateur organisation that happen to own a load of pitches. You can't even ban a violent GAA player without going through 4 committees. Red tape everywhere. It would actually be far less hassle to negotiate and work with the Scottish and Welsh rugby unions. Each country would be responsible for providing say 3 or 4 stadia. Divvy up the group and knock-out matches. One third of the organisation, one third of the cost, pooling of 3 brains trusts who will all be singing from the same hymn sheet. Madness to get the GAA involved. They'd complicate everything - from which ball boys could be used to what tayto crisp flavours would be on sale to which county wouldn't want England playing at their ground. Why would they give favourable rents anyway? They'd want to bleed as much money as possible from the whole thing, and if it doesn't go ahead due to high costs, sure they wouldn't care anyway.

And people can slag off the NZ and Australian stadia but the infrastructure in those countries is excellent. They're well run professional countries inhabited by people with a can do attitude. Those characteristics are in short supply in Ireland. Keep the old fashioned, backward looking, amateurish GAA as far away from this as possible.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Broken Wing » February 21st, 2012, 3:33 pm

Ultra Vires wrote:And people can slag off the NZ and Australian stadia but the infrastructure in those countries is excellent.

Are you taking the mick? Have you driven or taken a train around the South Island of New Zealand?

Our infrastructure can handle the RWC as can our hotels. The grounds are there if we want them and we have 11 years to get them up to scratch.

Ultra Vires wrote:people with a can do attitude. Those characteristics are in short supply in Ireland.

From the guy saying we can't do it.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby meinster » February 21st, 2012, 5:58 pm

Ultra Vires wrote:Thats not a good geographical spread.
Don't see that being a big issue (infrastructure and accommodation well spread)

Ultra Vires wrote:The best way to ensure overheads are kept down and to ensure the organisation is as straightforward and uncomplicated as possible is to keep the GAA out of it.
I had an impressive rant written in response to each of your assertions about the GAA. However, I think every single one of them have been proven wrong by the opening of Croke Park. Certainly the main ones were. The GAA didn't change their mind once, there was no heel-dragging (a well publicised process they had to go through to allow the rule change), non-extortionate rents (although hard to compare with a similar context), and no dictating of sill things like stewards and ball boys.

Anyway,I can't see that negotiating with 3 national unions will be easier than negotiating with the GAA on the use of 2-3 of their stadia (or 5 or 6 if we really want options). Especially negotiations involving Wales (who are in a much stronger negotiating position).
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby RichardP » February 21st, 2012, 6:01 pm

"Keep the old fashioned, backward looking, amateurish GAA as far away from this as possible." UV there was a time I might have agreed with you but said organization has a far better developed system of bringing through young players and involving the community than anything in rugby. In addition, despite the reputation of the GAA stadia as being bogholes, the ones mentioned are far better than most rugby grounds were up until very recent times. Apart from TP and Aviva how much better would you really say the others are?
I have no doubt some of the named stadia can use upgrading, something which both RWC and the GAA themselves would probably negotiate and agree well in advance. However, Croke Park, Gaelic Grounds in Limerick, planned upgrades in Cork are all as good as anything in IRFU hands. My recent visits to Thurles suggest the infrastructure surrounding access is more problematic than the stadium itself, yet 10's of thousands flock there several times every summer.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby olaf the fat » February 22nd, 2012, 4:42 pm

Apart from having Paddy Wallace on the bench and Donncha O Callaghan in the 2nd row, who of the current starlets may still be knocking around then? Will any of the current u20, last that long at the rate/intensity of games?
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Golf Man » February 22nd, 2012, 6:14 pm

Ultra Vires wrote:3 of those stadia are in the same city (Dublin).
2 more are in the same city (Limerick).
2 others are in the same city (Belfast).

Thats not a good geographical spread.

The best way to ensure overheads are kept down and to ensure the organisation is as straightforward and uncomplicated as possible is to keep the GAA out of it. They would drag their heels on everything, insist on high rents, then change their minds at the last minute. They are an amateur organisation that happen to own a load of pitches. You can't even ban a violent GAA player without going through 4 committees. Red tape everywhere. It would actually be far less hassle to negotiate and work with the Scottish and Welsh rugby unions. Each country would be responsible for providing say 3 or 4 stadia. Divvy up the group and knock-out matches. One third of the organisation, one third of the cost, pooling of 3 brains trusts who will all be singing from the same hymn sheet. Madness to get the GAA involved. They'd complicate everything - from which ball boys could be used to what tayto crisp flavours would be on sale to which county wouldn't want England playing at their ground. Why would they give favourable rents anyway? They'd want to bleed as much money as possible from the whole thing, and if it doesn't go ahead due to high costs, sure they wouldn't care anyway.

And people can slag off the NZ and Australian stadia but the infrastructure in those countries is excellent. They're well run professional countries inhabited by people with a can do attitude. Those characteristics are in short supply in Ireland. Keep the old fashioned, backward looking, amateurish GAA as far away from this as possible.


Incedibly ignorant post UV

While I don't really think its a runner, I think its more to do with the input required from government than anything else (for example Rome has pulled out of the running for 2020 Olympics for that very reason). There is also an arguement that with Scotland and or Wales its a more attractive bid in some ways.

Your comments on the GAA are desperately ignorant however. There are backwards people in the GAA, same as there are in rugby, but on an organisational level - they are far far superior

An amateur organisation with an 80,000 capacity stadium that is pretty much paid for. We have two professional organisations sharing a ground that one crowd can't afford and the other either can't fill or its too small. Organisation and logistics is what the GAA excel at - have a look at the facilities that clubs (and not only teh big clubs) have - would put most soccer and rugby clubs to shame. Also look at their structures for coaching - take a walk around Bushy Park on a Saturday morning - pretty much every sport being played - the GAA is far and away the best organised, the most kids and the smallest player:coach ratio. As for the blazers - there is plenty of red tape and committees in rugby and soccer as well.

While the GAA are far far from perfect, there is a whole lot to admire and a whole lot to be learned from them
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby MelbourneRebel » February 22nd, 2012, 9:36 pm

Re: government involvement, the UK government would also be invested in the tournament if Northern Ireland was to have 4/5 venues.

You need 11/12 stadia...
http://www.worldstadiums.com/europe/cou ... land.shtml
http://www.worldstadiums.com/europe/cou ... land.shtml

Without GAA (and with investment)
Ulster would need 4/5 stadia. Ravenhill, Windsor, and there are lots of stadia around the 8-10k mark which could be redeveloped.
Then you have Lansdowne, the RDS, Thomond, and we would need to work on another couple of stadia and could give a host venue to Scotland and Wales. Not ideal, but a regular fixture in rugby world cups.

With GAA co-operation Ireland could easily host the Rugby World Cup in whatever geographic spread they want to.
If the GAA would support it, we could pick a host town/city in any county of Ireland we want.

It would be a morale boost the country definitely needs, and it could be a great cross-border initiative.

(Dream world scenario)
Cork: Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Dublin: Lansdowne
Dublin: Croke Park
Galway: Pearse
Killarney: Fitzgerald
Limerick: Musgrave
Belfast: Ravenhill
Omagh: Healy Park
Roscommon: Hyde Park
Thurles: Semple
Wexford: Wexford Park
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby MelbourneRebel » February 22nd, 2012, 10:02 pm

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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Logorrhea » February 23rd, 2012, 11:04 am

I think this is a great idea, but until we hear the Welsh are co-hosting (I'm still kinda suprised they didnt co-host with New Zealand) I wont believe a word of it.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Lar » February 23rd, 2012, 2:20 pm

MelbourneRebel wrote:Re: government involvement, the UK government would also be invested in the tournament if Northern Ireland was to have 4/5 venues.

You need 11/12 stadia...
http://www.worldstadiums.com/europe/cou ... land.shtml
http://www.worldstadiums.com/europe/cou ... land.shtml

Without GAA (and with investment)
Ulster would need 4/5 stadia. Ravenhill, Windsor, and there are lots of stadia around the 8-10k mark which could be redeveloped.
Then you have Lansdowne, the RDS, Thomond, and we would need to work on another couple of stadia and could give a host venue to Scotland and Wales. Not ideal, but a regular fixture in rugby world cups.

With GAA co-operation Ireland could easily host the Rugby World Cup in whatever geographic spread they want to.
If the GAA would support it, we could pick a host town/city in any county of Ireland we want.

It would be a morale boost the country definitely needs, and it could be a great cross-border initiative.

(Dream world scenario)
Cork: Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Dublin: Lansdowne
Dublin: Croke Park
Galway: Pearse
Killarney: Fitzgerald
Limerick: Musgrave
Belfast: Ravenhill
Omagh: Healy Park
Roscommon: Hyde Park
Thurles: Semple
Wexford: Wexford Park


I know Melbourne is a long way away, but the boards need to keep up standards and errors of ANY sort must be pointed out in order that they be eradicated. Has Musgrave Park been moved to Limerick? Has Thomond Park been re-named?
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » February 23rd, 2012, 2:55 pm

So I hear that some of the money from sale of state assets is to go into "job creation" so essentially a few comittees, some fas style thing, and useless training courses that get a few peopkle well rewarded and we'll have not much in terms of jobs or infrastructure out of it I'd imagine.

How about instead of pissing it away it get put into sports/tourism and the development of the required stadium assets in conjunction with GAA and IRFU as and where necessary. The resulting construction jobs, entertainments jobs, sports jobs and infrastructure would be a seriously good tangible investment for the money. The sports infrastructure would benefit the country for the next 100 years.

As for job creation well look at how many people Leinster Rugby, Munster Rugby etc now employ. It's in the 100's and that's just direct employment. Think of knock on effects of stadium employment, the benefits of a venue to local businesses (pubs, shops, hotels etc)

How is a sole bid for 2023 not a win-win for everyone.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby tones » February 23rd, 2012, 10:43 pm

TerenureJim wrote:So I hear that some of the money from sale of state assets is to go into "job creation" so essentially a few comittees, some fas style thing, and useless training courses that get a few peopkle well rewarded and we'll have not much in terms of jobs or infrastructure out of it I'd imagine.

How about instead of pissing it away it get put into sports/tourism and the development of the required stadium assets in conjunction with GAA and IRFU as and where necessary. The resulting construction jobs, entertainments jobs, sports jobs and infrastructure would be a seriously good tangible investment for the money. The sports infrastructure would benefit the country for the next 100 years.

As for job creation well look at how many people Leinster Rugby, Munster Rugby etc now employ. It's in the 100's and that's just direct employment. Think of knock on effects of stadium employment, the benefits of a venue to local businesses (pubs, shops, hotels etc)

How is a sole bid for 2023 not a win-win for everyone.


Same reason why we're obsessed with 10's who can only kick...
"Munster could join the French League, or an expanded English / British league."
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby tones » February 23rd, 2012, 10:46 pm

Golf Man wrote:
Ultra Vires wrote:3 of those stadia are in the same city (Dublin).
2 more are in the same city (Limerick).
2 others are in the same city (Belfast).

Thats not a good geographical spread.

The best way to ensure overheads are kept down and to ensure the organisation is as straightforward and uncomplicated as possible is to keep the GAA out of it. They would drag their heels on everything, insist on high rents, then change their minds at the last minute. They are an amateur organisation that happen to own a load of pitches. You can't even ban a violent GAA player without going through 4 committees. Red tape everywhere. It would actually be far less hassle to negotiate and work with the Scottish and Welsh rugby unions. Each country would be responsible for providing say 3 or 4 stadia. Divvy up the group and knock-out matches. One third of the organisation, one third of the cost, pooling of 3 brains trusts who will all be singing from the same hymn sheet. Madness to get the GAA involved. They'd complicate everything - from which ball boys could be used to what tayto crisp flavours would be on sale to which county wouldn't want England playing at their ground. Why would they give favourable rents anyway? They'd want to bleed as much money as possible from the whole thing, and if it doesn't go ahead due to high costs, sure they wouldn't care anyway.

And people can slag off the NZ and Australian stadia but the infrastructure in those countries is excellent. They're well run professional countries inhabited by people with a can do attitude. Those characteristics are in short supply in Ireland. Keep the old fashioned, backward looking, amateurish GAA as far away from this as possible.


Incedibly ignorant post UV

While I don't really think its a runner, I think its more to do with the input required from government than anything else (for example Rome has pulled out of the running for 2020 Olympics for that very reason). There is also an arguement that with Scotland and or Wales its a more attractive bid in some ways.

Your comments on the GAA are desperately ignorant however. There are backwards people in the GAA, same as there are in rugby, but on an organisational level - they are far far superior

An amateur organisation with an 80,000 capacity stadium that is pretty much paid for. We have two professional organisations sharing a ground that one crowd can't afford and the other either can't fill or its too small. Organisation and logistics is what the GAA excel at - have a look at the facilities that clubs (and not only teh big clubs) have - would put most soccer and rugby clubs to shame. Also look at their structures for coaching - take a walk around Bushy Park on a Saturday morning - pretty much every sport being played - the GAA is far and away the best organised, the most kids and the smallest player:coach ratio. As for the blazers - there is plenty of red tape and committees in rugby and soccer as well.

While the GAA are far far from perfect, there is a whole lot to admire and a whole lot to be learned from them


They gt decent grants or croke park and what is the expense level of an amateur organisation? Also, I have always wondered how well they would have done without the polical and religious backing?

The blazers aren't great but we have taken to professionalism very well as an organisation...with sfa help
"Munster could join the French League, or an expanded English / British league."
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