RWC 2023: Ireland

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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby artaneboy » November 16th, 2017, 12:36 am

kermischocolate wrote:Or, as per the BBC article already linked the SRU did exactly what they said from the very beginning- backed the bid that would guarantee most money to all World Rugby nations.

The RWC is the thing that generates most income for the rest of rugby world-wide. How do you think World Rugby fund any form of "growing the game?" (how well they do that is a completely different debate)

Ireland really need to go back and look at the bid and why it failed on a technical level before flinging toys out of prams and blaming everyone else but themselves.
Gordon D'Arcy did a pretty good job of that 2 weeks ago....https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3275818.

Look it’s understandable that you think this is all about logic. But that’s never true and certainly not in this case.

Rightly or wrongly; naively or reasonably Ireland did expect support from its Celtic League partners.

The fact that the Irish bid- like both of the others had weaknesses, is not the issue. The SRU and WRU made a decision for reasons that make sense to them- but don’t convince many of us here, as being justified, based on the whole of our supposed close association and shared interests.

Now we will undoubtedly, in a certain period, get over the immediate disappointment and bitterness, but don’t think that our view of the relationship with our ‘fellow’ Celtic Unions will be unaffected. This mattered a lot to us and we didn’t get support from those we (maybe foolishly) considered our natural allies.

Combined with the weak-at best; even treacherous to many eyes, behaviour of the other Celtic clubs and unions during the destruction of the ERC, we will need a lot of persuasion to trust either party on an important issue again. And you know there will be one that matters to both Scotland and Wales more than Ireland. Now logic or not- that will stress test a relationship!


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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby dropkick » November 16th, 2017, 2:31 am

kermischocolate wrote:
dropkick wrote:
kermischocolate wrote:Or, as per the BBC article already linked the SRU did exactly what they said from the very beginning- backed the bid that would guarantee most money to all World Rugby nations.

The RWC is the thing that generates most income for the rest of rugby world-wide. How do you think World Rugby fund any form of "growing the game?" (how well they do that is a completely different debate)

Ireland really need to go back and look at the bid and why it failed on a technical level before flinging toys out of prams and blaming everyone else but themselves.
Gordon D'Arcy did a pretty good job of that 2 weeks ago....https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3275818.



Judging by the Scottish vote it had nothing to do with technical details. If Qatar offered £1 more to play it on concrete slab pitches, they would have gotten the Scottish vote because the scots were going with the highest bidder.


And?
If Ireland want to host something of this magnitude the bid simply needs to be better. As does playing the game of politics.



You're talking about improving the technical side of things.


I'm trying to inform you that the scottish didn't care much about the technical side of things. It was more a case of 'show me the money'.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby blockhead » November 16th, 2017, 8:55 am

blockhead wrote:Will the GAA still get all our money?

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/collateral-damage-for-gaa-who-miss-out-on-substantial-cash-boost-36324820.html

But they already squeezed E30M out of us.

The GAA will now have to review its stadium strategy, specifically how to finance developments which are required at several venues.

"Work needs to be done but obviously it will take a lot longer than if the rugby bid had been successful," Duffy added.

One silver lining for the GAA centres on the completion of the Páirc Uí Chaoimh redevelopment, which was awarded €30m in Government funding.

"I'm not sure what level of funding we would have got if the World Cup bid hadn't been on the horizon," said Duffy. The chances are that it would have been considerably less
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » November 16th, 2017, 9:18 am

I think the funding to improve the stadia should continue on the proviso that larger rugby games could be held in some, it'd be great for Munster and cork to see a euro cup knock out game in Cork with 50,000 in the stadium, likewise having a big marquee game in Galway.

There's no reason with some form of funding agreement that some GAA stadia couldn't become semi municipal stadia in the cities/larger towns. Improved facilities would mean improved crowds, which means more money.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby simonokeeffe » November 16th, 2017, 10:22 am

Arent most of the stadia in Argentina crumbly soccer ones?

Gosper seems to have said theyll re evaluate the report criteria and be more open about it but Italy have to be favourites for 2031
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Oldschool » November 16th, 2017, 10:47 am

2019 Japan Second Tier (ST)
2023 France NH
2027 SH
2031 ST North America probably.
2035 NH SOK's Italy could kick in here.
2039 SH

The ST NH SH pattern is starting to develop.
Not a lot of opportunities for the minnow (population wise) first tier countries. At best a combined Celtic Bid.
Argentina might be due a Soccer WC which would give them the infrastructure they would need for a RWC.
Wonder what a RWC in Georgia would be like.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby neiliog93 » November 16th, 2017, 11:03 am

Essentially the only tier one countries who can host the RWC now are France, England, Australia, South Africa and maybe Argentina. Then maybe a couple of the big tier two countries, namely Japan and the USA (possibly with Canada). That's about it.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby nc6000 » November 16th, 2017, 11:36 am

Oldschool wrote:At best a combined Celtic Bid.


After what happened yesterday with the voting? I'd rather see England or France host it again.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Oldschool » November 16th, 2017, 11:47 am

nc6000 wrote:
Oldschool wrote:At best a combined Celtic Bid.


After what happened yesterday with the voting? I'd rather see England or France host it again.

2047 is a long way off.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby paddyor » November 16th, 2017, 12:45 pm

nc6000 wrote:
Oldschool wrote:At best a combined Celtic Bid.


After what happened yesterday with the voting? I'd rather see England or France host it again.

We'd also be crippled by the fact that none of us could vote for it.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby the spoofer » November 16th, 2017, 12:50 pm

Under no circumstance would I support a bid with Scotland and Wales.

We should align ourselves with the English/French and let the others rot.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby matt » November 16th, 2017, 1:18 pm

the spoofer wrote:Under no circumstance would I support a bid with Scotland and Wales.

We should align ourselves with the English/French and let the others rot.


The Welsh and Scottish so called fans cannot be bothered turning up to Pro14 games in the same numbers as Irish people. The Italians did not help us either which is bad considering we have supported 2 lame duck teams in the Pro14 for considerable time now.

No knee jerk reactions but the vote has raised some serious questions.

I think Leinster fans should applaud England's support with 1 minute clapping prior to Leinster v Exeter matches next month.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Dexter » November 16th, 2017, 1:32 pm

the spoofer wrote:
jimbobjoe wrote:Anyway, getting back to the rugby. Hugely disappointed in Scotland and Wales - you'd think that a RWC next door, with same climate, familiar surroundings/culture and likelihood of huge amounts of own supporters attending would've swayed them a bit.


Petty jealousy, they would prefer their own horse to die than their neighbour to have two. The English have always been our friends going back to the 1972/73 situation.

The IRFU have very long memories, and a coldly calculating streak.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby simonokeeffe » November 16th, 2017, 2:03 pm

Wales think theyre entitled to home games every s3cond world cup

Scotland possibly have the stadia from the soccer. More than likely if they tacked on St james and or Wales or Belfast. But they can go fudge themselves now

Threeredkings made a good point of Welsh and Scots hitting a brick over Brexit/currwncy devuation, leading to loss of revenue and Prem targeting their players more as Frenh price them out, so they went for short term optiom rather than the growing the game in their country option
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Laighin Break » November 16th, 2017, 2:35 pm

matt wrote:I think Leinster fans should applaud England's support with 1 minute clapping prior to Leinster v Exeter matches next month.


... seriously?
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby blockhead » November 16th, 2017, 2:38 pm

Laighin Break wrote:
matt wrote:I think Leinster fans should applaud England's support with 1 minute clapping prior to Leinster v Exeter matches next month.


... seriously?


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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 16th, 2017, 6:04 pm

We had an opportunity not so long ago to support a broadcaster proposal for a 2nd Division of 6 Nations.....with a relegation / play-off option. Scotland and Italy had brown trousers at the prospect. But we bottled it, as the opportunity to copper-fasten support from those two for RWC23.

Maybe the next time that comes up, we will vote with Fr and Eng (and the Broadcastor's money) and to hell with Scot, Wal & It. I certainly think we should be confident we would stay in the top tier. Previously, neither Italy or Scotland were confident they could
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby CiaranIrl » November 16th, 2017, 6:10 pm

This thread has gone completely overboard. Wales were perfectly reasonable and rational in voting for the recommended bid. It's entirely possible that they would have voted for us if we weren't the ones eliminated first and SA had been.

Scotland & Italy... We'll I'm more than disappointed there. I definitely felt that if any home nations/pro 14 teams didn't vote for South Africa, then they would vote for us. Having said that, it's pretty over the top to talk about petty revenge acts in the years to come.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » November 16th, 2017, 11:33 pm

Don't think revenge is the way to go here, more play to our strengths and play the waiting game (I know it's less fun than hungry hungry hippos but sure) i.e. next time Pro14 is up for discussion we make sure that the Italians know they'll be cut if they don't support a future RWC bid, and while we're at it we make fall back plans with RFU to join a 16 team prem and leave the Welsh and Scots to have their pro players picked off by the French/English again unless they are tied to support a RWC bid.

We've built the home fan base, we have the stadia and we have the city/regional destination attractiveness that makes us a draw for tv and visiting fans
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby artaneboy » November 17th, 2017, 8:48 am

TerenureJim wrote:Don't think revenge is the way to go here, more play to our strengths and play the waiting game (I know it's less fun than hungry hungry hippos but sure) i.e. next time Pro14 is up for discussion we make sure that the Italians know they'll be cut if they don't support a future RWC bid, and while we're at it we make fall back plans with RFU to join a 16 team prem and leave the Welsh and Scots to have their pro players picked off by the French/English again unless they are tied to support a RWC bid.

We've built the home fan base, we have the stadia and we have the city/regional destination attractiveness that makes us a draw for tv and visiting fans

Sorry- but there’ll be no “next time” for an RWC bid; at least not in the foreseeable future. It’s definitely going South next time and after that in eight years we’ll have the likes of England and, probably the US seeing it as their turn to bid and get our support. The basics in terms of our size and ability to pay the price will not have improved. We cannot justify the investment on stadiums and infrastructure on the gamble we can get the nod. It’s over.

Even if it’s a possibility then, it’s eight years away. The rugby world landscape will be totally changed, will there even be a Pro 14 then? Not to mention the utility of such an approach to pressure the Italians, is unlikely to be effective.

I don’t agree with talks of revenge- that’s self defeating and corrosive of the self. But I do think we need to reflect on the reality of what happened here and park the romantic notions of Ireland being an natural and permanent ally of our Celtic League “partners”. If we get a chance to significantly advance our union and its interest- but that disadvantages the others, let’s be sensible and remember this.


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