RWC 2023: Ireland

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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Golf Man » February 24th, 2012, 1:19 pm

tones wrote:They gt decent grants or croke park and what is the expense level of an amateur organisation? Also, I have always wondered how well they would have done without the polical and religious backing?

The blazers aren't great but we have taken to professionalism very well as an organisation...with sfa help


They really don't get as much help as people make out - couple of major grants in the last ten years or so but apart from that no more or no less than other organisations

What the GAA got right was the redevelopment of Croke Park - think the process started in early 1990's - built a huge stadium with great facilities and owe pretty much nothing on it

The local scene in GAA is the same as the club scene in rugby - costs as much to run a GAA club as it does a rugby club. And in most cases a lot more, if you look at the actual numbers that they have playing. And while rugby has a professional game to support, they also have much greater potential for sponsorship as their game will reach a much wider audience than the GAA

Where the GAA excel themselves is in getting huge local backing - some of this is down to tradition sure, but they are unbelievably well organised and from my experience have more people willing to do more - in rugby and soccer there seems to be a smaller group doing all the work.

And while the IRFU in general have adpated very well to professionalism and in general to suggest that they have got no help is just plain wrong. The taxpayers contribution to Aviva was I think €190m, the tax payers contribution to Croke Park was I think €40m - there would be lottery funding on top of this

Honestly if I was looking to an organisation to organise something and make money out of it - I'd be looking at teh GAA everytime
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby meinster » February 24th, 2012, 2:00 pm

tones wrote:...with sfa help

IRFU gat Dept./Sports Council grants each year. Aviva Stadium also got a decent wedge from the govt. Maybe if you said "significantly less" (but then we've to debate economic times & player numbers), it'd work.

As a professional sports body, IRFU have done very well (despite the perceived out-of-touch and micro-political nature of the blazers).
As an amateur sports body, GAA have done very well (despite .... you get the picture). The only professional comparison within the GAA (that I can think of) are the GPA and Croke Park Stadium Ltd. Both have done very well as professional bodies.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby heno » February 26th, 2012, 2:02 am

The thing that hasnt been said so far is how likely are the IRB going to give us the world cup? The big countries (England France NZ Aus and SA) will demand a world cup every few goes, and the IRB will want to give a tournament to the lesser nations every so often (eg Japan USA Arg). So there are very few opportunites for the likes of ireland, scotland and wales. So im sure the IRB would look a lot more favourably on a combined bid. That way they wont have to worry about the others cribbing if they only give it to one of us.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby MelbourneRebel » February 26th, 2012, 2:25 am

heno wrote:The thing that hasnt been said so far is how likely are the IRB going to give us the world cup? The big countries (England France NZ Aus and SA) will demand a world cup every few goes, and the IRB will want to give a tournament to the lesser nations every so often (eg Japan USA Arg). So there are very few opportunites for the likes of ireland, scotland and wales. So im sure the IRB would look a lot more favourably on a combined bid. That way they wont have to worry about the others cribbing if they only give it to one of us.

If we are capable of hosting it (and that is the question) then it certainly is our turn next time they allocate it to a Europe I would argue.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby heno » February 26th, 2012, 3:03 am

MelbourneRebel wrote:If we are capable of hosting it (and that is the question) then it certainly is our turn next time they allocate it to a Europe I would argue.


Well Scotland last hosted it in 1991 with us and everyone else, so is it their turn as well?

But anyway, my point is these things will be decided on who has the power, and what they think will be the most advantageous to themselves or rugby in general. Not fairness based on every country being equal.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Fireworks » February 26th, 2012, 4:51 pm

Based on my extensive knowledge of bidding for and organising world class sporting events I think we have started correctly by having at least one govement minister talking about it being a good idea. The problem might be that we end up doing nothing for ages then putting in a last minute half assed bid.

I think we should get the relevant bodies in a room and bang some heads to get them to start the planning and the bid now. We can and should do this on our own. The only reason for a joint bid is polotics in getting them to give it to us. If we started developing the potential venues now and build enough momentum and ground level support we could back them in to a corner of having no choice but to give it to us. A well run bid with the full backing of the government, GAA etc would be very strong and good for the country even if we did not get it.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » February 27th, 2012, 3:02 pm

heno wrote:
MelbourneRebel wrote:If we are capable of hosting it (and that is the question) then it certainly is our turn next time they allocate it to a Europe I would argue.


Well Scotland last hosted it in 1991 with us and everyone else, so is it their turn as well?

But anyway, my point is these things will be decided on who has the power, and what they think will be the most advantageous to themselves or rugby in general. Not fairness based on every country being equal.


NZ sort of owe us for gifting them the 2011 when it was headed for Japan. At the end of the day the IRB essentially is the big 8 teams so we have a fairly important say and seem to have a very good relationship with SANZAR voters.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby sheepshagger » August 18th, 2012, 4:00 pm

Seems the IRFU are having preliminary talks with the GAA over ground access....

The Irish Rugby Football Union has confirmed that it has had preliminary discussions with the Gaelic Athletic Association in relation to the availability of GAA grounds as part of a possible Irish bid to host the 2023 Rugby World Cup.

The IRFU fully understands and respects this process and looks forward to the GAA's response in due course, while also acknowledging that any bid would be heavily dependent on support from the Government and the GAA.
The number of stadia that would be required for the tournament has not yet been decided, but a key element will be to establish the number of locations and venues available before a feasibility study is undertaken to determine Ireland's overall capacity to host the tournament.

IRFU Chief Executive Philip Browne said, "The Rugby World Cup in New Zealand showed what a country of four million people could achieve in terms of attracting visitors and showcasing the potential of a country, so an overall Ireland bid is something that the government was keen to discuss with us.

"I think everybody is aware of the benefits from both a social and economic perspective that would come from hosting the third largest sporting event on the globe. We are at the early stages of examining the feasibility of a bid and part of this study is to determine the interest and support of Government and other relevant bodies."

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/26983.php
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby sheepshagger » August 18th, 2012, 4:03 pm

sheepshagger wrote:Seems the IRFU are having preliminary talks with the GAA over ground access....

The Irish Rugby Football Union has confirmed that it has had preliminary discussions with the Gaelic Athletic Association in relation to the availability of GAA grounds as part of a possible Irish bid to host the 2023 Rugby World Cup.

The IRFU fully understands and respects this process and looks forward to the GAA's response in due course, while also acknowledging that any bid would be heavily dependent on support from the Government and the GAA.
The number of stadia that would be required for the tournament has not yet been decided, but a key element will be to establish the number of locations and venues available before a feasibility study is undertaken to determine Ireland's overall capacity to host the tournament.

IRFU Chief Executive Philip Browne said, "The Rugby World Cup in New Zealand showed what a country of four million people could achieve in terms of attracting visitors and showcasing the potential of a country, so an overall Ireland bid is something that the government was keen to discuss with us.

"I think everybody is aware of the benefits from both a social and economic perspective that would come from hosting the third largest sporting event on the globe. We are at the early stages of examining the feasibility of a bid and part of this study is to determine the interest and support of Government and other relevant bodies."

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/26983.php


How the government could afford to bankroll such a bid would be interesting to see, these things don't typically make any money but obviously have longer term benefits. It could help with the thousands of unemployed in the construction industry as infrastructure would need to be created.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » August 19th, 2012, 2:03 pm

sheepshagger wrote:
How the government could afford to bankroll such a bid would be interesting to see, these things don't typically make any money but obviously have longer term benefits. It could help with the thousands of unemployed in the construction industry as infrastructure would need to be created.


I recpectfully disagree about these things not making any money, we already have the infrastructure with roads, hotels, pubs etc ready to go we have quite a few stadia ready to go and the GAA would get some boost in terms of a re-development of the places they'd allow us to possibly kindly use so it's not an Olympics size bid we're talking about here. Plus the numbers of tourists would be huge, it would have the country hopping, and the tax take from the spend surrounding games and any development would be huge benefit to the economy.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Cianostays » August 19th, 2012, 9:28 pm

I'd imagine that our close proximity to Britain (with its significant NZ, Aus and SA ex pat population) and France would give us a pretty decent chance of turning a profit. That would entirely depend on transport and accomodation retailers not gouging tourists.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby IanD » August 20th, 2012, 11:05 am

Central Council explore the possibility of making six GAA stadiums available for future Rugby World Cup bid

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/20 ... n-rwc-bid/

The GAA’s Central Council will ask the 2013 Congress to allow six GAA stadiums to be used for a Rugby World Cup bid by the IRFU.
At the council’s meeting today, it was agreed that six GAA stadiums would be needed for a proposed bid for the 2023 or 2027 competition.
By the council stating their intent, the IRFU can further explore the possibility of tabling a bid for the tournament.
The IRFU has also confirmed that it has had preliminary discussions with the GAA regarding the availability of GAA grounds for a bid for the 2023 RWC.
Irish rugby's governing body has also acknowledged that a bid for international Test rugby's showpiece event would be dependent on support from the Government and GAA.
The number of stadiums needed to host the event has not yet been finalised. The 2011 Rugby World Cup in New Zealand used 12 stadiums, as will the 2015 Rugby World Cup in England.
The 2019 Rugby World Cup plans to use 11 stadiums, with two in foreign territories, one in Singapore and one in Hong Kong.
IRFU chief executive Philip Browne said: “The Rugby World Cup in New Zealand showed what a country of four million people could achieve in terms of attracting visitors and showcasing the potential of a country, so an overall Ireland bid is something that the government was keen to discuss with us.
“I think everybody is aware of the benefits from both a social and economic perspective that would come from hosting the third largest sporting event on the globe.
"We are at the early stages of examining the feasibility of a bid and part of this study is to determine the interest and support of Government and other relevant bodies.”
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Fireworks » August 20th, 2012, 11:16 am

This is great news if the vote goes the right way. If we could host it on our own it would be huge and I see no reason it could not be profitable. There are benefits to the GAA in getting grounds upgradedand to the country in profile and finances. Also it should excite our soccer friends as if it went well it may open the possib :happy clapper: ility of e European cup bid.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby domhnallj » August 20th, 2012, 11:29 am

Can't see any reason the GAA won't go for it. I was in Croke Park yesterday and there were loads of spare seats; tickets were being given away outside for nothing. Since the rugby and soccer were financially successful they will want a piece of the action (either that or they are completely mad).
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » August 20th, 2012, 1:25 pm

It'd be a great way to showcase the country by having games down in Tip, Sligo, Kerry obviously have the North on board (and UK funding) for Derry & Belfast (and possibly Tyrone or Armagh I guess). And where GAA stadia are used for the GAA to showcase the magnificent sports they run. I cannot for the life of me see how anyone can really argue against this given the relatively little infrastructure investment required and that any new/re-developed stadia would benefit the GAA and potentially rugby and soccer long term.

It's not like we're talking about building a 20,000 seater velodrome or pool that'll be used for two weeks and never again.

This thing has potential to be an economic miracle of it's own and provide a serious lasting legacy of sports facilites to be used by pros and amateurs as well as where possible third and second level education failites.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Dexter » August 20th, 2012, 4:31 pm

TerenureJim wrote:It'd be a great way to showcase the country by having games down in Tip, Sligo, Kerry obviously have the North on board (and UK funding) for Derry & Belfast (and possibly Tyrone or Armagh I guess). And where GAA stadia are used for the GAA to showcase the magnificent sports they run. I cannot for the life of me see how anyone can really argue against this given the relatively little infrastructure investment required and that any new/re-developed stadia would benefit the GAA and potentially rugby and soccer long term.

It's not like we're talking about building a 20,000 seater velodrome or pool that'll be used for two weeks and never again.

This thing has potential to be an economic miracle of it's own and provide a serious lasting legacy of sports facilites to be used by pros and amateurs as well as where possible third and second level education failites.

Agree it makes a lot of sense.. but this is Ireland we're talking about. At the moment I have particularly jaundiced views on our organisational abilities, ability to use common sense and ability to garner co-operation between organisations without having a big show-stopper argument...
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Cianostays » August 20th, 2012, 7:00 pm

Can't imagine that this will be a problem (as far as the GAA granting permission to use the grounds goes). The timing of a RWC would be the quieter time of the year for the grounds in question.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby locho » August 20th, 2012, 8:54 pm

Cianostays wrote:Can't imagine that this will be a problem (as far as the GAA granting permission to use the grounds goes). The timing of a RWC would be the quieter time of the year for the grounds in question.


Eh i'm pretty sure that the RWC is a 6 week tournament that begins in September, now correct me if i'm wrong but the biggest games of the GAA Calendar just happen to fall on the 1st and 3rd weekends of September?!?

There are also Camogie finals, ladies football finals etc that all take place in Croke Park during weekends in September, so might run into issues using Croke Park for some of the early Group Games.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Peg Leg » August 21st, 2012, 8:37 am

locho wrote:
Cianostays wrote:Can't imagine that this will be a problem (as far as the GAA granting permission to use the grounds goes). The timing of a RWC would be the quieter time of the year for the grounds in question.


Eh i'm pretty sure that the RWC is a 6 week tournament that begins in September, now correct me if i'm wrong but the biggest games of the GAA Calendar just happen to fall on the 1st and 3rd weekends of September?!?

There are also Camogie finals, ladies football finals etc that all take place in Croke Park during weekends in September, so might run into issues using Croke Park for some of the early Group Games.

Those matches will be in croker, that leaves the other 5 venues available for use!
Also, wasn't croker used for rugby and soccer on the weekend of the last Aussie home game?
Plus, what a time to be hosting the GAA finals.... with the worlds press in tow!!
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby MelbourneRebel » August 21st, 2012, 8:44 am

Only once has a Rugby World Cup in Europe clashed overlapped the GAA calendar.
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