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Sevens

Postby simonokeeffe » February 6th, 2013, 5:32 pm

Keeping the talented youngsters would be another thing a national 7's team would achieve, one should have been built just for Conway, gives these guys gametime and has them scoring tries and developing skills/confidence
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby RavenhillRaider » February 6th, 2013, 5:53 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:Keeping the talented youngsters would be another thing a national 7's team would achieve, one should have been built just for Conway, gives these guys gametime and has them scoring tries and developing skills/confidence
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done


+1

Cant understand the negitivity on here about a sevens team.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Dave Cahill » February 6th, 2013, 6:02 pm

RavenhillRaider wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Keeping the talented youngsters would be another thing a national 7's team would achieve, one should have been built just for Conway, gives these guys gametime and has them scoring tries and developing skills/confidence
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done


+1

Cant understand the negitivity on here about a sevens team.


Its very simple. Its a waste of money spent on what is at best only a tiny subset of the game that is utterly unrecoverable and is of no real benefit to actual rugby.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby AdamK » February 6th, 2013, 6:30 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
RavenhillRaider wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Keeping the talented youngsters would be another thing a national 7's team would achieve, one should have been built just for Conway, gives these guys gametime and has them scoring tries and developing skills/confidence
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done


+1

Cant understand the negitivity on here about a sevens team.


Its very simple. Its a waste of money spent on what is at best only a tiny subset of the game that is utterly unrecoverable and is of no real benefit to actual rugby.


Plenty of internationals have come through the sevens circuit.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby simonokeeffe » February 6th, 2013, 6:48 pm

that Cuthbert lad at the weekend looked ok :)
you want to be ruthless its good for tying players to Ireland rather than other countries

I would look at this for 7's usefullness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ne ... sentatives
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Dave Cahill » February 6th, 2013, 7:11 pm

AdamK wrote:Plenty of internationals have come through the sevens circuit.


No, plenty of internationals have played on the sevens circuit. Theres no proof or correlation that sevens had anything to do with them being or becoming internationals. There are an exponentially larger number of international players who never went next nor near to sevens.

Put it this way. Say we'd joined the world 7s circuit from the get go, spent millions on it. How would that have helped us last year in Twickenham when Mike Ross got injured? How would sevens have helped us develop a player for the most important position on the pitch? The answer is it wouldn't. Because sevens is of no use whatsoever in the real game. How many props or hookers or locks play sevens? Virtually none. Who creates the platform that games are won upon? Props, Hookers and locks.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Dave Cahill » February 6th, 2013, 7:13 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:that Cuthbert lad at the weekend looked ok :)
you want to be ruthless its good for tying players to Ireland rather than other countries

I would look at this for 7's usefullness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ne ... sentatives



Salve Tokula is on that list. He certainly looked like a player well prepared for the step up to international rugby.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Flash Gordon » February 6th, 2013, 10:25 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
RavenhillRaider wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Keeping the talented youngsters would be another thing a national 7's team would achieve, one should have been built just for Conway, gives these guys gametime and has them scoring tries and developing skills/confidence
A Dublin leg of world series would pay for it and would be easily done


+1

Cant understand the negitivity on here about a sevens team.


Its very simple. Its a waste of money spent on what is at best only a tiny subset of the game that is utterly unrecoverable and is of no real benefit to actual rugby.


Absolutely, there's a finite pot in the IRFU budget that is well outstretched. So that means, the money has to come from an existing budget, like the budget for Leinster for example. Do I want to diminish our ability to keep our squad competitive further to develop a 7's game? Absolutely not!
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby neiliog93 » February 7th, 2013, 1:39 am

i think it's important that Ireland put money into their sevens programme now that rugby has been accepted as an olympic sport in sevens form. The game could grow quickly as a result, with some murmurings even suggesting it might eventually overtake the 15-man game in terms of global popularity (I don't agree with that, but the point is that it's certainly going to grow). We want to put in a respectable showing at the Olympics, and that involves investment.

There's also no doubt that a year or two of sevens rugby would have developed the likes of Conway more quickly than sitting on bench at Leinster. I agree with Dave's point about it not being effective for developing tight-five forwards, but it's definitely good for exposing outside-backs to a high intensity game and improving their skills. We're the only major rugby nation not to have a permanent sevens team, and I think there's definitely scope and obvious benefit in investing more in sevens rugby.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby simonokeeffe » February 7th, 2013, 1:59 am

Like I said, Dublin leg of 7's world series would pay for it or go a long way to pay for it
We've got IRB, RWC, ERC based here so should be arrangeable
Dublin easy as hell to pimp out as a (rugby)(weekend) destination, might even get a gov subsidy if we're bringing in 25k tourists

Pretty obvious we wouldnt get front 5 forwards out of it, but its good exposure for guys 6-15 and is better standard than most of what the sub academy guys at very least would be playing.

Would be great for confidence (not to mention skills) of guys like Conway (who people keep saying has been post injury low on confidence), Hanrahan, SCM, O'Dea etc if theyre running in buckets of tries, helpful if theyre coming back from injury
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby [Jackass] » February 7th, 2013, 2:37 am

If a 7's team could break even it might be worth looking in to purely for entertainment purposes, but to be honest it's just a luxury and an exhibition sport, there's no real benefit to be had from it. In fact, it may even be damaging for players from the 15 man game to get used to stretching their legs in so much space and then coming back to the 15 man game and losing their eye for a small gap or a clever pass. It's about as plausable as any benefit players could get from it anyway.

If it was to lose a single cent of IRFU money then it's no way near worth it, and it wouldn't come close to breaking even as it is under any professional format - and I would imagine that even if Dublin got a leg of the 7's circuit it would only pay "royalties" of sorts, a fraction of the profits.

It's a hybrid, like rugby league, it's not the same sport.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Dave Cahill » February 7th, 2013, 10:06 am

neiliog93 wrote:i think it's important that Ireland put money into their sevens programme now that rugby has been accepted as an olympic sport in sevens form. The game could grow quickly as a result, with some murmurings even suggesting it might eventually overtake the 15-man game in terms of global popularity (I don't agree with that, but the point is that it's certainly going to grow). We want to put in a respectable showing at the Olympics, and that involves investment.

There's also no doubt that a year or two of sevens rugby would have developed the likes of Conway more quickly than sitting on bench at Leinster. I agree with Dave's point about it not being effective for developing tight-five forwards, but it's definitely good for exposing outside-backs to a high intensity game and improving their skills. We're the only major rugby nation not to have a permanent sevens team, and I think there's definitely scope and obvious benefit in investing more in sevens rugby.


Lets clear one thing up. Rugby is not an Olympic sport. A small subset of the game is. Its like if basketball were replaced at the Olympics with 1on1s or Soccer with 5-a-side football. Its completely meaningless. The Rugby World Cup is our major event, the Olympics are just a sideshow, the games will not get any front channel coverage outside of the already existing rugby countries.

There is every doubt that Conway would have developed more quickly, theres no proof of that. Its like saying that one can become a better pianist if one practices using only the black keys. In order to become a top rugby player there are a huge number of skills to master, and Sevens obviates the need for most of them.

The idea that participating in sevens will improve the country at the real sport simply doesn't hold water. Fiji have progressively gotten worse over the years, Kenya have made no impression at all, and Scotland, the home of sevens, the european country that plays the most sevens out of any, are a rabble.

Sevens has its place, its the wind up radio of rugby. You use it in developing nations (in a rugby sense) but as soon as the infrastructure is built up, you get rid of it. The IRB has erred here by allowing the likes of Kenya and Fiji divert money away from the sport into the sideshow.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Dave Cahill » February 7th, 2013, 10:13 am

simonokeeffe wrote:Like I said, Dublin leg of 7's world series would pay for it or go a long way to pay for it


You're basing that on what? Sevens rugby doesn't make money. Even Fiji, the Brazil of Sevens, need an IRB subvention to participate, and they're the star attraction.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby tate » February 7th, 2013, 10:32 am

Think you're underestimating the lure of the Olympics there Dave, it is a massive draw and for unions in non-traditional countries it opens up funding they simply would never otherwise get.

I'm in Hungary at the moment and the union here are pushing 7's as the way to go. It's evolving into a different beast, no longer for tournaments you played at the end of a season but it's own sport with it's own fans. And in countries where player numbers are low it's the perfect middle ground.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Aussiedub » February 7th, 2013, 10:43 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Like I said, Dublin leg of 7's world series would pay for it or go a long way to pay for it


You're basing that on what? Sevens rugby doesn't make money. Even Fiji, the Brazil of Sevens, need an IRB subvention to participate, and they're the star attraction.



Australia fund their 7's team from holding the Gold Coast Tournament so there is no reason Ireland can't do the same.....

Fiji don't hold their own tournament that's why they need funding...
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby CiaranIrl » February 7th, 2013, 10:45 am

There's no way this could be in a 7s thread, no?
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby blockhead » February 7th, 2013, 10:48 am

Rugby is dancing with the devil when it deals with the Olympic movement. If 7s takes off in the Olympics then it could easily become the only rugby played in these so called developing nations. 15 man rugby would be stillborn and rugby as we know it would struggle to break any new ground.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 7th, 2013, 11:11 am

CiaranIrl wrote:There's no way this could be in a 7s thread, no?


Or other sports or general chat given that it has nothing to do with rugby?

I enjoy watching the odd 7s game but I don't want us to commit any money to it and really don't see the development benefits. The only thing I'd be in favour of is if it took over/ran alongside social TAG rugby in the summer.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Dave Cahill » February 7th, 2013, 11:23 am

Aussiedub wrote:

Australia fund their 7's team from holding the Gold Coast Tournament so there is no reason Ireland can't do the same.....



No they don't, like every other tournament its getting a wedge from the IRB to offset losses because its doing a missionary job, the Gold Coast is the current site where Union and League are doing battle to break out of their Sydney strongholds, thats why the tournament was moved from Adelaide.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby papachino » February 7th, 2013, 11:47 am

Lads( Ladies ? ), "Rumor Mill" not general discussion mill !!
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