Transition?

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » March 8th, 2006, 1:51 pm

Irish uncertainty down to 'transition'
Wednesday March 08 2006
O'Sullivan happy with progress
Ireland coach Eddie O'Sullivan has responded to criticism of Ireland's lacklustre Six Nations campaign by claiming they are a team in transition.

Victory over Scotland would keep Irish title hopes alive until the last round of matches on March 18, when they must travel to Twickenham in the final fixture of the 2006 championship.

But while Brian O'Driscoll's men may scent glory, they have rarely hit top gear so far with their final quarter display against France the only evidence of their enormous potential.

They were dire against Italy, blundered horribly in the opening 60 minutes in Paris and failed to put Wales to the sword with the 31-5 final scoreline doing scant justice to their superiority.

Former Scotland coach Matt Williams has been one of the critics to voice his concern over Ireland's "frustrating" performances, but O'Sullivan has hit back by calling for patience.

"It has been said that we are not fulfilling our potential. My answer to that is we are a team in transition. We started the transition last autumn and it is still a work in progress," he said.

"I would love it if the job was done and we were firing on all cylinders. But we are a year and half from the World Cup and have made eight changes from this time last year.

"I don't know any team that has been firing on all cylinders in the Six Nations at the moment. We are not much different to anybody else in that respect.

"Every team is in transition for the World Cup. The other thing is the championship has got tighter. There are no whipping boys any more, Italy have proved that.

"Defences have dominated and it has got harder to score and it is a tougher competition to win.

"We already know three games in there will be no Grand Slam this year. No team is playing out of their skin, maybe only Scotland."

The second of Ireland's Triple Crown matches promises to be a belter, taking on the appearance of a semi-final with the winners still in the title frame for the last round of matches.

Ireland's destiny remains in their own hands with victory over Frank Hadden's Scotland, who are also contenders, setting up a potential winner-takes-all clash with England.

Dispatching the Scots will be a formidable task - even allowing for their run of eight years without victory in Dublin - and O'Sullivan is expecting a more structured contest than against Wales.

"Scotland play a slightly different game to Wales. They use the outside channels but not as often or as frequently as Wales," he said.

"They are more inclined to play a kicking game with Dan Parks at fly-half. He kicks the ball at the right time, so it is a more balanced game whereas Wales tend to run an awful lot of the ball.

"They are a difficult team to play because of the balance they have got and that has been reflected in the success they have had this year.

"Their defence has been outstanding - very aggressive, very organised and they have created a lot of turnovers at the ruck area."

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » March 8th, 2006, 1:54 pm

Seems to be a collective spin coming from Eddie's camp that are were in transition.......as far as I'm aware, we are due to win the championship this year according to the objectives......

Sounds a bit like getting excuses in early......

As for the concept itself, not exactly sure what "transition" means, there is much less disruption within the team Ireland camp than other 6 nations teams, so I'm struggling to understand the idea.....

glic · Post by **glic** » March 8th, 2006, 2:17 pm

Has eddie stayed in contact with Alistair Campbell??? This is the type of spinning you'd epect from the likes of him.
How can this be a "team in transition". He's using the same players that have been in the squad for the last few seasons (with a couple of exceptions). OK the team seems to be trying to change the type of gameplan it works from but shouldn't professional players be able to do this on a regular basis without the need for a transition

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » March 8th, 2006, 2:27 pm

This plus the post France game bullshoite are very Campbell-esque....Bod seems to be a convert to the cause too.....

I really don't understand how he can get away with that kind of statement.....this team is well established. Very well established.

CM · Post by CM » March 8th, 2006, 2:36 pm

as far as I'm aware, we are due to win the championship this year according to the objectives......

Not true.

Duff Paddy · Post by **Duff Paddy** » March 8th, 2006, 2:42 pm

I don't like spin in general, especially when it's so blatently obviously aimed at protecting EOS's neck. Ireland still working off the out dated paradigm that we should peak for the World Cup - something that I have always argued against. I think it's fair enough to say that Ireland are a team in transition at the moment, but then again, if we had blooded new players continuously, we wouldn't be in this situation. Bottom line is that the performances need to pick up. Until that happens, no amount of spin will work.

Leinsterman · Post by **Leinsterman** » March 8th, 2006, 2:42 pm

Compare the starting XV for most of Ireland's games last year to this year....

Corrigan: gone
Byrne: gone
Gleeson/O'Connor: not starting
Foley: gone
Hickie: gone
Maggs: gone
Dempsey: bench

Quite a reasonable change in personnel there - I'd call that "transition". I know the replacements have plenty of experience but not in playing a full 80 minutes of test rugby against the bigger nations.

CM · Post by CM » March 8th, 2006, 2:53 pm

I don't like spin in general, especially when it's so blatently obviously aimed at protecting EOS's neck.

It's not spin and it's not protecting his neck. EOS clearly has the backing, rightly or wrongly, of the players and Union for this year's step back. He's just telling it as it is. Whether you think we should be taking the step back is a completely different argument.

I think it's fair enough to say that Ireland are a team in transition at the moment, but then again, if we had blooded new players continuously, we wouldn't be in this situation.

If it was just a change in personnel that was being used as an excuse then that's not valid but he's changed both personnel and style which means that even if it was the same 22 we'd still be taking a small step back. Either way EOS does have too narrow a squad in mind, or at least did in the past, I think he's more open to change than he used to be but still doesn't seem to rate form highly. In one way I can understand this as form is temporary and teams need to be built but it's still frustrating, especially the selection against Romania.

Bottom line is that the performances need to pick up.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » March 8th, 2006, 4:40 pm

CM wrote:
as far as I'm aware, we are due to win the championship this year according to the objectives......
Not true.

We are due to win the championship by 2007. Correct or not?

CM · Post by CM » March 8th, 2006, 5:06 pm

We are due to win the championship by 2007. Correct or not?

Our objective is to win one championship between the 4 seasons running from 04/05 to 07/08. So he's two more chances after this one.

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » March 8th, 2006, 5:13 pm

Leinsterman wrote:Compare the starting XV for most of Ireland's games last year to this year....

Corrigan: gone
Byrne: gone
Gleeson/O'Connor: not starting
Foley: gone
Hickie: gone
Maggs: gone
Dempsey: bench

Quite a reasonable change in personnel there - I'd call that "transition". I know the replacements have plenty of experience but not in playing a full 80 minutes of test rugby against the bigger nations.

Corrigan - played this year, still available
Byrne - available but admitedly crocked, Flannery looks an able replacement
Gleeson - available, EOS chosing not to pick the best number 7 in the business
Foley - available - EOS chosing not to pick him
O'Connor - available- EOS chosing not to pick
Hickie - available - class replacement in Trimble
Maggs - not first choice last year, current options FAR superior
Dempsey - available and playing best rugby in his life, not selected.

Eddie has changed some selections with players who are still available - some of those selctions go against strong viewpoints of expert analysts. That's his choice.

Furthermore, anybody who thinks changing personnel is a perculiarly Irish phenomenum should look at the other 6 nations teams. We all saw a decimated Wales in LR - Wales and Italy have new coaches.....line up changes - look at the French team that played us this year vs last year.... only 3 players playing in the same position!!!!!

15 J Laharrague Dominici;
14 C Heymans Rougerie
13 Y Jauzion Fritz
12 B Baby Marty
11 C Dominici Heymans
10 Y Delaigue Michalak
9 D Yachvili Elissalde;
8 J Bonnaire , Bonnaire
7 Y Nyanga Magne
6 S Betsen Nyanga
5 J Thion Thion
4 F Pelous (capt.) Pelous
3 N Mas De Villiers;
2 S Bruno Ibanez,
1 S Marconnet Milloud

We are playing at home against a team we thumped last year (AWAY), we have a full squad available - no significant injuries assuming POC recovers - we are playing a team ranked lower than us and we are at home. anything other than victory is COMPLETELY unacceptable.

epaddy · Post by **epaddy** » March 8th, 2006, 5:15 pm

Flsh no one said it was not Eddies choice to rebuild. A very good choice

CM · Post by CM » March 8th, 2006, 5:18 pm

anything other than victory is COMPLETELY unacceptable.

I don' t think anyone would disagree with that. A bit harsh on Scotland who are much better than last year but this team has not regressed that far so we should be expecting to win at home against the likes of Scotland, even if they were much better. To be honest only a defeat to NZ is currently an acceptable home defeat.

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » March 8th, 2006, 8:23 pm

CM wrote:
anything other than victory is COMPLETELY unacceptable.
I don' t think anyone would disagree with that. A bit harsh on Scotland who are much better than last year but this team has not regressed that far so we should be expecting to win at home against the likes of Scotland, even if they were much better. To be honest only a defeat to NZ is currently an acceptable home defeat.

Bloody hell......I agree with that.....

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » March 8th, 2006, 8:34 pm

CM wrote:
We are due to win the championship by 2007. Correct or not?
Our objective is to win one championship between the 4 seasons running from 04/05 to 07/08. So he's two more chances after this one.

The plan says "by 2007". The 2008 6 Nations would therefore be out of scope for the objectives.....

epaddy · Post by **epaddy** » March 8th, 2006, 8:43 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:
CM wrote:
We are due to win the championship by 2007. Correct or not?
Our objective is to win one championship between the 4 seasons running from 04/05 to 07/08. So he's two more chances after this one.
The plan says "by 2007". The 2008 6 Nations would therefore be out of scope for the objectives.....

Why dont we start a thread dedicated to debating that point up time after time

upfront_1979 · Post by **upfront_1979** » March 8th, 2006, 10:40 pm

epaddy wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:
CM wrote: Our objective is to win one championship between the 4 seasons running from 04/05 to 07/08. So he's two more chances after this one.
The plan says "by 2007". The 2008 6 Nations would therefore be out of scope for the objectives.....
Why dont we start a thread dedicated to debating that point up time after time

CM v FG quick type posts at 20 spaces. Would you like to name your seconds?

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » March 8th, 2006, 11:10 pm

upfront_1979 wrote:
epaddy wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote: The plan says "by 2007". The 2008 6 Nations would therefore be out of scope for the objectives.....
Why dont we start a thread dedicated to debating that point up time after time
CM v FG quick type posts at 20 spaces. Would you like to name your seconds?

Isn't the point of a messageboard to discuss? I think the discussions are pretty good to be honest, nobody's getting abusive or aggressive, they tend to be (vaguely) fact driven.....Eddie.....sorry CM

Has his view and I have mine. Nothing wrong with that!

jezzer · Post by **jezzer** » March 9th, 2006, 9:24 am

Flash Gordon wrote:look at the French team that played us this year vs last year.... only 3 players playing in the same position!!!!!

Yeah, and look how well they're playing! Laporte is clinically insane, so he doesn't count as a benchmark...

We are going through a form of "transition". What kind of term you want to put to it is semantics. Having worked to a route 1 plan which was reasonably successful, suited the skills of our pack and halfbacks (if not our outside backs, who happened to be our most valuable asset), we are now almost abandoning the formula used over 4 seasons for a different playing style that needs different players, skills and tactics.

Why you would want to attack EOS for that is a bit strange when there are much more clear-cut failures on his part - he made the change 2 seasons too late, he has selected the wrong players for the job, he has no coach for the area we can do the most potential damage (backs), he doesn't communicate with the provinces, his selection conservatism and misuse of the bench hamper emerging player development, but most of all....

the vast majority of rugby coaches, analysts and fans (amazingly now including Frank Hadden in the week before a game with Scotland) believe he has failed to extract the potential from the players at his disposal.

Flash Gordon · Post by **Flash Gordon** » March 9th, 2006, 9:50 am

jezzer wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:look at the French team that played us this year vs last year.... only 3 players playing in the same position!!!!!
Yeah, and look how well they're playing! Laporte is clinically insane, so he doesn't count as a benchmark...

We are going through a form of "transition". What kind of term you want to put to it is semantics. Having worked to a route 1 plan which was reasonably successful, suited the skills of our pack and halfbacks (if not our outside backs, who happened to be our most valuable asset), we are now almost abandoning the formula used over 4 seasons for a different playing style that needs different players, skills and tactics.

Why you would want to attack EOS for that is a bit strange when there are much more clear-cut failures on his part - he made the change 2 seasons too late, he has selected the wrong players for the job, he has no coach for the area we can do the most potential damage (backs), he doesn't communicate with the provinces, his selection conservatism and misuse of the bench hamper emerging player development, but most of all....

the vast majority of rugby coaches, analysts and fans (amazingly now including Frank Hadden in the week before a game with Scotland) believe he has failed to extract the potential from the players at his disposal.

I agree that Laporte is not the man to manage the French team - I thought that the year he was appointed.....despite that he has still managed to beat us home and away in successive seasons.....I actually picked France at random....could have chosen Wales....or Scotland etc The point was that transition is a natural part of international rugby. In my view the job of a coach is to manage transition successfully and to use friendly games and less risky games to build depth.

On the playing style, you're right. But I'm not sure that we have the players to play the game plan. If you want to keep ball in hand and play a Leinster style backline game plan, I don't think you can do it with slow, ponderous ball - currently we have the wrong backrow in place to play that game and the half backs are definitely out of their depth for this plan in my view.....